User talk:Cokaban

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Hello Cokaban, and Welcome to Wikipedia! Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username and the date. Also, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! VanTucky Talk 20:42, 13 November 2007 (UTC) Getting started Introduction The five pillars of Wikipedia How to edit a page Finding your way around Table of contents Department directory Editing articles How to develop an article Manual of Style Getting help Frequently asked questions Cheatsheet Where to ask a question Help pages New contributors' help page How you can help Contributing to Wikipedia Community Portal Follow Wikipedia etiquette Practice civility

Contents 1 Initial context setting 2 Hello 3 Interpretation (logic) 4 My User Page

[edit] Initial context setting

The following is a really bad way to start an article:

Consider two structures M and N, possibly of different signatures.

You haven't told the lay reader who finds this article whether this is supposed to be about, e.g. the building of houses ("structures"), organizations (a church council or a commercial firm is a "structure"), etc. That this is supposed to be about mathematical logic needs to be said in a way that the non-mathematician will understand immediately. Michael Hardy (talk) 13:08, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

You are absolutely right, can you do it for me, please? :) The only thing i can say in my defence is that i did link the word structure, so the reader had a chance... --Cokaban (talk) 13:17, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hello

I am very glad to see that we have a new active model theory editor. I am sorry that you have run into Gregbard with your first mathematical article – but then, this kind of encounter adds the MMORPG dimension to Wikipedia that makes it so addictive. --Hans Adler (talk) 17:43, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

I know I'm terrible! Can it. I tell you what Hans, I think you are all right in general, but I don't like your style. Furthermore, you and the other mathematicians seem determined to close your minds to covering even the most basic philosophical background for these concepts. That's what philosophers call being anti-intellectual and unreflective. If you don't understand something intellectually, you don't understand it AT ALL. At least I am capable of deferring to experts in their own areas. I've been patient with you guys up to now. Step off. Pontiff Greg Bard (talk) 09:25, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Hello Pontiff Greg Bard, thanks for visiting my User Page. (Thanks to Hans Adler too.) I will respond here to one of the questions/assertions you made elsewhere, and hope that you will be able to answer the others yourself. Here we go: I did not try to beat you up --- my main (and maybe even only?) goal was to get trough to you. --Cokaban (talk) 10:19, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Okay, lets take it easy on each other. My goal in creating that article was to cover the concept of "one person has a different interpretation of things than another" Here I am thinking that people of all kinds might be able to benefit from it. Maybe two regular people having a disagreement could be able to map it out and have some understanding. The goal of these editors seems to be that it will only be useful and understandable to mathematicians. So can you see why I would be very upset over all of this. I think you need to think about the needs of the whole community over the very limited interests of the math department. Pontiff Greg Bard (talk) 10:28, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Interpretation (logic)

Please look at new lede of interpretation (logic) and make any comments at new section at end of 50 pages of discussion. Bless,--Philogo 00:28, 8 May 2008 (UTC)--Philogo 00:29, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I would like to give a short disclaimer first. I cannot really judge if the lede or Interpretation (logic) is good, because i do not know neither what Logic is, nor what Philosophy is. I am only somewhat familiar with common layman usage of these words. I only know what Mathematical Logic is, and i am familiar with some basics of it. I can think of a few non-mathematical interpretations of Mathematical Logic (yet another meaning of interpretation :) ), and it seems that this is the kind of logic the article/lede is currently about. I also understand the phrase "common-sense logic". The phrase "philosophical logic" evokes some associations, but nothing clear. I will try to be useful however. --Cokaban (talk) 11:16, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

The article and other under the logic banner will be sucessful for the intended audience, therefore, if you for instance come to understand the terms you mentione and any other used in the article(s). If you do not unerstand the terms used then we might just as well write the articles in double-dutch for all the purpose they would serve. (Do we have a little template thingy that says "Definition needed" like the "citation needed" one?) I have been banging on for some time about the need to be both precise and clear and suitable for the intended audience, the latter not being professional mathematicians, logicans, or philosophers. You then are the best judge of that. If you look at my discussion page, I have a message from a reader who said how clear and helful were the logic articles she had read. That is praise indeed, and more liek that are sought.--Philogo 13:40, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] My User Page

Why there is nothing on my User Page? This is the simplest way i could find to have my name in red.