User talk:Cgoodwin

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Contents 1 Safety Articles 2 Aussie saddles 3 Invite 4 The Tail of the ACD 5 Welcome to Wikipedia:WikiProject Agriculture 6 Perlino/Cremello 7 Tildes 8 Sheep 9 FYI 10 Tasmanian Grey 11 Fact tagging 12 Calling for backup 13 Good work 14 That long single rope thing 15 Thoroughbreds 16 Bridle 17 Not sure you even want to wade in, but... 18 Article importance scale for WikiProject Equine 19 Linguistics? 20 Fiador (tack) 21 Cheekers, Tack, English, etc 22 Frentera 23 Cheeker or cheekers 24 Want to peek at another article? 25 Walcha Road 26 Digging 27 Half breed saddle 28 Thanks rewarded by more work 29 Polocrosse 30 Posting canter 31 TB edit 32 Chaps question 33 Protected areas of New South Wales 34 Thoroughbred 35 Crabbet 36 SAMM 37 Encyc cites? 38 Aussie Ponies 39 Thoroughbred 40 Barnstar 41 Whoo! 42 Your unjustified reversion

[edit] Safety Articles

I would like to see articles made on horse and/or riding safety and also on "quad" ATV usage. Recently there has been a death in our area and a very serious injury from these machines. These riders were mature age women in contrast from the usual younger riders in other countries. I could assist with info on horses, but know little about "quads". Cgoodwin 00:55, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Note: Equestrian helmet. Needs more wikilinking! Montanabw^(talk) 04:47, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

---

Liked your contributions to the Australian horse articles, I did a little bit of editing and formatting of your material (cause I am a compulsive wordsmith and also promote wikilinks to some of the articles in here --some aren't always easy to find), but really appreciate what you added, particularly the photos. I would encourage you to upload them to Wikipedia Commons, ( commons.wikimedia.org ) where they can be made available to all other wiki projects, such as the wikipedias in other languages. I added your photo Image:Stock Horse ready for work.jpg, to the Australian Stock Saddle article, too. By the way, that is also an article that needs some work--compared to western saddle and English saddle, it is quite sparse, if you can add useful information, that would be great. Montanabw^(talk) 21:39, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Aussie saddles

I am going to move your comment on my talk page over to the talk page for the article to make it into a "sandbox" for fiddling with until it is good enough to merge into the article.

When I was down in AU last year, I noticed that Wintec is producing a "swinging fender" model that is basically the stirrup and fender of a western saddle on an otherwise Aussie tree. Found them comfortable to sit. I also saw some hybrid models with Aussie pommels on a western tree--didn't like those at all. Most of the aussie saddles that get to the states are el cheapos that pinch you in the thighs and rub on the calves pretty bad. A section on how to select a good saddle and how it fits might be useful...?)Montanabw^(talk) 21:44, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for editing the stock saddle article. I really cannot add anything to that already covered in the saddle article, which covered the fitting of horse and rider quite well. The James Saddlery article has made some good points on saddle selection. Cgoodwin 07:54, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

I redlinked buckjumping. If it is the same as bronc riding, we should make a note of that in the bronc riding article, or else create an article about buckjumping and explain how it is significantly different...? Montanabw^(talk) 16:46, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Buckjumping is now disused term for bronc riding.

Say, userboxes usually go on the user page, not the talk page! (grin) Montanabw^(talk) 04:50, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Invite

There is now a proposal at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Horses for a new "parent" horse project. If anyone who looks at this page is interested, they are more than welcome to indicate their support there. Also, there is a discussion over at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Horse breeds about whether to merge that project in or keep it as a spinoff. Montanabw^(talk) 04:47, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Tail of the ACD

Have some refs for that comment, if so, we could add it in... ~ WikiDon 04:25, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Please feel free to add Reference: National ban on cosmetic tail docking of dogs! http://www.rspca.org.au/campaign/tail.asp Cgoodwin 05:47, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome to Wikipedia:WikiProject Agriculture

Welcome and thanks for signing up! There is plenty of work to do. The project is less than two months old! Look around the project page and talk page for things that need to be done and add thoughts of your own. Plenty of work to do on sheep and cattle and lots of vandalism to be patrolled for, esp on sheep. --Doug.^{(talk • contribs)} 18:09, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Many Sheep breeds and Cattle breeds are redlinked too, so lots of article potential.--Doug.^{(talk • contribs)} 18:27, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

There is a standard user box available for WP:AG: {{User WP Agriculture Userbox}}, which would put you in a more appropriate cat than using the talk page banner. You may want to switch that out.--Doug.^{(talk • contribs)} 01:49, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Perlino/Cremello

Just wondering if the Perlino foal is more of a cremello, the mane and tail look more cream than reddish in the photo, but you probably know what the real critter looks like and if there was a bay in the woodpile, so just checking... Montanabw^(talk) 18:51, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

This fellow, was then, a recently captured brumby with an unknown ancestry. His mane and tail I would say though was more red than cream. I don't have any further connection to him. Cgoodwin 09:07, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Okey dokey (as we say out here, means "OK") (grin). Maybe tweak the caption to draw reader's attention to faint reddish tint to mane and tail so that we avoid future edits saying it's a cremello. Montanabw^(talk) 00:55, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tildes

Hi – Just noticed that you always include the four tildes in your edit summary box. It doesn't work there, and in fact is not necessary, because the edit itself is automatically signed. Not that it causes any problem I know of, except for you of course, if the edit summary box is already nearly full and you reach the character number limit. Interesting and useful edits by the way. --Richard New Forest (talk) 07:25, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments re Tildes. I need all of the help that I can get! Cgoodwin (talk) 08:52, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sheep

Please observe the conventions of consensus decision making. According to WP:V, the burden of proof rests on you to assuage the concerns of other contributors if you have content you want added.I have responded to your talk comments, and you have failed to continue the discussion. Simply making a single declamatory talk comment is not sufficient. That is not a concluded decision made by consensus, it is your unilateral opinion. Adding disputed new content when editors still have reasonable objections that are unaddressed is unacceptable. Please continue the discussion. VanTucky ^talk 03:31, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] FYI

The template you use on your user page, the Agriculture template, is only for article talk pages. If you want to identify yourself as an Agriculture Project member use the following userbox template: {{User WP Agriculture Userbox}} VanTucky ^talk 03:36, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tasmanian Grey

This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of Tasmanian Grey, and it appears to include a substantial copy of http://www.woodbournstud.com.au/history.html. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences.

This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot (talk) 05:04, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fact tagging

It would be very helpful if you could use an edit summary when you place fact tags, so other can know when you're requesting citations. That way it might get fixed. VanTucky 00:20, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Calling for backup

Having some trouble with the animal rights activists on the rodeo articles. Could you swing by rodeo, calf roping, steer wrestling, Saddle Bronc and Bareback Riding and lend a hand so I don't get caught by the 3RR rule? Thanks! Montanabw^(talk) 01:45, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Not sure as to what I can do?? Noticed that there is a lock on some articles.

Your comments were useful on the talk page. In an editing dispute between only two people, it is helpful for a few more people to weigh in on the topic. I appreciated your help. The articles were locked down, at my request, because of the edit spat. The user in question has also now been blocked for personal attacks and a new one to me, "Tenditious Editing". I hope the crisis has passed, but the editing block expires the 16th, so if you wouldn't mind watchlisting...? Montanabw^(talk) 02:51, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Good work

Stopped by to thank you for your contribution to Ox-wagon (so good to have perspective of more than one region!), and saw your excellent work elsewhere. Nice going! And I've put your Commons pics in categories, so they're easier to find. Pls do check I've got these right (click on "My contributions" in your Commons account). To amend a category, edit the page and you'll see "[[Category:Blah blah]]"; just change it to a more suitable one. Any probs, gissa shout - I'm on Commons under the same name. Cheers, and keep up the super work! JackyR | Talk 20:56, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

And I've just realised that you've already started catting your work on Commons. All jolly good! :-) JackyR | Talk 21:35, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

		The Exceptional Newcomer Award
		No longer really a newcomer, but you deserve this anyway for consistent contributions to Australian agriculture! JackyR | Talk 20:56, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your kind words and encouragement! I'm keen to see that Australia and New Zealand gain some input as they are producers of some wonderful livestock, wool and Thoroughbreds, who seem to have been ommitted. Cgoodwin (talk) 01:33, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] That long single rope thing

On that note, where do the Aussies sit on the "lungeing]]/longeing issue? In the USA, "lunge" is considered to be rather ignorant and certainly incorrect usage, but someone from the UK is equally vehement that it is correct. All the old masters say "longe," I suppose there's a linguistic shift going on, but in the US, the people with a classical background are really quite insistent about the issue...in Au/NZ is it just careless useage as it is in the USA or has it replaced the older spelling entirely? (I note that the two different British riding instructor certification programs have a split, one says longe, the other lunge... bleeech!). Montanabw^(talk) 18:35, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

In Australia, New Zealand and the UK lunge is by far and away the most used word and in OZ the only one used. “Collins French Gem Dictionary” has: “Longe – halter” and “Allonger – to lengthen, stretch out, strike, eke out”. Henry Wynmalen in at least 3 of his books used the term Lungeing, in chapter on "Lungeing" on p.47 in "Dressage" (printed in USA); “Equitation” and also in "Horse Breeding and Stud Management" first published in 1950. "Encyclopaedia for Horsemen" (1952) uses Lunging(sic), Rein, whip etc. The "Macquarie Dictionary" does not list longeing or it deritives, but includes Lunge, lunging rein and lunging paddock. “The Instructors’ Handbook of the BHS and the PC” also has a chapter on Lungeing. In the "International Horseman's Dictionary" longe is not mentioned, but lungeing rein has been listed. I can supply full citations if required. As this Wikipedia article is the English version I feel that consideration should be given to this fact. Hope that this helps. Cgoodwin (talk) 09:49, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Now here's the weird part: All MY copies of Wynmalen books say "longe." I am really starting to wonder what is going on here. (Anti-French bias? Carelessness becoming commonplace? Language drift? ) It kind of bugs me. Longeing, as in, to work a horse on a "long" rein makes sense. Allonge leads to the "o" spelling. And a "lunge" is usually defined as a "violent thrust forward," as in fencing, most certainly what we DON'T want the horse to do. Of course, here in the USA, some people who don't "get it" say "lounging" so, sigh, it is probably a no-win situation. But then, we also have the "purebred/thoroughbred" usage problem, and the "sh" pronunciation of chaps -- a battle I DID win ("ch" chaps is what happens to your legs if you DON'T wear chaps! LOL!!). As for US versus UK English use, well, there is also "halter/head collar" and "horse trailer/horse box/horse float" and who knows what else? Lordy! Sometimes the English language, whatever version, is just SO irritating. Montanabw^(talk) 02:20, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thoroughbreds

WikiProject Horse breeds and WikiProject Equine are feeling our oats about getting Appaloosa to GA status, and,seeking a greater challenge, have turned our collective beady eyes to Thoroughbred. Can you take a peek at our changes, particularly the "Thoroughbreds in Australia" section? We want to put it up for GA or FA status, so every freaking thing will not only have to be accurate, but need a footnote (just put yours in hidden text or something if the formatting thing still is a mystery). I also find the bit on the breeding lines to be totally confusing, and I know you did most of that section, so maybe you can add an intro paragraph of "TB bloodline analysis for total dummies." LOL! Montanabw^(talk) 07:12, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bridle

Just a small point, but on Bridle "using" was not a spelling error, it was a typo. --Una Smith (talk) 23:56, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Not sure you even want to wade in, but...

Quite a dustup over at bitless bridle that has spilled over into hackamore. Given that I respect your background on things Australian, can you explain the types and uses of assorted bitless headgear in the land Down Under? (grin). Not sure if you use the bosal or the mechanical hackamore there, or other gadgets not used in the USA, or if you do use the same basic stuff, if they have different names. Trying to sort out a question of what is regional variation in terminology and what is incorrect terminology. Would value your comments here or elsewhere. Montanabw^(talk) 20:34, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your vote of confidence, but in this case it probably misplaced. In OZ these bridles are not used much at all. Initially the Q horse riders used quite a few bosals, but nowadays they seem to use other western bits or snaffles. A recent large catalogue had only a shorter shanked hackamore in it that some showjumpers use. An old OZ catalogue had about seven training hackamores shown, but the only one of them I have seen used is the bosal. Sorry that I have not been of much help. Cgoodwin (talk) 21:59, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Ah! A language thing! Do you consider "hackamore" to mean both the bosal hackamore and the mechanical hackamore? In the western US, traditional horsemen are quite adamant that the mechanical hackamore is not a real hackamore, but beginners frequently make the mistake of confusing the two. Montanabw^(talk) 22:40, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

IMHO, and I could well be wrong but in OZ the bosal is generally regarded as the simple plaited rawhide noseband type and the hackamore as having metal shanks. Personally I would not call a bosal a hackamore. I'm afraid that I don't know much about them though as there other variations that I have not seen used anywhere and are probably only used for training. The Americans seem have a much greater variation. Cgoodwin (talk) 23:00, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

That is probably where we are having some problems (see talk page of hackamore, and, if you dare, bitless bridle). In the USA, "hackamore" originally meant the Spanish jaquima, the bosal-style hackmore. And technically, the bosal is just the noseband part. During the 20th century, as the mechanical hackamore came on the scene, traditional reinsmen railed against the things being called "hackamores" at all! Amongst those who understand the classic vaquero tradition, the bosal and similar heavy noseband units are the "real" hackamore, and the shanked units are articles of torture that should be melted down and trashed (grin)...so if in OZ, useage has gone down that road, that explains some of the fight we are having over in these articles. Sigh. What a muddle. Montanabw^(talk) 23:27, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Article importance scale for WikiProject Equine

Hello. WikiProject Equine is discussing an article importance scale here. Your POV would be appreciated. --Una Smith (talk) 17:10, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Linguistics?

I don't know if this is a good idea or a bad one, but what do you think of the notion of making some kind of chart of different horse terms in US and UK English? It could be something like List of words having different meanings in British and American English, only a LOT shorter. Maybe this would be a total headache, and I don't know where to put it or how to classify it, maybe we can just keep working on worldwide terminology in every horse article as we get to it. (And the winkers/blinkers/blinders thing seems to transcend regional boundaries, even). I don't really have real strong feelings one way or the other, just am realizing how very many words are quite different. (horse float/horse box/horse trailer!) Found out from one source that even UK and US editions of the SAME BOOK may have edited different terms and spelling for the market to which they are sold! (I think this is true of some of the works of Summerhays, Wynmalen and English translations of some of the Germans) If you think such a linguistics project worthwhile, we can take it over to WPEQ to see if anyone else can help (Richard New Forest and Katdib are both Brits, I think?) -- or not. Just tossing it out. Thoughts? Montanabw^(talk) 00:59, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

I think that something needs to be added, possibly similar to Glossary of sheep husbandry to clear some of the confusion. Recently I added a small piece on tie up collars and the same certainly would not apply to a strict "halter". Some articles, especially the blinders article is just confusing to the reader, where I even found myself wondering if they are blinkers or winkers. Some of these terms have been in common English useage for well over a hundred years, including lunge, headstall/headcollar etc. Cgoodwin (talk) 02:49, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Why leave out Australia, New Zealand, and India? Why limit it to English? In my experience, these kinds of usage notes belong on Wiktionary, and the sourcing required for a good Wiktionary entry would not be appropriate on Wikipedia. See for example "congratudolences", for which I created an article here (see deletion log) then moved it to Wiktionary, where it passed a formal request for verification. --Una Smith (talk) 17:51, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

By English useage I meant the language. I certainly will not be leaving OZ or NZ out of any articles. Of India I know little, though. Cgoodwin (talk) 23:50, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I understood you meant the language. --Una Smith (talk) 01:31, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fiador (tack)

Cgoodwin, re bosals and hackamores, can you add some context to Fiador (tack)? Also, do you have a name for the strap that sometimes opposes the fiador? --Una Smith (talk) 17:54, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Sorry can't help here. Cgoodwin (talk) 23:51, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Do you see bridles with a strap down the forehead? If you do, would you take a photo or ask the rider what it is called? --Una Smith (talk) 01:19, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

I have uploaded images of Australian cheekers and a Image:Polo noseband bridle.jpg, which is similar to a Rockwell bridle. There are other types, too, such as the Norton bridle which has an overcheck style of bit and is used in racing. Cgoodwin (talk) 03:02, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Cgoodwin, thanks! (I fixed the redlink to your image, hope that's okay.) I also started Frentera. --Una Smith (talk) 15:42, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Hello again. I have been researching fiadors and neck ropes, and I am wondering about those Australian bridles with the "throatlatch" on the neck and attached to the rest of the bridle by a poll strap (?). If you wanted to clip a lead on the bridle (would anyone do that?), where would you clip it? --Una Smith (talk) 05:26, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

In case that isn't clear, I am thinking of bridles like the "Kimberley Extended Head Barcoo Bridle with Reins" here and the "Australian Halter Bridle" here. --Una Smith (talk) 05:35, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

We would not normally use a lead with the Kimberley Extended Head Barcoo Bridle with Reins. The Toowoomba Premium Halter Bridle is made in the traditional Stockman style and the lead would be clipped onto the noseband as on a headstall after the bit was removed. These bridles are used less nowadays. I guess due to having more vehicles to carry gear than in the days of the Light Horse and packhorse. The other patterns are not stockman bridles, but are sold as trail or endurance bridles. Cgoodwin (talk) 05:56, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

And hello again. Cgoodwin, sorry to stop by here with a short hijack, but Una and I are having some discussions and differences of opinion again. Dive in at your own risk! LOL! And Una, please reassure me that you aren't back on your kick of trying to prove that all throatlatches are fiadors again? Or that "cheekers" are a frentera? Please? Please? Remember: WP:NOR. And Una, just because there is a Spanish word for something doesn't mean that everything has to be called by the Spanish word. Montanabw^(talk) 06:11, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cheekers, Tack, English, etc

Way cool. Appreciate the additions on Australian tack. And explain Rockwell and Norton bridles, we may use the same things with different names-- or not? (A person can put links to catalog photos on talk pages to show other editors what you are talking about even if not OK for the main articles, FYI...)

By the way, I tried to internationalize the English riding article by wikilinking your stuff to the articles on UK type events that I know of, maybe see if they parallel OZ competition or not...the terms are so confusing, a "class" in the USA is (I think) a "show" in the UK, but a "show" in the USA is an entire series of many, many classes...you see the problems...arrgh. Anyway, if I screwed up, just fix. My goal here is to have everything clear as mud...or maybe that's my evil conspiracy plot??? Montanabw^(talk) 03:46, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Frentera

Cgoodwin, thank you for the photos! I have added both to Frentera and Image:Cheekers.jpg also to Bit guard. --Una Smith (talk) 18:42, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cheeker or cheekers

Cgoodwin, Noseband has "cheeker" and your image has "cheekers"; which usage, singular or plural, do you think is more common? Also, are bit guards called "cheek guards" in OZ? --Una Smith (talk) 01:22, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

In OZ cheekers is probably more common but cheeker is also used in UK. "Bit shield" is the alternative to a bit guard which are often home made. Nice work on the Frentera. Cgoodwin (talk) 02:10, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! I have reworded the relevant text on Frentera. Nice illustrations. --Una Smith (talk) 04:41, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Want to peek at another article?

Wouldn't hurt to run Australian Riding Pony through a check from someone who lives there. Want to take a peek? (No active edit wars or anything! (grin))Montanabw^(talk) 20:40, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Walcha Road

Hi Cgoodwin - I have just noticed your great photos of the Walcha area. Are you able to take photos of any of the local railway stations in your area? Walcha Road would be excellent by itself, but Kootingal, Uralla, or any other railway stations in the area would be good. JRG (talk) 22:39, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I should be able to do that if given a little time.Cgoodwin (talk) 02:10, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Digging

Hi – could you have a look at Talk: Spading fork and say something about Oz usage? Richard New Forest 11:38, 23 March 2008 (apologies for not signing before).

Thanks! --Richard New Forest (talk) 19:40, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Half breed saddle

Hey, saw the new photo of the "half breed" Aussie stock saddle. I have seen these also marketed as "Swinging fender" saddle. The fender is derived from the western saddle, I have sat in a couple (at a saddle shop in Queensland, by the way) found them very comfortable, and have been very tempted to buy one. What's your take on the relative comfort and usefulness of the design as compared to the classic version? (particularly for trail riding) On a related note, are the Aussie saddles that have a western saddle horn ever actually seen in Australia, or is that another weird American thing that we did? Just curious. Montanabw^(talk) 00:41, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

I think that the swinging fender saddles have a different knee pad construction and possibly tree. Both styles have become very popular here and are said to be better on a horse's back. Many saddlers will make whatever style or size that you require, at a price. Horns may be fixed or the removable style, as in the ASH photo. I can provide a fender style saddle photo if required. It is a personal preference, but I use a custom made traditional style stock saddle. See also:

http://www.theoverseersaddlery.com.au/saddles.html http://www.jamessaddlery.com.au/ http://www.saddleworld.com.au/product_guide_2008/sdw_PG_flipping_book.swf Cgoodwin (talk) 03:15, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

As always, the custom-made saddles of any style are always the best, aren't they? I rode a beautiful all leather Aussie a friend had, but about 20 years ago and have been looking for one that nice ever since, to no avail. In the meantime, Wintec probably does a nicer job than any of the cheapo Made in India leather ones with super-narrow trees we see here in the States. The ones Wintec makes appear to have the same basic tree whether classic or swinging fender, though maybe the knee pads are a little shorter. And they make them wide enough for the horses I ride. Most of the classic Aussie saddles that wind up in the USA are cheapos and that strap that runs across the top of the saddle as well as the jockeys that cover the stirrup bars pinch and rubs like crazy; (and the cheap felt on the underside of the saddle just doesn't look like it would hold up at all!) Both styles of the Wintecs seem to fit quite a bit better, but I have never seen the swinging fender design on a leather one; the Wintec is the only swinging fender design I've ridden in, and that model was more comfortable than the classic, but maybe that's because the synthetic material won't "break in" over time. Oddly enough, the same tack shop in Queensland (actually, I was in a couple, all in the Sunshine coast area) was selling a saddle with western swells but no horn, replacing the knee pads, but keeping the Aussie cantle. That looked like the worst of both worlds and was quite uncomfortable to sit in. Well, I'm rambling, but curious to know more. Actually been trying any number of hornless saddle designs for trail riding (English saddles are pretty tiring to the horse on long slow rides, most western saddles hurt my knees after several hours, many of the "endurance" models aren't balanced properly) and am leaning toward an Aussie if I can find a decent one for less than a king's ransom. All comments appreciated. Montanabw^(talk) 04:34, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

I would not even consider any recommendations in the saddle world as so much depends on personal preference, the riding and even the horses that you use. Try to sit in at least some, preferably on a horse. Some of our days days in the saddle were extremely long and where some saddles were inclined to make a horses back tender. A good horse is also very helpful on these very long days. I cannot image even contemplating mountain riding in a flat saddle. BTW stock stirrup leathers buckle near the ankle. One sometimes see them buckled on the bars which is not recommended on stock saddles. Good luck in your search. Cgoodwin (talk) 00:04, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh I agree about personal opinions about fit, I'm just after as many opinions as I can find! (LOL) It's just frustrating when you can't borrow stuff because sellers give you 10 days to return saddles, and then only if they show no wear! Arrgh! (and try finding a good Aussie to borrow here! I may have to wait for my next trip down to OZ -- in a couple years, maybe -- and see if I can find someone with a horse to ride down there!) The endurance riding people by and large, especially at FEI level use All-Purpose or Eventing type English saddles a lot (the Stubben Siegfried is quite popular), but they spend a lot of their time off the horse's back, trotting and galloping-- note images of the Tevis Cup -- they go over the Sierra Nevadas in an English saddle! But on slow rides, where you aren't off their backs, and are walking a lot, a horse's back CAN get pretty sore in one. While the western saddle is good for hard riding all day because the tree spreads the rider's weight out more over the back and is less likely to create sort spots (if it fits right), but it's so damn heavy, and in the last few years, I've found it too confining on the trail when I just want to get from point A to point B -- I learned to ride western before I learned to ride English, and am a real-live third generation Montanan and all but I REALLY want a relatively light, comfy, but hornless saddle for being out on the trail. The competitive trail riding crowd uses all sorts of stuff, I've seen Aussies there, also some western saddles without horns. I have an "endurance" saddle now, one that is a light tree western-style without a horn, but the balance is wrong, the stirrups are hung for riders who sit way back, which is, as you point out, not my riding style (in western saddles, the "balanced ride" tree is one of my favorites, I like to be able to get up off the horse's back if I need to). Well, I'm just chatty today. I'll look over those links you sent and keep on researching. Thanks Montanabw^(talk) 21:55, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks rewarded by more work

May want to watchlist not only rodeo, but also calf roping, and steer wrestling. (Probably the saddle bronc article too, though it hasn't been hit yet). The PETA crowd is back and made POV edits on several articles. Rvv patrol may need activation. Have also alerted some admins. Last time this happened, it got very nasty. Montanabw^(talk) 01:06, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Polocrosse

Hi, I have reinstated the {{primarysources}} tag on the article Polocrosse, because there are still has no references independent of the subject: see WP:RS. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 02:35, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

BHG, I'm jumping in for Cgoodwin here, sometimes the ONLY source for the rules of a sport is the rulebook of the sanctioning organization. I am going to tone down that tag to a simple request for footnotes. Montanabw^(talk) 03:56, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Montanabw, that may well be the case for the rules, but that wasn't the point I was concerned about. The problem is that the article has no independent refs for anything, so it fails WP:N.

I have reinstated the tags {{primarysources}} tag, and and added a {{notability}} tag. If you are unhappy about that, please can we continue the discussion at Talk:Polocrosse#Primary_sources.2C_notability? Thanks! --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs)

Thanks for the support but the Australian Encylopedia had an article on it and I hope that it suffices. Cgoodwin (talk) 04:56, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

It might do, if it's a substantial entry (see WP:N). However, that seems to be the only independent reference, and because there are no inline citations (see WP:CITE) it is unclear whether anything other than the existence of the sport is noted in the Australian encyclopedia. This still looks non-notable to me. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:29, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Posting canter

Do you have knowledge of posting the canter? As in sit a stride, rise a stride? See edit history on Canter and discussion on Talk:Canter. --Una Smith (talk) 20:59, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I am sorry I'm not not able to help on this, although I have noticed that it is fairly common among polo players. Cgoodwin (talk) 01:42, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I wonder if there is a more technical name for it than "posting." Montanabw^(talk) 02:39, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm told that "posting" is an old technical name for rising to the trot, so presumably the same for canter? --Richard New Forest (talk) 20:09, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I found 2 web forums where it is called "treading", but that usage seems to be very uncommon. Most polo players who do it call it posting. --Una Smith (talk) 21:16, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Richard, we still call it posting (some people call it "rising") to the trot. Una, if treading is uncommon, I guess I'll go along with it, but see my edits in the article, so as not to confuse it with the far more common practice of posting the trot. Montanabw^(talk) 04:27, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

And why have we hijacked poor Cgoodwin's talk page? Let's move this to canter. Montanabw^(talk) 04:43, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] TB edit

We need a page number on that book citation before you put the book away!!! Ealdgyth - Talk 04:39, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! Ealdgyth - Talk 05:28, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Chaps question

Someone just added to the chaps article a statement that: "In Australia, chaps are often made of oilskin rather than leather." Is this true? For that matter, do you guys even wear chaps, and if so, is it Stockman equipment or horse show equipment or ...  ? In the interest of full disclosure, some editing issues surrounding the chaps article are in mediation, so everything that goes in there is getting pretty close scrutiny, I'm just curious as to your knowledge. Thanks much! Montanabw^(talk) 04:38, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Rough riders competing in rodeos wear leather chaps, but they are not used much elswhere. There are also canvas chaps/overtrousers?? that are worn by yardmen in stockyards on wet days. Shearers sometimes also wear some form of protection when shearing burry sheep. Have not seen these. Sorry not much help here. Cgoodwin (talk) 04:49, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Looks like you've weighed in at the chaps article, shall continue discussion there. Montanabw^(talk) 04:46, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Protected areas of New South Wales

I don't want to war over these edits. Why are you removing these parks from the list? Bleakcomb (talk) 11:54, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

They are not listed in NSW let alone the New England. Source: 2008 Guide to NSW National Parks. Cgoodwin (talk) 03:09, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes they are. List of all parks & reserves in NSW Bleakcomb (talk) 03:27, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Reverted edits in error after using the NP&WLS site and book, too. Belmont appears to be Belmont Wetlands and Goolawah State Park is located on the Mid North Coast, S of Crescent Head. Sorry for the error.Cgoodwin (talk) 05:36, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for making those changes. You have, however, introduced new errors in the reversion. In future, could you, if you are reverting on article, undo or revert to that previous version. Don't introduce new edits in a reversion, particularly if those new edits are incorrect. Sorry for being terse, but your edits have been unhelpful and disruptive. Also if someone reverts your recent changes, the polite thing to do is to ask why on the talk page of the article concerned.

I don't understand why you have removed Belmont and Goolawah State Parks from the article. Please revert or provide some source that indicates that these two NSW State Parks are not NSW State Parks. On the basis that you mucked it up, you fix it, please revert this article to the last version 16-Mar-2008. If you are not sure how, please ask for help. Thanks. Bleakcomb (talk) 07:23, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thoroughbred

Thoroughbred made GA tonight! Yay! Here's a little toy to put on your user page. {{User Good Articles|#}} and you put the number of GAs you've contributed to in place of the #. Thanks so much for the help! Ealdgyth - Talk 02:57, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Good work! I'm afraid my contributions were very minor! Cgoodwin (talk) 03:35, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Crabbet

Hey, nice edit on the Australian Crabbet horses. I cut it down a little to avoid Undue weight to any one nation (listing imports could go on for pages if we started listing things worldwide, everyone everywhere imported Crabbet stuff - from the Duke of Verugua to the Soviet government) but I thought it was interesting! However, one thing: I question the "Australia has more Crabbet horses" stat-- if it is "Pure" Crabbet or "Straight" Crabbet (i.e. every single pedigree line traces to a Crabbet import), then that certainly is possible. However, if it is just Crabbet breeding (i.e. in some but not all lines), then I really doubt it, as about 90% of all American Arabs have Crabbet lines. But here in the USA, "straight" Crabbet is pretty rare. So, if you could be so kind as to clarify that statistic, I would be grateful. Oh, and if it is from a magazine, can you also add more bibliographical info -- article title, author, etc...if possible? Thanks. Montanabw^(talk) 05:08, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Much of the article, "The Crabbet Arabian", appears to have been taken from the Wiki article and no author has been given. Some years ago I did have a fair bit of interest in Arabs as they were then known, but have not followed recent trends, but I do know that some breeders kept to pure Crabbet lines. Sorry I can't help beyond that. Some pages at: http://www.ivahri.com/ozcrabbetreference.htm may help though. Cgoodwin (talk) 05:34, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Arabs is still pretty common shorthand, I guess in Europe they sometimes call crossbreds "Arabs" and purebreds "Arabians," or so I have been told. I'll take peek and see if I can clear it up. Wish people wouldn't be sloppy with stats. Is the magazine you cited online anywhere? Montanabw^(talk) 06:00, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] SAMM

A tag has been placed on SAMM, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article seems to be blatant advertising that only promotes a company, product, group, service or person and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become an encyclopedia article. Please read the general criteria for speedy deletion, particularly item 11, as well as the guidelines on spam.

If you can indicate why the subject of this article is not blatant advertising, you may contest the tagging. To do this, please add {{hangon}} on the top of SAMM and leave a note on the article's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would help make it encyclopedic, as well as adding any citations from reliable sources to ensure that the article will be verifiable. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Mizu onna sango15/水女珊瑚15 05:28, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Glad I could help! --JeffJ (talk) 06:04, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Hey there! I might suggest you move the article to a title that spells out the whole name. (For example, see HERDA, no one in the real world can remember what the acronym stands for and we all call it HERDA, but the actual article still uses its "real" name). Just a thought to fend off the wikicops, and actually, it is better wiki-policy too. And FYI, User:VanTucky, newly promoted to Admin status, is really interested in the sheep articles in general (I think he was instrumental in the GA push for sheep), you may want to have him peek at the article (thought brace for impact if you do, he can be pretty hard on you!) . Anyway, my two bits, the article is fun and interesting! Montanabw^(talk) 04:03, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm unsure as to how to go about it. SAMM is the only term used and it would need to be re-directed. If you can re-direct I would be grateful if not I will try to figure it out. User:VanTucky has done a lot of work on the sheep articles, but unfortunately has little or no practical knowledge of them and some of his references are dodgy. Cgoodwin (talk) 04:14, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

If you are OK with me doing the move and redirect, I can do it, but shall await your permission. (And Yeah, I know, but he's now an admin and does a LOT of GA review (grin)...) Montanabw^(talk) 21:57, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

It is fine by me, thanks. Cgoodwin (talk) 01:16, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Encyc cites?

I am a bit mystified why another encyc is used to reference parts of the kimberley article - any reason? it just that it seems odd - cheers SatuSuro 05:10, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

History of the Kimberley is very scarce here and it is what I had. It has not caused problems before. Cgoodwin (talk) 05:51, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Well dont get bothered if others replace it with more relevant citations sources thats all - cheers SatuSuro 06:19, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Aussie Ponies

Nice job of splitting out the two articles. I made some tweaks on the new one, hopefully nothing that altered content. Threw in hidden text of questions that came to mind as I was reading/editing that would be cool for you to address, if possible. Montanabw^(talk) 23:56, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thoroughbred

Just an FYI that Thoroughbred went up to FAC today with you as a co-nominator. Ealdgyth - Talk 12:42, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstar

		The Geography Barnstar
		Awarded for your continuing work on articles relating to the New England and Northern Tablelands region. Well done! Mattinbgn\talk 04:53, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you! I will keep working on these locations, plus some western locations. Cgoodwin (talk) 05:16, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

's okay. I especially love the photos. Tell me, is the photo of the Jennings pub taken from inside Wallangarra? -- Mattinbgn\^talk

As far as I can establish I took the photo inside NSW, but the borders are not well defined. See the photos that I have added at Wallangarra. There are other signs there relating to livestock movements, too, but they seem to be unmanned, at least when I was there the other day. I should have take more photos but I was short on time. Cgoodwin (talk) 01:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Whoo!

Here's a pretty new toy for your user page:

Ealdgyth - Talk 01:39, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Your unjustified reversion

Your latest edit to Draft would surely not have taken place if you had either paid attention to the advice you were given above at /Sheep #Sheep, or adhered to WP:AGF. I gave a relevant reason, to wit

this is a hopeless dict def; do no re-add

and your terse response

replace

which describes, true enuf, but makes no hint of explanation, might as well be

Oh, yeah? Stop me!

You need to study MoSDab and Dab if you are going to revert Dab-page changes by your more experienced colleagues. And perhaps you need to review NOT.
--Jerzy•t 03:02 & 03:03, 8 June 2008 (UTC)