Talk:Central Council of Ex-Muslims

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[edit] Disputed neutrality?

How come the neutrality is disputed when noone brings forward any points of criticism? -bomthereich March 4 2007 16:08 (CET)

Hm. This article is translated from the German Wikipedia (I am the author). There are sources mentioned. I can’t see any lack of neutrality. de:user:Rainer Zenz 16:51, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I removed the tags as no reason was given why they were placed. --Magadan ?! 17:00, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

The material is not sourced. There are no footnotes pointing out that this article is anything other than WP:OR.--Sefringle 02:26, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Can't find a source for this, and it sounds mistranslated, maybe. In different interviews Ahadi has stated that it was not possible to reform Islam, that she is critical of all religions and not only of Islam, but that is she does not want to abolish religion. The Council would like to lve in peaceful and tolerant coexistence with Muslims in Germany.^{[citation needed]} --Flammingo^Hey 21:01, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Note the following quotes:

"I don't think that Islam can be reformed -- and other religions can't be either. Those who want to reform Islam can be my guest, but many have tried it and been unsuccessful." (referenced DW Article)

"I'm against all religions." (referenced DW Article)

"At the end of the nearly two-hour conference, however, Mina Ahadi declared that the aim of the Central Council of Ex-Muslims is not to abolish religion. They are much more interested in a peaceful and tolerant coexistence with Muslims in Germany." (referenced Qantara portal article)

These are English language German newspapers and the interviews were conducted by them. More than that, I can't vouch for any mistranslation. Is there a specific sentence you did not find a source for?

Misheu 21:36, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

That won't last long unless you add them within the article as <ref>SOURCE</ref>--Flammingo^Hey 07:33, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Maybe you can help me out? How do I reference something that is already referenced elsewhere in the article? Misheu 08:03, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Those claims (especially the atheist comments) might be in direct speech, say, She said that she were "against all religions", and that religions could not be reformed.<ref>DW article, section XYZ, subpage abc</ref> References need to be at the place of the claim. I like the subject, just dont have the time to read through all the pages. Flammingo^Hey 09:27, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Fine.. I already brought those links down there, but I'll do it again. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Misheu (talk • contribs) 09:30, 17 April 2007 (UTC).

Yup, wonderful ;-) --Flammingo^Hey 15:43, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Verein

I do not see why this is necessary. "Verein" is a "society" or "club") The name of the organization is "Zentralrat der Ex-Muslime", which literally means "Central Council of Ex-Muslims". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Misheu (talk • contribs) 21:39, 15 April 2007 (UTC).

Because a Verein is a group of people with legal rights and obligations anyone can found. There is no word in English that is exactly the same; consequently, you see why "council" was a political choice, and is by no means a political council, but the name of the "Verein". But (Verein) should suffice. --Flammingo^Hey 21:47, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

I did not add the note that "verein" might be misleading. But this is an English wiki, not a German one, and I don't think discussions about whether a specific German word is correct or not should take place here. The Council is an organization, if you don't want to call it an association. "Rat" in German is translated as Council. That is not a "political choice". The political choice was to name the organization such in the first place, as is stated in the article itself. Misheu 21:50, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] http://www.ex-muslime.de/

This website, used as a source twice, links to a page with pictures of people and some likns down the left side (in German). Basically the source doesn't really say anything. Therefore I'm removing it.Bless sins 04:07, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

And similarly this website is far too extreme to be a relaible source. I'm removing this as well.Bless sins 04:10, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

I tend to agree, though there is no reason to bring the organization's estimate of how many members they have, provided it is stated in the article. For the other issues you mention, I have found other sources. I suppose for this article a list of the notable cases where people were killed for apostasy against Islam in the past year is not necessary, but keep in mind that you don't need to be too extreme to find plenty of such examples. Misheu 07:49, 9 July 2007 (UTC)