Talk:Cardcaptor Sakura

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To-do list for Cardcaptor Sakura:

edit · history · watch · refresh

Here are some tasks you can do: Merge: in media article and Cardcaptors Verify: many more references needed Cleanup: massive clean up and restructure per the MOS; create real character section and list Expand: Create a "Reception" and a "Production" section; add manga list with summaries Update: make sure all information is current regarding releases NPOV: focuses almost entirely on anime, when it should focus on manga; make sure not to allow dislike of Cardcaptors to influence writing

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• See recent changes for the Cardcaptor Sakura article series

Contents 1 Contributions 2 MOVIES INFO 3 Yue 4 Merges 4.1 Characters 5 Keroberos name fixing

[edit] Contributions

Portions of “Title names”, “Broadcasting”, “Intros” and “Voice casts” came from Michael’s Cardcaptors. --Dynamo_ace 12:05, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] MOVIES INFO

I must insist on gathering more information about the two movies, perhaps even creating a new page for them. Thank you.

I can supply more information if needed. P.S. don't forget to sign post.Jeffrey G. Conflict 2552 Producer 16:24, 7 April 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kidcoast (talk • contribs)

The movies are not notable enough to have their own pages. Collectonian (talk) 16:41, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

It wouldn't surprise me if we had enough information to justify some "sub articles" for the movies, but all they would be at this point is plot summaries. -- Ned Scott 02:03, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

There actual are articles for both movies, and all they contain are very long plot summaries. Collectonian (talk) 02:07, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Yue

I know Wikipedia is all "we luv spoilers" these days, but I strongly feel that it's inappropriate to have such a huge spoiler as Yue's true identity revealed in the chart of characters, which is a part of the article readers should expect to be able to read without having anything spoiled for them. Therefore instead of "Yue (Yukito)" as it was, I've moved Yukito to the "other characters" section. 91.107.148.232 (talk) 19:21, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

I am going to have to agree on this decision because through out the entire series he plays his own part in the show.Jeffrey G. Conflict 2552 Producer 16:29, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

It will be undone. It is not appropriate decision at all. We do not hide spoilers, period. Collectonian (talk) 16:40, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merges

It was proposed in February that the media list and Cardcaptors be merged back into the articles. No discussion was every started here, though informal consensus in the project is that the merges will be done. If anyone else wishes to weigh in, please do so, or the merges will be done soon. These merges are highly appropriate as the current splits go against our MoS and do not lend themselves to well formed articles. This is also in keeping with what the project is currently doing in other similar articles, with the most recent example being Tokyo Mew Mew, which has undergone two similar merges and is of a very similar nature in terms of issues with with English release and bad article formats as Cardcaptor Sakura is. Collectonian (talk) 04:10, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Characters

Cardcaptor Sakura has a ridiculous number of character articles – 22, and those are just the ones the Navbox links to (though I don't actually know if there are any others) – but no central character list. These pages really need to be merged, if anyone wants to undertake the job. —Dinoguy1000 18:00, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

I completely and 100% agree. If no one gets to it, CCS is on my list to deal with after I finish Tokyo Mew Mew, both of which had a lot of similar issues (including unnecessary split of English dub and original, had no main character, etc.). Certainly wouldn't mind help if anyone wants to start some of the initial work. Collectonian (talk) 18:55, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

I've got nothing against a character list, however, if we're talking about making 'merges' I want it to be perfectly clear that the character pages themselves should stay, at least for the major characters. Several other series have both a character list in addition to individual character pages (including Tokyo Mew Mew mentioned by Collectonian), and I see no reason why CCS should not be able to do the same. 3loodlust (talk) 20:48, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Let me make it perfectly clear that I am not saying there is no room for individual character articles. I understand perfectly well the need for individual articles covering the main characters in a series – however, this is contingent on the existence of sufficient verifiable real-world information from reliable sources. I haven't actually looked at any of the articles (I don't usually have sufficient time for that type of stuff), so I couldn't say whether any of the main CCS character articles could survive an AfD, which these are certainly ripe for. It's perfectly fine to merge all the pages into a single list, clean up, expand, and source the information, and then break out the information for those major characters that have enough. —Dinoguy1000 22:47, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Tokyo Mew Mew only has some for a short while longer. All are being merged in. However, as Dino has noted, for CCS it is highly likely that Sakura, if none of the others, are very likely to able to meet WP:FICT. Some, however, it is very clear will never meet WP:FICT and just be straight merged. For the rest, we can either merge, then look for break outs, or in the case of Sakura, leave out and tag for notability with a note that it needs to be brought up to snuff. Collectonian (talk) 00:34, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Keroberos name fixing

I believe the article Cerberus (Cardcaptor Sakura) needs to be renamed to use the official English name of Keroberos, as per our MoS. Kero is named Keroberos in both the English release manga by Tokyopop and the Geneon anime releases. He is also named Keroberos in the Cardcaptors dub. This, to me, is overwhelming support for using Keroberos for the article name. Google hits also support that Keroberos is the most commonly used name, with nearly 17500 hits for Keroberos "Cardcaptor Sakura" versus 12400 for Cerberus "Cardcaptor Sakura" and 821 for Kerberos "Cardcaptor Sakura" I can see no real reason or purpose for using Cerberus except to try to tie it to the Greek mythology (currently unsourced theory in the main article). If the article is renamed, of course all instances with in the CCS articles should also be fixed. Collectonian (talk) 20:30, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

If the statement from the article that "The older TOKYOPOP releases of the manga render his name as 'Keroberos,' but this was changed in later printings to 'Cerberus.'" is true, then that would be a good sign that it was a translation error they later corrected. --erachima talk 20:38, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to see a source on that, since I have the last printings of the series and it uses Keroberos throughout. The only other places I see making such a claim is TV.com from the user edited section, which is word from word from ours so someone pasted from one to the other. Nothing on the Tokyopop supports the claim, as they use Kero when referring to him in descriptions and no press releases about "fixing the name" in the reissue. Seems like nothing but fan rumor to me. Collectonian (talk) 20:45, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

It is true that in the original Tokyopop release the name was spelled differently, however in recent printings, numerous additions have been made "to better reflect CLAMP's intentions" including changing the name's spelling to 'Cerberus'. Also, while the spelling could be changed to 'Kerberos' and still be technically correct, the spelling 'Keroberos' is not accurate. The katakana of the characters name in the original release in Japan is [ケルベロス (Keruberosu, ケルベロス^?)].Additionally, the claim that 'Keroberos' is the most recognized spelling due to the results of a search engine holds little water. The same test using a different search engine (Ask.com) showed 'Cerberus as the most common spelling with Cerberus "Cardcaptor Sakura" getting 1,250 hits versus Keroberos "Cardcaptor Sakura"with only 856, and Kerberos "Cardcaptor Sakura" with 543. 3loodlust (talk) 20:54, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I stand corrected. Came home and checked and the new printings of the first half of the manga do indeed use Cerberus (and Kero-chan), however, the anime still uses Keroberos and the first printings also use Keroberos. So the question then becomes, do we go with what is used in the new printings, or what is used in the anime and the original printings and the more popularly used? (And Ask.com is not a real search engine while Google hits are considered an informal indicator of popularity). Collectonian (talk) 21:41, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

(edit conflict)The only source I can find that uses Keroberos is the Geneon DVDs (although I've not checked the second movie as I'm not sure when or if his name is used). Cannot give screenshots as for whatever reason subtitles are no longer coming being included in PowerDVD caps. The original Tokyopop manga actually uses Kerberos, at least in the edition I have. The bilingual manga published by Kodansha International uses Cerberus, as does Tokyopop's later Master of the Clow manga (I never bought their "100% authentic" re-release of the first half of the series since I already had the bilinguals, but those stopped at volume 6). The official anime fanbook published in Japan by Kodansha also uses Cerberus. Shiroi Hane (talk) 22:00, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, thats quite useful :) Are those bilingual ones part of Kodansha's series for helping folks in Japan learn English? Collectonian (talk) 22:09, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Geneon's DVD's use "Kerberos" throughout the subtitled version of Cardcaptor Sakura. "Keroberos" is only used in the Cardcaptors dub material. --EmperorBrandon (talk) 04:00, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Here is an example of it from the from the Geneon DVD's (this is from the first episode of the subtitled version) of "Kerberos": [1] --EmperorBrandon (talk) 04:15, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Ah cool. Its been awhile since I've watched, so was misremembering. Guess that's a good excuse for a rewatch. ;-) Collectonian (talk) 04:26, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

It would appear then that the only version using the "Keroberos" spelling is in fact the much maligned Cardcaptors. Shiroi Hane (talk) 13:36, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Given the evidence? I say we use Cerberus. The other name is confirmed Engrish. Also worth mentioning that if you search for those same terms mentioned above, on Google, but with Card Captor Sakura instead of Cardcaptor Sakura, you get 28k hits for the Cerburus variant and only about 6k for Keroberos. --erachima talk 23:45, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

The "100% authentic" release calls him 'Cerberus'. Also, I'm so sorry that I didn't think of this before, but the Japanese manga also uses 'Cerberus' (or at least my edition does). It's written on the small sidebar profile located on page 14 of volume 8. At the top his name is spelled in katakana, but at the bottom, under a picture of him it reads 'Cerberus'. I think I agree with erachima, 'Cerberus' seems to be the better spelling.3loodlust (talk) 23:50, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Alrighty then. So, should we, at least, actually have Keroberos redirecting to Cerberus, for those who have only seen the anime? :P Collectonian (talk) 00:15, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

3loodlust: I actually took a picture of that from the bilingual release, but didn't include it as I already had a sample from that version. I didn't realise that bit of text was the same in the Japanese version. Collectonian: I believe those books are for Japanese learning English, yes. I also have the first two volumes of Chobits in bilingual. Shiroi Hane (talk) 00:30, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

So, now that we have all these references for the spelling...how about adding some of them to the Cerberus article (in the proper format, of course, not the links to the images)? :PCollectonian (talk) 04:30, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't have the books here so might be a bit difficult and I'm on lates but I'll see what I can do. Shiroi Hane (talk) 13:36, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

How would you suggest we go about that, Collectonian. We have more sources of different spellings here then are currently mentioned in the article. Do you think adding all of them might be too messy, or should we go ahead and mention all of the above? 3loodlust (talk) 20:08, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Not every last one :) One or two per name would be fine, though. Collectonian (talk) 20:14, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Since we've agreed it should be Cerberus, anyone want to help with fixing the names in the various CCS articles? Being consistent throughout would be a good thing. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 03:33, 23 May 2008 (UTC)