Talk:Capitol Hill, Seattle, Washington

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	LGBT Portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject LGBT studies, which tries to ensure comprehensive and factual coverage of all LGBT related issues on Wikipedia. For more information, or to get involved, visit the project page.
Start	This article has been rated as Start-class on the quality scale.

Washington Portal This article is part of WikiProject Washington, a comprehensive WikiProject dedicated to articles about topics related to the U.S. state of Washington. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or join by visiting the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.

Contents 1 lists of bars and coffeeshops 2 Better Off Undead 3 Request history of Capitol Hill 4 Gay City link 5 "Catholic Hill" 6 Club Z 7 Pride Parade 8 Clean Indoor Air Act / Smoking Ban 9 Lists

[edit] lists of bars and coffeeshops

Should this page bother to list places that are no longer in business? Is there a standard on other neighborhood pages? Ocicat 20:28, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

I think they are an important part of the place's history. Boondocker's, Henry's, and Lion O'Reilly's were emblematic of a very different Capitol Hill in the 1970s and early 1980s. Tugs' Belmont wasn't just a bar, it was one of the first bars in Seattle (maybe the first) to double as a significant theater venue, a tradition now carried on by Re-bar. Cites for Re-bar: [1] [2]; unfortunately, Tugs was too long ago to find online cites. My suspicion is that we should ultimately flesh out a bit more history on the neighborhood, and these are defining venues that should certainly be mentioned in any such history.

I'd be interested to know about any comparably prominent venues from even earlier, before I moved here; does anyone have knowledge of this?

Oh, and, no, there is no standard for neighborhood pages; I think we should handle them the same way as any other community. Capitol Hill is more of a "place" than many small incorporated municipalities. -- Jmabel | Talk 23:05, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

A history that included those places would be interesting, I'd like to see it included. Just seeing names on a list with no context, not so interesting - especially when those places aren't existing anymore, and I (as a relative newcomer) have no idea of their signifigance. Ocicat 08:38, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Done, for the bars at least. I did this from my own knowledge rather than from written sources. This would be a royal pain to verify—to the best of my knowledge, no Seattle newspaper has an online archive from that period, so it would mainly mean library research—but if anyone genuinely doubts any of what I wrote, I will try to find verifying materials for what is in doubt. -- Jmabel | Talk 20:43, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

I've written prose about the defunct coffeehouses, as well. -- Jmabel | Talk 03:46, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

The UW has access on campus via Proquest to the Seattle Times archive 1984-present. You have to be affiliated with UW to use it at home, or in the library. Not too hard to look some stuff up. Aep 07:46, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

So what's the logic with deleting some of the local businesses that are still in business to leave others that aren't open anymore? Aep 03:12, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Is it even appropriate to list every single bar and coffeehouse on Capitol Hill? What about every clothing store, or record shop? Checking the other neighborhood pages for Seattle, none of them have a list of any businesses. It's strange that Pioneer Square and Bell Town do not have something similar. Perhaps, more history and less phone book listing would be in order. -- Grantor Talk 12:30, 20 June 2006

I agree. The list is actually helpful to establishing the character of the neighborhood, but should probably be moved to a sub article. FireWeed 21:58, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Better Off Undead

Why isn't there anything on the Capitol Hill massacre (for which it gets its name)? mxdxcxnx _{T C} 23:17, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

add it if you want! --Lukobe 05:06, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Request history of Capitol Hill

Specifically, I'd like to see history on how Capitol Hill came to be the center of gay lifestyle in Seattle.Roninbk 01:52, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Pretty recent, actually. Pioneer Square and, to a lesser extent the lower part of Westlake (before the Westlake Mall was built) were the gay centers as recently as the 1970s. - Jmabel | Talk 00:28, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually, Capitol Hill is no longer the center of gay life in Seattle. While many of the remaining gay bars are there, you find gay people living throughout the metropolitan area now. With limited parking, condo construction, and the like on Capitol Hill, it has become a major hassle to go there--especially when you don't need to in order to find a community where you are accepted. Bob 06:37, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Certainly, gays live all over Seattle. But I can't think of any other neighborhood with a comparably large percentage of gays, or (more particularly) of gay-oriented businesses. And even more so in terms of gay community non-profits. Just like Scandinavians are no longer the majority of Ballard, but Ballard is certainly the center of Seattle's Scandinavian communities. - Jmabel | Talk 00:21, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gay City link

Is the "Gay City" link useful? It seems to be nothing but ads and a listing of bars. - Jmabel | Talk 03:34, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

That seems to be just what it is, and not a particularly distinguished ad space or bar list, either. I wouldn't consider this useful. --Lukobe 06:42, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Catholic Hill"

Is there a citation for Capitol Hill being known as Catholic Hill? (There really is a Catholic Hill in Seattle, in South Park.) It seems plausible, because there was a large historic Catholic presence on Capitol Hill (though I'm not sure if more so there than First Hill). Anyway, I think this should be either cited or removed. - Jmabel | Talk 03:05, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Club Z

Club Z is listed as a bar. Pretty sure it is not (and never was) a bar. Originally named the Zodiac Social Club, it is basically a gay men's sex club, a so-called bathhouse. Christopher Frizelle wrote a rather good article about it recently in The Stranger, "Bleak House". - Jmabel | Talk 00:18, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pride Parade

The attendance for the downtown Pride Parade is incorrectly listed as 75,000. Even the specific article cited by the author from the Seattle PI says 150,000 and later on the crowd was estimated at closer to 200,000 [3], the largest in the 32 year history of this event. No where was the crowd at the "March on Broadway" for 2006 estimated to be as high as 50,000.

[edit] Clean Indoor Air Act / Smoking Ban

Regardless of how the strictest smoking ban in the nation affects the neighborhood, it DOES have an effect. Whether the effect is good or bad is not for us to say, obviously, but can range from healthier more productive bars and clubs attracting patrons with their smoke free environments or an increase in restaurant revenue at the cost of bar revenues, to noise complaints from everyone being forced outdoors, to changes in the way clubs have to operate, to the legal quirkiness of making an entire entertainment corridor smoke-free my way of business doors being within 50 feet of each other the entire commercial length of Broadway, Pine, Pike, Olive, etc. I recommend we discuss a way to incorporate this information into the article. Divinus 00:53, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lists

Think we ought to move the Landmarks and institutions, Coffeehouses and bars, and similar lists to a subarticle or convert to prose? --Lukobe (talk) 23:39, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

I'd be for a combination of both: some prose here, more exhaustive lists elsewhere. - Jmabel | Talk 01:26, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Cool, thanks. --Lukobe (talk) 04:04, 15 December 2007 (UTC)