Talk:Can (band)

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Can (band) was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. Reviewed version: October 15, 2006

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More information about this article... The following comments have been left for this page: I rated the article as B-class. It's a strong B, but short of good article status as some parts later in the article are somewhat unreferenced.--HisSpaceResearch 10:31, 23 December 2006 (UTC) (edit)

Contains Everything2 material added by HexFailure.

I added a Tago Mago link and transferred the album cover picture and some of the write-up to the new article. Deleted the old box and left a gaping white space that I might do something about. --Demflan

I have made album pages for each of the band's albums and would like to continue to improve everything Can-related on Wikipedia. - User:HisSpaceResearch

MAJOR neutrality issues with that last sentance of the introduction , IMHO. —the preceding comment is by The Penguin - 12:31, 30 March 2006: Please sign your posts!

Allow use to have NO idea what sentence you are talking about... --LimoWreck 08:56, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

"Generally held to be the finest" - that is an opinion, not a fact.

Image in public domaine?Annlanding 18:34, 25 September 2007 (UTC)Annlanding

Added info about the vocalists the band tried in 1976, as well as correcting the amount of times Radiohead covered "The Thief". Rhinowing 23:02, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] CAN as an acronym

I believe that CAN means something to the effect of Communism, Anarchism, Nihilism can't anyone confirm this and subsequently add it to the page?

I did so. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by HisSpaceResearch (talk • contribs) 17:59, 5 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Failed "good article" nomination

This article failed good article nomination. This is how the article, as of October 15, 2006, compares against the six good article criteria:

1. Well written?: Weak pass. The prose is decent, but trivia sections truly have no place in good articles.

2. Factually accurate?: Fail. Ethnomusicology is the study of world music, and it should be clarified that world music has influenced the band, not musicology. Additionally, there are not nearly enough references. There's a lot of analysis that very well could be original research (such as Mooney's voice sounding like James Brown). Also, I don't consider the band's website a reliable source for citing its influence on other music (see the lead).

3. Broad in coverage?: Pass.

4. Neutral point of view?: Pass.

5. Article stability? Pass. I'm assuming all the recent edits were to bring it up to GA status.

6. Images?: Fail. None of the images have fair use rationale.

When these issues are addressed, the article can be resubmitted for consideration. Thanks for your work so far. -- Cielomobile ^{talk / contribs} 04:48, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

• Regarding Issue 2: I don't think Mooney sounds like James Brown. Sorry, but it seems as though the comparison was pulled from a hat. Why not compare him to Jim Nabors? Also wondering about assertions such as "This world music trend was later more clearly exemplified on albums such as Ege Bamyasi (the name meaning "Aegean okra") [and] Future Days." I could see how this would apply to Can's later albums, but I'm curious as to why those two were labeled as such. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 05:58, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

OK; I've improved various articles related to Can today and with new knowledge of how inline citations work, I may give the attempt at making this a good article another go.--HisSpaceResearch 09:46, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use of images

All the images qualify for fair use, as they're low resolution images of album covers. Check any of the individual images for details. This means that only the second of the criteria (now that I've merged the trivia section with the main article) needs work...

--HisSpaceResearch 00:45, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. You could use the Tago Mago album cover, for example, in the Tago Mago article and it would qualify as fair use. Tago Mago is mentioned in Can (band) but I'm not sure that the inclusion of the album cover qualifies as fair use. Frankly, in the context of the Can (band) article I think the album covers serve in more of a decorative capacity (which is not fair use). -- Gyrofrog (talk) 06:31, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

So does that mean I'd be able to take photographs of the band themselves from their official website and put them in this article and it'd still count as fair use? If so, I may do that and remove the album covers.--HisSpaceResearch 07:51, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Not unless the website(s) explicitly say that the images may be freely reproduced (and even that wouldn't be fair use, it just means we're allowed to use them, there's a difference). It would not be fair use unless you were specifically writing about the photograph itself (e.g., the photograph was sufficiently notable that it had its own Wikipedia article). -- Gyrofrog (talk) 05:12, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reebop

The Can DVD claims that Reebop died in 1982, although many other sources suggest that he is still alive and performing music under the name Remi Kabaka [9] and has worked in 2004 with Gorillaz[10]

None of the links in this passage points out a connection between Remi and Reebop. I'd say we remove this passage. Quickie 11:07, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I've just discovered that the Remi Kabaka who is working with Gorillaz is actually the old Remi Kabaka's son, to further confuse matters. Still if you do a Google search on Reebop and "Remi Kabaka" there is surely some connection... --HisSpaceResearch 18:29, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Alright, I've made edits to the Rebop page as well as here, and added him to the "possibly living people" category.--HisSpaceResearch 19:16, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

The final word on Reebop: see the Rebop Kwaku Baah article, in which it has been confirmed that he died in 1983.--HisSpaceResearch 10:33, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Miles Davis influence?

There are a couple of places in the article that assert Miles Davis (and/or his producer, Teo Macero) influenced Can. I, for one, would point out similarities between the two, but has anyone in the band actually acknowledged Miles as an influence? If not then this seems like original research. I think it would be better to mention something verifiable, e.g. that Holger Czukay was a student of Stockhausen, and that Miles cited Stockhausen as an influence. And I could cite an old CD review that points out similarities between Miles' music and Can's. But I, for one, do not know of Can actually being influenced by Miles. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 00:31, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I think it's more likely that the influence comes from Stockhausen, so I would definitely mention him before referring to Miles Davis. I'm sure that Davis was an influence on Can, but the fact is that Czukay was a student of Stockhausen, who was working with tape editing before Miles Davis.

Thesexualityofbereavement 19:23, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I think this article could benefit from a complete rewrite

Most of the article is laced with little tidbits of information that cannot be easily attributed (see WP:ATT). I know that I heavily contributed to this article, but that's when I was less experienced with Wikipedia. I think the article needs to be taken apart piece by piece and then rewritten. And if I don't have the motivation to do that, I doubt anyone else does. I've tagged it for the moment with a rewrite.--h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 18:03, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to get this up to good article status at least, and possibly even featured one day, but there's a considerable amount of work to be done before then.--h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 18:03, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

And this article still contains portions of everything2 material copy and pasted from years ago. A complete rewrite is definitely in order.--h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 18:06, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I wrote the original everything2 writeup that this article still seems to be loosely based on, and you are quite right, it was for the most part unencyclopedic. It was written informally, and then copy/pasted here years ago, before I really understood the purpose of Wikipedia. At some point I will go through this whole article and remove any of my old skeletons of trivia and opinion unless they can be easily verified. Lfh 11:20, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Influence

Can are one of the bands-de-jour who are name checked by hipsters everwhere. We should try and get this article and the articles on Tago Mago and Ege Bamyasi in better shape. I'll stick random notes on this talk page. LCD Soundsystem's single North American Scum apparently features a can bassline (not sure which track). !!! have a song "Dear Can" on Louden Up Now. Beck has apparently covered "I'm So Green" from Ege Bamyasi. That track has been sampled/influenced other people as I recognised the chord progression near the end as soon as I heard it. Of course that's original research but it's still annoying me trying to work out where.. Secretlondon 21:56, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

As I've said it needs a rewrite because it contains copy and pasted material from everything2.--h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 06:25, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Can-Tago Mago (album cover).jpg

Image:Can-Tago Mago (album cover).jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 18:40, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I've done a rationale for the album article and removed the image from the band article. Secretlondon 04:27, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Can-Soon Over Babaluma (album cover).jpg

Image:Can-Soon Over Babaluma (album cover).jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 18:40, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I've done a rationale for the album article and removed the image from the band article. Secretlondon 04:27, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Can-Rite Time (album cover).jpg

Image:Can-Rite Time (album cover).jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 18:41, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I've done a rationale for the album article and removed the image from the band article. Secretlondon 04:27, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

I've gone through the album articles adding a fair use rationale for each album cover image. This should stop them being deleted. Secretlondon 04:47, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Six hour long Berlin concert?

Anyone want to come up with something more substantial than that? A date for the gig perhaps? Maybe even some sort of recording for a link-to? -Gohst (talk) 07:24, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Contradiction

This article states that "In the autumn of 1968, the band enlisted the creative, highly rhythmic, but unstable and often confrontational American Malcolm Mooney, a New York based painter (who in fact had never sung before)" while Mooney's wikipedia entry states "Mooney began singing in high school, and was a member of an a cappella vocal group known as the Six Fifths[1]." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Citizenkeith (talk • contribs) 22:10, 13 May 2008 (UTC)