Talk:Bommersvik

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I fixed up the grammar and spelling as best I could (I can't be absolutely certain about the tenses that were intended).

This line I just removed because I don't know what it is supposed to mean (I'm not sure it's even in a single language): ON Bommersvik have ollså many intreantional conffrens halld ex International Union of Socialist Youth congress in 1989.

(It could be the source citation but I can't tell) RJFJR 04:04, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

I think I know what it means:

In Bommersvik many international conferences have also (been) held. (For) example the International Union of Socialist Youth congress in 1989 (was held). Dr.K. 05:24, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Introduction reads like an advertisement

Well, I'm not sure enough to put up a tag, but what the hell. Weasel words like "unique" and "beautiful" are used, and the place is compared to a socialist utopia. What do you think? Jobjörn (Talk ° contribs) 18:00, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Well what can I think? I put them there. Obviously I think that they are not weasel words. Weasel in my mind is a word that surreptitiously tries to convey a meaning with no proper verification. For example many historians assert... leads you to believe that a lot of historians assert a point. If you don't properly back up this claim with citations you just weaseled the reader. Obviously that's not the case here. Words like beautiful and utopia actually hit you over the head with their intent. Now why did I use them? Let's not forget that I only overhauled the article from the original version by Wolfmann. In the beginning I thought it was some kind of prank. However the more I got into it I realised that this place is part of socialist History that I never knew existed. Olof Palme was initially the only familiar name. Wolfmann, in an early version, calls it a socialist Mecca. Having done some research during cleanup of the article I understood where Wolfmann came from, so I tried to convey his sentiments as I overhauled the article. Why, I even learned some Swedish in doing so! To cut the story short I do believe that this is an exceptional place, even though I never even flew over Sweden let alone visit Bommersvik. The information contained in the article, I think, makes it clear that this is a beautiful place with remarkable history.

Is there no acknowledgement for beautiful or exceptional places in Wikipedia allowed, if properly backed by evidence? Maybe not. Sometime ago a user put up a tag but Wolfmann removed it. I did not respond because of a perceived conflict of interest, but since you were kind enough to ask prior to putting it up I felt like replying.

Thanks for the opportunity. Dr.K. 18:34, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your swift reply! I believe matters should always be raised on talk pages before cluttering articles with scary notices.

By "weasel words", I mean terms that are subjective in nature. Concepts like "beauty" can't be verified, although we could write "according to person A, place X is beautiful" we shouldn't write "place X is beautiful". It's a point of view-statement, and should be avoided according to this section in the Manual of Style.

I've now read the rest of the article, and it's a very good one. I'm surprised to see it hasn't been nominated for "Good Article" status. All I think it needs is a slight re-write of the introduction. Would you mind if I gave that a try? Jobjörn (Talk ° contribs) 18:44, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your courtesy. I really appreciate it. Of course you can modify it any way you see fit. Thanks also for your kind comments. I started this as a linguistic experiment and now it has become a real article. It's a great outcome. But I am relieved that someone else with the right credentials is able to contribute to it. Take it on. It's after all a Swedish article. Thanks for the hospitality. Take care. Dr.K. 18:54, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

That it's Swedish hardly matters though, even though I'm Swedish I've hardly heard about it and don't know much about it. I found my way here through reading about the protests in Burma right now. I'll get on the re-write though. Jobjörn (Talk ° contribs) 19:03, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree in principle but in practice it is good to speak the language. I'm a member of different Wikiprojects myself and nationality should not be a primary criterion for contributing. But there are many resources in the Swedish Wikipedia about it and about Ivan Ohlson which can only be adequately covered by someone who speaks the language fluently. I share the feeling about Bommersvik as I was completely unaware of its existence at the beginning. Now however there exists a great opportunity to enrich the whole article, not only the introduction. Good luck and take care. Dr.K. 19:17, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I believe that the table should be left out of the article. It is not very detailed and makes litte sense. It is also very subjective - who is responsible for selecting whom should be on the list? Who defines "famous"? Having a line in the preceding section referring to "the table below" when the table is in another section is also odd. I have made an edit that I hope is an acceptable compromise, what do you think of it? Jobjörn (Talk ° contribs) 22:15, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

If you go back in history you'll see that Wolfmann had the same names that appear in the table icorporated in the main text. However this looked ungainly so I created the table where I copied Wolfmann's names. Since I am an inclusionist I prefer we kept the original author's intent. Detail in this case doesn't matter as the table just tries to show who came to Bommersvik. Detail can always be added later. These names are distinguished well known politicians and their articles appear on Wikipedia. That's notable enough I think. As to the section of the table we can always delete it and incorporate it in the parent section. I'll have a look at the edit and reply soon. Dr.K. 22:33, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Looks good. Now that the article is larger, Wolfmann's original idea of putting the names in the text looks better without the need for a table. Originally, I had also looked in the Swedish article and they had tables for buildings and managers so I thought why not another one for international politicians. But I can live with this. Thanks. Dr.K. 22:38, 27 September 2007 (UTC)