Talk:Black belt (martial arts)
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| till re-write Oct 07 |
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[edit] Re-Write
Re did the whole thing, & now just removed a section of the 'meaning of belt colours' which isn't universal and doesn't really belong here in any case. --Nate1481( t/c) 08:04, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
I have reviewed this article against the criteria noted in WPMA's assessment section, and have promoted it to B class. Points that could be improved are:
- The article focuses almost exclusively on Japanese martial arts; it should be expanded to show the adoption of the belt rank system by many Korean martial arts, for example.
- The article needs more references (as already noted).
- The article could do with a picture or two, but these should be as neutral as possible (i.e., not all from one particular school or art). Perhaps a selection of black belts would be suitable—one with no embroidery, one with Asian writing, and one with writing (whether English or Asian) and Dan stripes?
- The article could be expanded with regard to ranks past 1st Dan. At the moment, it is shallow (in a manner of speaking) by only discussing the colours used for some higher ranks. Two points that come to mind: (1) in some schools, teaching experience is a significant requirement for advancement, and (2) in some (many?) schools, the very highest Dan ranks are more honorary ranks than anything else, and do not require a physical test for promotion.
I will add these points in, and perhaps other points as I think of them, when I have time to do a proper job of it (assuming someone else doesn't get around to it first). Janggeom 13:35, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
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- I take your point on the Japanese-centric bit, my main art, which does belts, is jujutsu so it probably is a bit biased that way however the broader things on using belt rankings in arts other than judo may not belong in this article, short of saying other arts now us them too, as the article is call "Black belt" not "Ranking systems". Image would be good can't do right now, but long term I'll see if I can get an image of a couple of friends who have kanji on their belts.
- On the other Dan ranks question I left this out feeling that more than a nod in the at direction was likely to takeover the article, creating an article on Ranking systems might be a good idea to put that kind of thing in rather than having it in an article on a specific part of ranking systems. --Nate1481( t/c) 15:11, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
- I take your point on the Japanese-centric bit, my main art, which does belts, is jujutsu so it probably is a bit biased that way however the broader things on using belt rankings in arts other than judo may not belong in this article, short of saying other arts now us them too, as the article is call "Black belt" not "Ranking systems". Image would be good can't do right now, but long term I'll see if I can get an image of a couple of friends who have kanji on their belts.
[edit] Promotion to B-class is premature
I think the promotion to B-class is premature based primarily on the number and relevance of the references (one is a line from a movie). Toss in a few more references - a pici of someone wearing a black belt and you might have a B-class. I wont demote right away but I think it should be.Peter Rehse 21:43, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
- Actually it's from the book the movie was based on :) but I take your point. However as an example of a popular view of black belts it's fair as I doubt you will find any freely available surveys asking 'What do you think a black belt means' a couple more lines about black belts in a similar vein would be adequate collaboration in my view . It does need more sources (one of the reasons I didn't promote myself) but I think that a lack or sources without controversial info is not prohibitive of b-class. --Nate1481( t/c) 09:20, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
- Initially, I had the same thought as you (PRehse), but then I went back and actually read through the B-class criteria so as not to simply go on a personal feeling of whether the article was to that standard or not. It's clear that the B-class specification recognises that there are still significant shortcomings in an article holding that status. In looking at the article again, one thing I neglected to do when I decided to promote this article was refer to the sample B-class article and existing B-class articles. Having now done this, I concur that this article does not meet the B-class standard, as reflected by a combination of the formal specification and the standard of existing B-class articles. Janggeom 13:00, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
So lets toss in a picture. One possibility is the one found in kata which by the way is also B class without references.Peter Rehse 12:27, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Globalise tag
Was this fixed or dose more need doing? the complaint was it was Japaneses centric (which some parts will be as the idea originated there) but have the modern bits been changed enough? --Nate1481( t/c) 09:29, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
- Re-read; it is focused on Japaneses arts to some level so addition of alternative terminology for say TKD and some non Japaneses arts would be useful. --Nate1481( t/c) 09:37, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Further rewrite needed
Nowadays people can buy black belts from organizations and even children can earn "adult" black belts. These facts are not reflected in this entry. THere needs to be greater emphasis on the idea that a black belt is just a regular belt and that in most styles only the higher degress (or "dans") of black belts are considered qualified as master instructors. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.241.48.153 (talk) 19:50, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
- Not quite sure what your getting at, 1st/shodan is normally the 1st blackbelt rank, and while buying belts happens that is covered in other articles. --Nate1481(t/c) 10:39, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] This article focuses mainly on karate
I know that in some martial arts it take much longer than 3 years to get a black belt. I don't mean to go singling out any particular martial arts, but for example, where I live taekwondo is much easier to get a black belt in than say kung fu. I believe that the analogy that getting a black belt is like getting a bachelors degree is a terrible one, because not all martial art schools are standardized with one another. Some martial art schools are just a joke and give black belts to kids where as others are more serious. --Special:Contributions (talk) 03:40, 3 April 2008 (UTC)special contribution
- I have to say I can't see any focus on karate in particular, judo dose get a big mention as that's where it started. As to the bachelors degree, I still like it as a some degree's are easer to get than others and it also largely reflects the discipline being trained in, it's a lot easer to get BB if their is not much to the art so the relative level is the same. --Nate1481(t/c) 10:39, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
