Talk:Bilbo Baggins

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The article refers to Frodo as Bilbo's cousin, and in a strictly genealogical sense he is a second cousin once removed (or a first cousin once removed; he's both really). But in Tolkien's works Frodo is normally referred to as being his nephew, and as such I think it makes more sense to use the term nephew. --Adanadhel

Just noted all designations. Uthanc 14:58, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

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I think we should add more of his adventures in The Hobbit and his subsequent social standing in the Shire, including him being regarded as 'odd'. Just a thought :) --Sam

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As for dates, I had thought that Month Date Year T.A. is an acceptable notation. I don't think it's quite necessary to repeat 'of the Third Age' each time. Parelle

I agree. Even if the 'T.A.' didn't make it clear that these are dates in a fictional universe, the 3000ish years should. 'Of the Third Age' is cumbersome and repetitive. Korath

Contents 1 The Ballad of Bilbo Baggins 2 Rivendell, then Mirkwood? 3 Bilbo's Weapon 4 Cleaned up and copyedited. 5 Infobar image 6 Spoilers 7 Filmatization mentioning 8 The life span 9 Not the only one 10 Bilbo being the oldest living hobbit 11 Origin of the name Bilbo 12 Bilbo Baggins' resources 13 Death 14 Use of the One Ring 15 Translation 16 Name "translated"

[edit] The Ballad of Bilbo Baggins

The video has be taken off the site for the time being due to it being in violation of umpteen dozen copyright laws, but apparently the owners hope to get it back up there, so I'm putting the link here http://homepage.mac.com/evanbaumgardner/iMovieTheater6.html so it can be put back on the page when the video becomes available again. There's no point linking to a dead file. 62.252.32.11 00:34, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Rivendell, then Mirkwood?

I don't have my copy of the book handy, but didn't Bilbo go first to Rivendell BEFORE Mirkwood?

The following passage makes it seem te other way around. It also needs a fullstop before "Here" or a change of sentence structure.

"This led to an adventure which takes Bilbo and his companions through Mirkwood, to Rivendell, eventually reaching Erebor, Here, after the mountain has been reclaimed by Thorin Oakenshield, the Battle of Five Armies takes place."

Kyle R.

[edit] Bilbo's Weapon

Shouldn't Bilbo's weapon be Sting rather than nothing? Bilbo gained and used Sting during the events described in The Hobbit. He later passed it on to Frodo. Mikael Lind

[edit] Cleaned up and copyedited.

Made some minor edits and found no poor grammer. Avsn 20:54, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Infobar image

I don't like the image on the Infobar. Most people's vision of the character will be coloured by the film trilogy, and there MUST be a better image - see other main character pages for examples. Gtatler 16:35, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. We could have an illustration from an old book in the intro and perhaps the movie character in the end. Shandris 17:39, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spoilers

Don't you think that his biography = spoilers? "Spoiler/plot revealed"-tag? Shandris 17:38, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Filmatization mentioning

Why haven't we added something about that it will be filmed soon? link to GUF News article --Shandris 17:46, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Erm... did you read the article you linked to? It's a year old, and says that currently the muddy situation with the rights is an obstacle to the film actually being made. It's always possible that the lawyers will find a solution, but at the moment there's no solid plan for the film to be made. Since Wikipedia is not a crystal ball, we shouldn't say anything about such a nebulous prospect. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 17:02, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, it is OK to mention news reports about the possibility. Until it is made. And it almost certainly will be made. Carcharoth 23:12, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The life span

On the life span part did he die on September 29,3021. -- 70.187.27.179 14:03, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

The date of Bilbo's death is unknown except that it was some time after that point. --CBDunkerson 18:29, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Not the only one

Samwise Gamgee also gave up the ring voluntarily in Return of the King OrangeDog 22:40, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bilbo being the oldest living hobbit

it says in the article that bilbo is the oldest, isnt gollum the oldest?

The oldest hobbit ever from the Shire. Sméagol wasn't from the Shire. Uthanc 15:02, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Smeagol also wouldn't have considered himself a 'hobbit', as that term was developed in the Shire. The earlier 'holbytla', from which 'hobbit' was derived, pre-dated Smeagol's ancestors splitting off from the ancestors of the shirefolk, but is unlikely to have evolved the same way and would not neccessarily have been adopted as a 'group name' of the people themselves. The only such descriptions given for them are 'Stoors of the Angle' and 'river folk'... which may or may not have been their own terms for themselves. Thus, saying 'Smeagol was the oldest living hobbit' is rather like saying 'Cirdan was the oldest living Noldor'... it assigns him to an incorrect sub-group. Smeagol was the oldest known individual of the human sub-race of 'hobbit-kind', but Bilbo was the oldest known "hobbit". --CBD 13:14, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Origin of the name Bilbo

This is a query I have related to another article and maybe you, Tolkien enthusiasts, may help.

The name bilbo appears in classical English as a type of sword (see Bilbo (sword)), which is mentioned by Shakespeare's character Pistol in the Merry Wives of Windsor:

Ha, thou mountain-foreigner! Sir John and Master mine,

I combat challenge of this latten bilbo.

Word of denial in thy labras here!

Word of denial: froth and scum, thou liest! [1]

and is ethymologically linked to the Basque city of Bilbao (also known as Bilbo by locals and Bilboa in old English)

My question is: does anybody know for sure (and can document somehow) if Tolkien's name choice for this character was inspired by these cultural references (sword, Shakespeare)? I feel it's probably the case but I'd like to have more definite information, thanks. --Sugaar 22:34, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Maybe better forget it. I made some online search and, while I found a vague reference in Hexapedia, I also found an article that says that there seems to be a teddy bear of the Tolkien family that had that name [2]. --Sugaar 22:49, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

All this is interesting, and definitely worth putting in the article. Bilbo is a name that originated from Huguenot times in France, and from there went to the USA. For example, Theodore G. Bilbo. For the name history, see here. Put it in a section called "previous and later uses of the name Bilbo", or something. Carcharoth 23:10, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bilbo Baggins' resources

What did BB live on? He had his dwelling, and a garden sufficiently large enough to employ a gardener on, some moneys from his travels: but there must have been other sources of income. Sam Gamgee states that BB taught him to write - possibly personal favour for the gardener's children, or indicating a career. (The moral of the story is - give enough background detail to keep plot-hole complainers and fanfic writers happy.) Jackiespeel 19:38, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Bilbo was "independently wealthy" through his parents. He is also stated as being the head of the Baggins family, and his property was evidently not just limited to Bag End, as the Sackville-Bagginses went through some trouble to have him declared legally dead at the end of The Hobbit, in hopes to acquire the title.

Given that the Hobbit economy seems to have relied on growing food for export to the Dwarves of the Blue Mountains (Dwarves did not grow their own food, and they had to buy it somewhere — Dwarves visited the Shire and were quite well-known so this is quite likely) and limited export of Pipeweed (probably in the later Third Age first only to Bree, but later also to the Dwarves, and to the Men of Dunland [stimulated by Isengard]), we can assume that the Hobbit economy was an agrarian one. Certainly the Big Families all had their own ancestral lands, and the Farmer Maggot chapter indicates these farms were well-defended against thieves. Therefore Bilbo, as head of the Baggins family, probably got his income through his family's farmlands. When he left for Rivendell Frodo inherited all his possessions, again presumably including the Baggins Farms. Frodo sold Bag End (and ONLY Bag End) to Lobelia and Lotho, he must have remained the head of the family. And later he left Bag End (again, ONLY Bag End) to Sam: his distant relative Ponto Baggins inherited the family title, and presumably with it, the tithes to the Baggins Farms.

Now this is all speculation but it fits the facts well. It may also help explain why Gorhendad Oldbuck crossed the Brandywine in 2340 and created Buckland: his ancestral lands in the Marish were filled to capacity, and his growing family probably had no farmlands left. -- Jordi·✆ 22:49, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Some things could be more clearly stated in the text...

There is room for research (though outside the remit of Wikipedia) on "the economic systems of fantasy worlds" and "Economic Planning for Heroes" (including how to get the best deal on insurance and pensions). As it says on the "Things I will do if I am ever the Hero" pages (linked with the Evil Overlord pages: "If I find myself born or drafted into a universe wherein the laws of nature do not obey consistent principles, I will depart for an alternate universe created by a more reasonable author. ") Jackiespeel 19:04, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Death

I changed the death from "Fourth Age" to "unknown." He departed to Aman, the land of eternal life, and it is unclear whether he, as a mortal being, would die there or live eternally with the elves. Any guess as to his death is pure speculation. Papercrab 20:44, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Tolkien's writings that I can't quote right now - that would be far too convenient, wouldn't it? - indicate that the land does not bestow immortality to those on it. Elves were created intransient and men (which includes Hobbits) transient as a most fundamental point. Tolkien goes on to note that the two Hobbits would be able to pass away "right" - with dignity and hope. "? Fourth Age" is the best alternative in the text. --Kizor 12:11, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Use of the One Ring

In the article, it says "He used the Ring to its fullest ability when the expedition was captured by giant spiders in Mirkwood, and also when Thorin and his companions were imprisoned by the Wood-elves."

I'm not sure that this qualifies as using the Ring to its "fullest" ability. Could it instead say "He used the ring extensively when the expedition . . ."?

Mhambster 21:25, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Translation

Do we really need all the translations? Carl Sixsmith 18:01, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

No. (Other Tolkien articles for precedent - no translations for LOTR and The Hobbit). Plonked here: Talk:Translations of The Hobbit‎ Uthanc (talk) 09:57, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Name "translated"

I don't have any text cites handy, but as I recall, Tolkien says as part of the pretense that he was translating real ancient documents (Red Book of Westmarch), that the character's real name was Bilba, but that this was changed because "-a" is usually a feminine ending in English. This is mentioned in our article Westron. -- Writtenonsand (talk) 11:31, 16 January 2008 (UTC)