Talk:Berlin Blockade
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
| This article is within the scope of the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
[edit] 172
Sorry, I didn't see you were in the middle of making changes. Kingturtle 04:38, 11 May 2004 (UTC)
- That's alright. I was more my fault, I think. Also, sorry for perhaps making changes that might've accidentally reverted some of your changes during the edit conflict. 172 04:47, 11 May 2004 (UTC)
[edit] still needed
Still missing from this article is how the Blockade took place. Who was put in charge of its oversight. How did it work? How was it enforced? When was it thought up? Kingturtle 04:44, 11 May 2004 (UTC)
There is an important give away in the statement' The Royal Airforce had already started flying in supplies' etc. This is important because in fact -although its not- asusual- mentioned here-it was the British who decided to start there own airlift because the Americans refused to believe it was possible and did not want to join in.Only pressure from the British -and the example they started made the Americans finally join in. Its worth also pointing out another thing connected to the cold war that it was the British who set up and planned the creation of NATO which the Americans wanted nothing to do with and opposed.Only great British pressure finally brought the Americans in. Both the Berlin Airlift and NATO were started and created by the British governments in the face of American hostility. Needless to say as usual they are both referred to as American in origin. Note I do not have the relevant political details to hand but they are all available in British government papers Winston1911 (talk) 20:45, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
- This article still needs a lot of work. I haven't gotten around to expanding upon this part yet. 172 04:47, 11 May 2004 (UTC)
Is that all you are missing? Correct dates, references would be nice.
[edit] Japan
- (Stalin assumed that Japan and Germany could menace the Soviet Union once again by the 1960s.)
Do you have references? Japan did not menace the SU during WWII, at least openly. It was the SU who invaded the Sakhalins after the atom bomb.
Which was it? 2,245,315 tons or 2,325,809 tons of supplies? Both figures are given in the same paragraph. User:Karn March 6 2005
- this has been changes to 2,500,000 and 2,350,000, but someone might want to make these the same if the know which one is correctsay1988 22:22, May 12, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] How many airplanes crashed?
Does anyone know how many airplanes crashed and how many servicemen died?
- I've just seen the german movie "Die Luftbrücke - Nur der Himmel war frei" about the Berlin Airlift. Thanks to all our friends out there for making this possible! To answer part of your question: The movie states that 39 british soldiers, 31 americans and 8 germans died during the airlift. I assume this is accurate but don't take it for granted. Bluehorn 23:36, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
- Why did they crash? The article gives no explanation for this. Were they just routine aviation accidents? Were any ever fired on by Soviet forces? Other causes? This should be addressed in the article. Pimlottc 20:46, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
- I second this. How on Earth did they die? It doesn't make any mention of the circumstances at all. I'm sure they didn't just keel over one morning after the return fight.
- : Most of the casualties were from crashes due to pilot error during takeoff or landing. Possibly poor trimming of the aircraft or in-flight shifting of cargo (an EXTREMELY deadly hazard, even today) Though it's possibly worth mentioning that there was more than one jeep/truck driver lost by driving directly into operating propellers (this evidence is from R. Miller's "To Save a City" an excellent read)
[edit] Agreements for access
http://homepages.stmartin.edu/Fac_Staff/rlangill/PLS%20310/Berlin%201948-%20Isaac.htm says that there were formal agreements about free access to Berlin, but the article states otherwise. Which is correct? FireWorks 08:38, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] The Hump
I moved a bunch of details about Albert Wedemeyer into his article, since who he was airlifting supplies to in 1944 (etc) is not very relevant to the Berlin airlift. FireWorks 08:38, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
- I am putting them back. If the Hump had not been flown it is doubtful if the expertise would have existed to organize the Berlin airlift. That the major organizer of the Hump was assigned to same postion for the Berlin airlift is testament to that. --Philip Baird Shearer 15:40, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Berlin Food Drop ?
Who calls it the Berlin Food Drop ? The article needs improvement in this respect - the Berlin Airlift is the more usual term, I believe. In any event: (i) it wasn't just food - a lot of other items, such as coal was airlifted; and (ii) it wasn't a "drop" in the sense of an airdrop, the flights landed before unloading their goods.--jrleighton 01:02, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] NPOV violation?
It says "it was a terrible occasion", isn't that POV? 125.236.44.44 00:27, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
some twat has seriously messed with this page. can someone sort this?
[edit] Soviet Currency
There is no mention of the new Soviet currency. It is certainly worth mentioning that the Soviet Union put the blockade in place to win the race to introduce the new currency to Berlin... - Tom —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 163.1.42.170 (talk) 03:50, 12 January 2007 (UTC).
My father being stationed in Frankfurt at the time, I recall it very well and yes, aircraft crashed. They used Tempelhof airport, which was inside Berlin and surrounded by buildings or wrecks of buildings. And Berlin is sometimes foggy. Plus it took a while until the authorities figured out that dust from flour and especially coal in gunny sacks wrecked aircraft systems. I remmember that at the time, cynics regarded it as one of those heaven-sent sudden PR opportunities, wildly propagandized, and more a p-ing contest with the Soviets and providing supplies to ourselves, the Allied Occupation Berlin garrisons, than to Berliners. I mean, post-war Occupation policy was the rigid control of supplies to Germans--to starve the people, force Germans into the mines as slave labor and steal their coal (France, GB), although by mid-1948 with the new currency, things were improving slightly. So--what was the Berlin Airlift cargo ratio between supplying the thousands of our own people stationed in Berlin compared to providing any supplies to Berliners--wasn't the Allied-imposed severe rationing still in effect? 72.81.16.200 01:16, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] "Small Berlin Blockade"
The article presently reads: During the earlier "Small Berlin Blockade" in early 1948 the British Air Commodore Rex Waite has been calculating over the required resources which did show that in the case of another blockade it would be possible to not only support his own troops but the whole city. What was this earlier blockade? 195.137.79.247 14:12, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
- The soviets left the control council on 20. March and starting 1. April 1948 the soviets started to stop and search vehicles passing through their sector. Other transport obstacles were created at will including road blocks on the borders. Starting 3. April the British and US troops increased air transport to their Berlin sites to get around the street transport bottleneck = the "Small Berlin Airlift". Guidod 01:04, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Umm Unacurate?
It says that WWII ended in 2007 and calls the Soviets "bamas" and the Westerns "punk bitches" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.96.115.64 (talk) 04:01, 21 April 2007 (UTC).
[edit] Biased?
Is this page on the Berlin Blockade biased? it doesn't say anything from the USSR's point of biew, and then it failed to mention that the RAF and the USAF was violating the sovereign airspace of the DDR, and in general made the Sovs sound like the bad guys.
[edit] WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 17:05, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Chronology in Airlift-part
First talking about June 24, 25 then about July 27, afterwards (a following section), again about June 25... possible to make it in date-order?... Stephanvaningen 21:13, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Better leadoff image?
The map at the top of the article is great, it's one of the better bits of artwork on the wiki, IMHO. Buutt, maybe an image of a C-54 coming into Templehof might be more appropriate? Anyone have something suitable? Maury (talk) 02:59, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Repeated vandalism
I rolled this thing back about to weeks to cover off a string of improper edits over the last couple weeks. My apologies to anyone who made some proper edits that got wiped in the meantime. If anyone has the time to make a better job of it, go to it. Wiggy! (talk) 14:24, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Air traffic control
I noticed this sentence. "However, it must also be mentioned that it was Soviet personnel running the air traffic control towers on Tempelhof 24 hours per day." I can't find any references for it elsewhere. Can anyone clarfify this? It sounds a little fishy. Ozdaren (talk) 13:13, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
- I too am suspicious of this sentence. If it were true then the Soviets clearly missed an obvious way to scupper the airlift by withdrawing their controllers. It also seems highly unlikely that the US and British would allow Soviets to act as ATC on an airport where large numbers of military planes are landing. (I am also extra suspicious of sentences that start "it must also be mentioned that..." as they have usually been dropped in by editors who want to emphasize some point of view. I suggest we remove it pending a better reference. DJ Clayworth (talk) 20:32, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- Sounds like consensus to me: I've removed it. If anyone knows of a reference, do please re-add. Olaf Davis | Talk 13:28, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
I found it in this book: Luc De Vos and Etienne Rooms, Het Belgisch buitenlands beleid: Geschiedenis en actoren, Acco, 2006. ISBN 90-334-5973-6. (that's why I added the reference in the first place). Mr. De Vos is an advisor on foreign policy of the Belgian Ministry of Exterior Affairs. He also is a professor at the Military Academy (Koninklijke Militaire School) and at the Katholieke Universiteit Leuven —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.190.253.144 (talk) 13:17, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
- My uncle was an RAF pilot during the Berlin Air Lift and he tells me "absolutely no way" was there any Russian involvement in the air traffic control system. The controllers he spoke to on the radio daily during his flights were British, American and German only. With all respect to M. De Vos and M. Rooms I suspect they may have heard about "There was an obstacle in the way on the approach to Tegel, however. A Soviet controlled radio tower caused problems with its proximity to the airfield. Pleas to remove it went unheard. Finally, on November 20, French General Jean Ganeval made a decision. If they would not take it down, he would simply blow it up. So, on December 16, the dynamite was used. The tower fell, and the obstacle was gone" and misunderstood what the Soviet radio tower's role was during the lift.
- Can we please leave this comment out of the wiki article until any other citation can be found. It is such a remarkable and noteworthy prospect that it surely must have been recorded by someone's history of the lift 21stCenturyGreenstuff (talk) 14:04, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
