Talk:Baja 1000

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Contents 1 Me having edited out "hardest" and "longest" 2 Overall winners section 3 Baha Silt 4 Off-road class link

[edit] Me having edited out "hardest" and "longest"

OK, I stand by the removal of "hardest", but "longest" can be discussed, as it depends if you include rally raids such as the Dakar. Harald Hansen 17:32, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Overall winners section

I like the direction that the article has taken by including the list of winners. I like the layout of the first reference because it lists both the motorcycle and truck/car overall winners. I think of the truck/car winner as the overall champ instead of the motorcycle champ, but I realize that the motorcycles are generally actually much quicker. I think that both types of winners should be included. I think this would be best accomplished with a table. Should the list be broken out into its own article? How could be name the article so that all class winners are not added to the table (or should they be added to the table)? Royalbroil ^T : C 14:10, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Score results are broken down into overall finish position and class overall position [1]. Media and fans like to create there own overall category but there is only one overall finisher list and wikipedia should be clear on the distinction between overall and class overall. Two overall leaders is technically wrong as the second reported overall leader is usually 2nd or 3rd overall. The correct way to report the overall finishers for the 2006 results would be similar to below.

1st overall and 1st bike: Steve Hengeveld
2nd overall and 1st four-wheel vehicle: Andy McMillin

For an off-road fan site listing two overall finishers is fine but wikipedia should be technically correct.--I already forgot 19:51, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I LOVE the images that you added! I was thinking that the motorcycle vs. trophy truck (or 4WD) vehicle-type should be presented with their overall finish like you indicated (the first trophy truck finished second/third overall, etc.) I will make up a sample table with my thoughts here in the talk page so we can discuss when I have a little more time. Also, the paragraphs that you added are excellent, but they don't list a source. You should source it. Do you need help with learning the referencing? Check out WP:REF. Royalbroil ^T : C 14:05, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm holding off the sources until I get the bulk of information on the page so I'm not providing redundant refs. Now that the info is there, it can be verified with basic search terms that also may lead to more detailed info that may be added causing ref changes. Once I get the bulk up, I can start the fact checking and reorganizing the info. If this is a problem, I will change my strategy. --I already forgot 18:42, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I have no problem with waiting to source until we choose what direction to head with the table. Do you think we should make the winner's list in a separate article? I'm leaning to including it in this article.

Here's my first stab at using tables for the winners list.

Alternate 1

Year	Motorcycle winner	Motorcycle time	Motorcycle overall finish	4 wheel winner	4 wheel time	4 wheel overall finish
1967	Ted Mangels, Vic Wilson	27:38	1st	Joe Smith (simulated)	1:13 (simulated)	3rd (simulated)
1968	Larry Berquist, Gary Preston	20:38	1st	Joe Doe (simulated)	100:00 (simulated)	47th (simulated)

Alternate 2

List of motorcycle winners

Year	Winner	Time	Overall finish
1967	Ted Mangels, Vic Wilson	27:38	1st
1968	Larry Berquist, Gary Preston	20:38	1st

List of 4 wheel winners

Year	4 wheel winner	4 wheel time	4 wheel overall finish
1967	Joe Smith (simulated)	1:13 (simulated)	3rd (simulated)
1968	Joe Doe (simulated)	100:00 (simulated)	47th (simulated)

I like alternative 1 best. Royalbroil ^T : C 04:36, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Looks good but I'm not sure on a couple points. Example 1 is 40 table rows that double line breaks on a 800x600 screen and 80 table rows for example 2 and 3. It would also make sense to list the 1st overall first in example 1 for that year . I would really like to see a list of the overall winners and then possibly a link to the class breakdown/overall and race details (start finish locations, name, mileage, dates) for each year.--I already forgot 16:29, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't see the two line high rows as being a problem. I get that on a 1024x768 monitor too. I do want to see both the motorcycle and 4 wheel winners listed in this table, as I believe that both are very important. I usually see the 4 wheel winner listed as the overall winner, but I disagree with that shortsightedness. So I want to see both type of winners listed.

I think that the best way to breakdown the classes, race locations, etc. is to write an article for each event. The Indy 500 has an article for each event. There should be no problem with notability. I proposed deleting the 1990 Daytona 500 article (as it was created by a vandal and it didn't fit WikiProject NASCAR's organizational structure), but the article survived AfD. So other precidents exist. Royalbroil ^T : C 17:20, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

An anon contributor just changed the winners list for the last 3 years from the motorcycle winner to the 4 wheel drive winner. This is why I want to see both types of winners here. Royalbroil ^T : C 05:46, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. The problem is that there is misleading information on who the overall winners are on various websites. The ambiguity is caused by incorrectly listing the motorcycle as the overall on motorcycle sites and the 4-wheel sites listing the 4-wheel vehicles as overall, or listing both as the overall without a clear definition of who actually is the overall. There is only one overall and it should be clear who the overall winner is. There has been and always will be a conflict between two and four wheels so I expect many anon users changing it over time but the fact of who the overall finisher is still remains the same.--I already forgot 21:23, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree with your comments about there being different websites that list different winners. That is why I have proposed a table that lists both 2 and 4 wheel winners, and listing their overall rank regardless of number of wheels. That type of table should make both sides happy. What's wrong with giving a little more information to appease both sides? It gives the reader all the facts so they can make their own decision. Royalbroil ^T : C 05:39, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

While I'm relatively new to Wikipedia, shouldn't the results be based on the official results as posted from SCORE International? In November 2006 they published results going back to 1967. It also shouldn't be difficult to write a short story from each race using the post race release materials.--Dirtfan 04:53, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Baha Silt

Baha silt ought to have some explanation as huge traps of the finest powdery sand that can engulf entirely a motorcycle and stop in its tracks a four wheel vehicle. Esp as these traps can be 50-200 feet long -a distance long enough to eventurally slow a motorcycle or vehicle enough to stop it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.195.232.214 (talk) 11:30, 18 March 2007 (UTC).

Baja silt is overrated. Go around it or keep the speed (and feet for bikes) up and it’s a non issue...uh sometimes. :) Just another entry in the long list of obstacles. Definitely could be worked into a course description though. --I already forgot 20:35, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Off-road class link

I reverted the last addition of external links as the first link was a list of terms that did not relate to the Baja 1000 and more towards 4-wheeled off-road vehicles in general. The second link was to a page that was a generalized description of some of the classes for off-road events but not that of the Baja 1000 specifically. As such, some of the rules and specifications may not match that of the Baja 1000 classes specifically. As with all links, the information from the linked page should be included in the article and only linked to if the information cannot be added (such as list of information, copyvio if used, etc.) but in this case, the information is not Baja 1000 specific and is some what of an unreferenced fan page on the classes. If I knew nothing about the Baja 1000 and its classes, I would click on the link thinking it was a detailed description off the classes for the 1000 even though it is not. I guess it’s a bit over analyzed on my part and I do get a bit over zealous on accuracy so if others would like to see the page linked to that’s fine by me as it doesn't appear to be link spam. --I already forgot 20:30, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

I have re-added two "External links" previous "reverted". I found these links useful in attempting to understand what was involved in a friend attempt to build a Baja 1000 class 11 entry, so I thought that they might be useful to others. If someone, again, reverts these reference out of existence; would they please be so kind as to explain how these links fail to meet the Wikipedia criteria for External links? --Deicas 06:43, 10 April 2007 (UTC)