Talk:Authoritarianism

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Contents 1 Amending wrong edit 2 No title 3 Spain under Franco 4 Brave new world predicted 5 Indonesia 6 Recent edits 7 Citing Communism as Authoritarian 8 How about the broader meaning of authoritarianism? 9 Electoral authoritarianism

[edit] Amending wrong edit

I delete all parts of definition concerning "source of power" which were added by me previously. I found I wrongly interpreted ideas of Dr. C.W. Chan from the University of Hong Kong at that time. He only defines dictatorship in terms of "source of power" but I incorrectly mixed up the concept of dictatorship and authoritarianism. The contrasts should be democracy to dictatorship, and liberalism to totalitarianism. Salt 10:04, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] No title

"Another country once considered authoritarian is Spain, under Franco. Some considered Totalitarian are Cuba and North Korea."

My god aren't Nazi Germany and USSR under Stalin more obvious examples than Cuba and North Korea ?

Ericd 21:15 Apr 10, 2003 (UTC)

Yes, but the article classifies these as totalitarian, rather than authoritarian. I think these two articles should be merged: totalitarianism is simply the extreme case of authoritarianism.

-- Anon, 217.158.106.24

I'm not sure IMO totalitarianism has a strong ideologic support while authoritarianism is more pragmatic.

Is authoritarianism equal to non-democracy or not is an absolute monarchy a form of authoritarianism ?

Ericd 22:04 Apr 10, 2003 (UTC)

What would be your classification of an enlightened despotic ruler who allows for e.g. freedom of religion and to speak your own language, versus someone who does not, like Franco or perhaps Constantine (in the interests of forcing some national unification of a disparate population) or someone who wants to dictate all the aspects of your life and mold you into a drone to do his bidding such as Hitler, Stalin or Mao?

The first can approach a democratic rule in that it caters for the interests of everyone and is flexible (more libertarian) while the last is completely different. The rarity of totalitarian regimes suggests these are significantly different from authoritarian regimes to be classified differently. IMHO.

Truly libertarian regimes are rare (do they exist for long at all?) because every community needs some sort of rules and enforcement in order to endure. Otherwise it risks destruction from within.

A society without any rules and enforcement is known as Anarchy. This is different from a Libertarian regime. Also I believe that the phrase "Theocracies are always Authoritarian" should be changed to something less absolute. Finally I believe that a connection to Fascism should be made as these two go greatly together. Bengaska 02:39, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Anonymous (194.65.100.7), 4:15 July, 2003 (UTC)

"Giant Flying Brick Vandalism" I will put it back in order. Find the culprit. Hadrian

A number of related pages have just been edited by the same, anonymous user (81.52.217.7), all illiterately, some PoV. I've just reverted this article to the last unaffected version. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 22:23, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I've just tidied the English of the article, and found this sentence: “In addition, critics of the thesis of developmental authoritarianism point to India, which had impressive of social forces that forced a transition to democracy.” Something's obviously missing from it, so I've removed it until I (or someone else) can rewrite it so that it makes sense. It was also inserted oddly between two sentences concerning S.E. Asia, so it would need to be moved somewhhere more sensible. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 15:52, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Spain under Franco

Could a source be given for the claim about economic success, and something less vague and subjective than "noticeable" be used to describe it? Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:41, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

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I politely ask that the statement "For example, the Roman Catholic Church can be accurately described as authoritarian; however, in modern times it lacks the means to use force to enforce its edicts and is not a totalitarian establishment." be changed. It suggests that the Roman Catholic Church would use oppressive means if it had the power to do so. Such a suggestion is entirely a matter of oppinion.

I think it is clear that in the past the Catholic Church did use oppressive means to enforce edicts. However you are right that it the reason for the change is not the absence of 'the means to use force', but rather the modern perception that the use of such force is unacceptable has led to a change in the willingness of the Church to use force and hence led to a change in policy. I will npov the article accordingly. Ppe42 11:25, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

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I believe the section titled "Actions of authoritarian governments" is completely unnecessary in this piece. The author of it seems hung up on two current liberal agendas in the United States, namely gay rights and striking down of the Patriot Act. The section is something that in as little as 10 years will look sadly pithy, dated, and agenda driven, which should never be true of an honest definition. In fact, using the logic of these "examples of authoritarianism", any government that has any kind of law is "authoritarianistic" so long as someone wishes to break that law without facing enforcement. The examples used under democracy, indeed show democracy (or in this case, the US Republic)in action by its very definition... majority rule. I am not trying to defend democracy, I am just noticing unrelated agendas in this section. I would bet money that the bit was written by an outspoken gay liberal American, frustrated by the current state of his country. Any takers? (Personally I feel that England's government structure is better (in theoretical terms) than that in the US, though I think it would be better still if the royal family played a larger philosophical role.)

-JR

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Should discuss other relationships that are authoritarian. For instance parent-child relationships. Corporations are also very highly authoritarian as they are coerced cooperation. Thanks.

[edit] Brave new world predicted

Wikipedia is Big Brother, you sit there editing the past to conform to what is commonly assumed to be correct, you've started the end of human civilisation and freedom! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.31.9.88 (talk • contribs) 07:11, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Indonesia

Im a french student living in indonesia. I've lived in Indonesia for 15 years now and doubt that indonesia is an authoritarianist nation. It definitely used to be under Suharto's regime, but it is no more. This is a free country and probably the only free and democratic country in south-east asia. Thailand is authoritarianist though, well at least if people believe that Thailand is free country, then Indonesia should also be considered a free country.

Could someone change the map since I don't have the technical ability to do it... 

Thankyou I think you took that book 1984 a little to seriosly. (anonomus) Oops I meant to put this on the one ubove.(anonomus)

[edit] Recent edits

I removed following text: However, this can be contested because even allegedly individualistic societies such as liberal democratic states show authoritarian tendencies where individuals are ranked in social hierarchies and democratic decisions are made by powerful leaders. Authors such as Noam Chomsky have commented on this asserting that presidential elections are funded by concentrations of private power and run by the public relations industry.

First sentence is original research, and second is irrelevant to the subject. The source [1], as I can see, doesn’t support claim in the first sentence, nor it mentions "authoritarianism". -- Vision Thing -- 20:47, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

The above is actually a common POV, and WP:CITE is not an offical policy, while WP:NPOV is. 72.139.119.165 21:11, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

hi boys its matt clarke

[edit] Citing Communism as Authoritarian

National Communism (e.g. Stalinism) is Authoritarian. International Communism is not. I am inclined to change this citation. Muigwithania 22:14, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree totally, Communism itself, at least the society advocated by Karl Marx is not an authoritarian system at all. As a matter of fact it is described as a stateless society run by workers, sort of a collective direct democracy. Of course this has never been acheived and outside of the Anarchist experiment in Spanish Catalonia during the civil war never even attempted. Still the original reference to Communism was far to simplistic and vague, so I altered it. As a distinction should really by made between Marxism and Marxism-Leninism. I realize that most communists see Leninism as being the practical application of Marxism, not all communists do. Examples being Left communism, Luxemburgism, etc. and of course governments led by Marxists that have supported political openness. (Canadianpunk77 (talk) 22:11, 3 January 2008 (UTC))

[edit] How about the broader meaning of authoritarianism?

Authoritarianism is also a large factor in the development of belief systems. Reliance on authority as a source of knowledge leaves societies open to all kinds of distortion of the truth.

The obvious 1984 (George Orwell) reference to Doublespeak is only caricaturized portrayal of our current reality - media tells us what's going on - and we believe them.

The Internet is a force for moving towaard more first-hand access to info - but credibility of all netinfo is questionable! Where does that leave us? I'm not sure. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Robdashu (talk • contribs) 01:02, 13 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Electoral authoritarianism

This article mentions democratic authoritarianism. I am far from an expert on the issue, but I wonder if the name of this type of authoritarianism shouldn't be changed. There seems to be a growing body of literature that refers to such regimes as "electoral authortarianism." The Journal of Democracy had a series of articles using the phrase "electoral authoritarianism," including Elections Without Democracy: Thinking about Hybrid Regimes. The International Political Science Association held discussions on electoral authoritarianism. Also, there have been a number of books published on the series, such as Electoral Authoritarianism: The Dynamics of Unfree Competition. Applying the theroy to country studies, there is The Fujimori Legacy: The Rise of Electoral Authoritarianism in Peru. I think that the basic idea is that many scholors believe that such regimes shouldn't be called "democratic authoritarianist" or democratic anything because in reality they don't deserve to be called democracies. All in all, someone might want to at very least add the phrase to this article, and perhaps even start an electoral authoritarianism article. --Descendall (talk) 10:55, 4 January 2008 (UTC)