Talk:Asthma
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[edit] I thought this was an encyclopedia
Anonywiki added a number of extremely dubious, inflammatory, and completely unsupported statements to the Buteyko section of this article, including "The mainstream medical community regards the practice as extremely dangerous and it is frowned upon hugely." I removed these, because unsubstantiated claims like that have no place in an encyclopedia.
Orangemike then reverted my deletion, saying that I should request a citation first! Well, I have seen "citation needed" tags in a number of articles, and some sit there for months without any action. In the meantime, the spurious statement is allowed to stay in the article. What nonsense. Anonywiki, if you cannot provide references to support the statements you added, then I will remove them again. Logicman1966 (talk) 12:19, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
- re this thread's query, yes it is an encyclopedia and so dangerous claims must not be suggested to the readership without editorial responsibility (as per wikipedia does not give medical advice). So such a propostrous suggestion that an asthmatic in extremis should refuse oxygen, is not a dangerous one ? Hmmm just what is mechanism therefore that asthma may in extreme circumstances cause death ? I rather thought it eventually involves brain death due to a lack of circulating oxygenated blood ? As for sources - if someone were to suggest that underwater juggling is good for asthma and a newspaper reports that claim (ie a reliable source), then there is no need insist that wikipedia includes the claim just because no one in the medical community decides to waste their time giving it any serious consideration or expend the energy to write a rebutal - clearly we know the common (majority) opinion on this (PS uncontrolled asthma is an absolute contraindication for scuba diving, of which there are many published guidelines, yet none of these mention underwater juggling).David Ruben Talk 15:54, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
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- You respond to my complaint about people adding unsourced claims to articles, by providing an unsourced claim of your own (asthmatic in extremis should refuse oxygen)?? You didn't understand my point - dubious, inflammatory, or controversial comments should not be added to an article unless they are already supported by a reputable source. Otherwise, perhaps I should add my own comment to this article : "pharmaceutical companies prey on asthmatics by getting them addicted to over-priced medications that do not effectively treat the condition". Of course, I would add the "citation needed" tag....Logicman1966 (talk) 02:27, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Gender and asthma
I am new to Wikipedia and want to follow the protocols before making any major edits. I am proposing a new heading possibly called "Gender and asthma or Women and asthma".
There are several disparities that run between adult men and women concerning asthma which have not been addressed in the entry. It states,"being female, for persistence of asthma into adulthood." A statistic from the Asthma and Allergy Foundation of America, states that more adult females will die from asthma by 65% in overall asthma deaths. The Office on Women's Health Asthma Reseacrh recognizes that," Some populations, including women,are particularly affected by asthma." They attribute this to factors including difference in hormones, factors relating to pregnancy, and varient reactions to medications. They also acknowledge as a growing concern the adult onset of asthma in women at the start of menopause. Another study from the NIEHS suggests that, "sex hormones may play a role in asthma". This study found a correlation between girls reaching puberty before the age of 12 with an increase incidence of asthma being diagnosed after puberty at nearly twice the rate than girls who experience later onset of puberty. This study remarks that as the age of girls reaching puberty continues to decline the rate of asthma continues to escalate. I can find and follow through with all the footnotes and citations at another time.
I think this would be an appropriate addition to this article. Thank you, WH701 (talk) 22:39, 20 December 2007 (UTC)WH701
- I added a section on population disparities to the epidemiology section that tries to elaborate more on populations outside of the US (it was mentioned above that the epi section is very US-centric), talks about differences among various US ethnic populations, and includes what you stated about gender and asthma. Do you have the references?Aklauncher (talk) 06:21, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Papworth method
When page unprotected, Papworth method (a breathing technique with effectiveness demonstrated in a small clinical study) should be added after the meditation mentions in the alternative therapy section —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.165.11.209 (talk) 17:08, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Big Tobacco still up to its "health effects are controversial" tricks
Some of the comments above are difficult to understand other than as an attempt to extend tobacco sellers' decades-old "tobacco might be healthy" controversy-tricks to Wikipedia's asthma page, and to minimize or obfusticate the causative role of tobacco smoke as a cause of asthma.
Big Tobacco's attempt to create the appearance of health "controversy" wherever it can seems to me to have extended to editing Wikipedia's "Tobacco" and "Smoking" pages, and to deleting mention of Big Tobacco's circumvention of its advertising agreements by product placement in movies from the Product Placement article.
Just as product placement in media such as movies is devastatingly effective advertising because it appears not to be advertising, misinformation planted in Wikipedia is devastatingly effective because those expecting to rely on it expect straight information, and do not expect it to be skewed for the profits of the tobacco sellers.
To the extent that the tobacco sellers succeed in extending the appearance of "controversy" to Wikipedia and depriving a new generation of the information needed to make a fully-informed decision about becoming a tobacco buyer, the tobacco sellers' direct and indirect profits will be huge and worldwide. It's censoring and throwing half-baked, off-topic studies to generate the appearance of "controversy" amount to subtle vandalism, and to the extent these tricky context tamperings are effective, are designed to suggest to impressionable preteens considering smoking -- tobacco seller's favorite marketing group -- that the health effects of tobacco use are, after all, in doubt.
Tampering with Wikipedia to dilute the fact that tobacco costs are far higher than the price per pack should be viewed as a call to Wikipedians familiar with the science on the issue to ensure that
(1) the science and facts needed to evaluate tobacco's risks and costs in context, and the insidious marketing strategies of tobacco sellers, are not allowed to be quietly deleted from the relevant pages,
(2) that tobacco sellers' smoke screen of off-topic implications that tobacco use might be healthy is addressed by full factual context, and
(3) that health professionals realize that there is a continuing need for vigilance in guarding the pages where potentially profitable young customers for Big Tobacco will come looking for presumably-accurate information -- that making sure that information is reliable -- not jimmied to increase sales -- is an ongoing public health issue.
[edit] CHI3L1
According to the the New England Journal of Medicine, an allele of the gene CHI3L1 doubles the risk of getting Asthma. However, the section on genetics seems to have a requirement that the effect must be found in six populations or something, I can't figure it out, perhaps somebody misunderstood a QTL study. CHI3L1 has been mentioned in the major news media, so it needs to be added to the article. Phlegm Rooster (talk) 18:00, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] perfumes as a trigger
A better link for the well-recognized role of perfumes as a trigger is http://www.lungusa.org/site/apps/s/content.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=4061173&ct=5314727
[edit] Philippines, 12%
12% of Filipinos cannot breath: Asthma Insights and Reality in the Asia Pacific Region (AIRIAP) study (on the prevalence of asthma in 12 Asia Pacific countries) reported that, as of May, 2008, 10.7 million Filipinos are suffering from asthma, or 12% of the entire Philippine population. The study revealed that 4% of the patients are not being given preventive medicine, or only 963,000 asthmatics are using inhaled corticosteroids (ICS) preventive medicine, while only 23% of asthma patients are familiar with ICS.gmanews.tv/story, 10.7M Filipinos suffering from asthma - study --Florentino floro (talk) 11:58, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Some view points and a few problems
I am not an expert in asthma or allergy myself but have several members of my family who suffer from allergy one of whom has asthma (likely allergy induced asthma, pollen and dust mite). I have a basic understanding of the literature on asthma and a fairly good understanding on certain aspects of allergy literature and treatment, having researched allergy for my own allergies and from consulting with immunologists for my own allergies. I have three problems with the article. (1) My first problem is that the article is filled up with "citation needed" throughout it with about 20 "citation needed's". Why does a featured article have 20 or more "citation's needed" throughout it? (2) Another problem is the article correctly mentions that ozone can worsen asthma but then later in the article it lists ozone producing air filters as a treatment, without mentioning that these air filtration units fill rooms with ozone which can worsen asthma! I don't think that the text about ozone producing units should be deleted as it is relevant because so many people use ozone producing filtration units. It needs a sentence beside it saying something like "However, ozone has been found to worsen asthma and such ozone filtration devices have demonstrated no clinical benefit to asthma sufferers." (3) Also there is a part where it mentions negative ion producing devices without mentioning that devices which produce negative ions all produce ozone since ozone is a by product in negative ion production by such devices. I don't mean any offense to the editors here, I am pointing out a few imperfections as I see them. Overall I think the article is a very good article and the editors have done a good job. I do think the citations needed need to be resolved. I think a featured article should not have so many "citations needed". I also think the other points that I raised are important and I would welcome comments. I will add this article talk page to my watch list.--Literaturegeek | T@1k? 13:12, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Alternative to Meds
The person above who dismisses Buteyko to be included in the asthma page has obviously not read the Russian, British and Australian research. My ex-girlfriend was on Advair and other meds, until I sent her to a Buteyko class. Afterwards, under doctor's supervision, she stopped the Advair and cut her other meds by 50%, and improved her sports performance. If she were not so lazy about her breathing exercises I think that she could cut them more. I was not asthmatic, but Buteyko has improved my sports performance and free diving time. Although many physicians in school have heard of the Bohr effect of overbreathing (more CO2= more O2 released by hemoglobin to tissues; less CO2= less O2 being released by hemoglobin to tissues), which results in asthma and other hypoxia symptoms, most medical schools in the US have been slow to accept Buteyko Breathing Therapy, which has been helping people for 50 years, reportedly because most research was done in Russia and Australia (also by an asthmatic Glaxo ex-employee) and the pharmacology companies that fund US medical schools do not seem to acknowledge it for some reason... This is why slowed yoga breathing (as real yogis do) seems to reduce asthma problems, while huffing and puffing yoga and pilates routines aggravate asthma symptoms. Perhaps my comments will not be appreciated because the person who disclosed the problems on another wiki page with meds had his comments removed. 68.106.184.122 (talk) 06:45, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
- First, if you make further insinuations about the editors of this article, you will be blocked. Second, wikipedia articles require verification by reliable sources. We also do not give undue weight to fringe therapies. Just because your girlfriend improved in health, a random occurrence, it does not indicate anything except maybe your girlfriend improved in health. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 07:57, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
1. I'm sorry that you threatened to block me from discussion- I don't believe my words are an attack on anyone. An asthmatic ex-marketing manager at GlaxoSmithKline made such comments after his condition improved using Buteyko enough to discontinue his years of medication. Wasn't acupuncture considered "fringe" therapy until recently? but now it is covered by health insurance although there is less theoretical physiologic basis for it than for Buteyko. I am skeptical of new ideas myself, but have noticed consistent results with only beneficial side-effects.
2. Buteyko Therapy is based of the Bohr effect, which is measurable. Research has now shown that Buteyko significantly reduces medication needs in 85% of patients (probably the ones who are diligent.) Anyone familiar with medical literature will recognize some of the following sources, which I hope you consider reliable:
- www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov which published several studies, such as the 2000 paper "A clinical trial of the Buteyko Breathing Technique in asthma as taught by a video" (yes, just a home video) stating "Our results demonstrated a significant improvement in quality of life among those assigned to the BBT compared with placebo (p = 0.043), as well as a significant reduction in inhaled bronchodilator intake (p = 0.008). We conclude that the BBT may be effective in improving the quality of life and reducing the intake of inhaled reliever medication in patients with asthma. These results warrant further investigation."
- www.unboundmedicine.com/medline Bowler SD, Green A, Mitchell CA Buteyko breathing techniques in asthma: a blinded randomised controlled trial. [Clinical Trial, Journal Article, Randomized Controlled Trial] Med J Aust 1998 Dec 7-21; 169(11-12):575-8.
- Behavioral Interventions in Asthma- Breathing Training. Thomas Ritz, University of Hamburg, Thomas.ritz@uni-hamburg.de, Walton T. Roth, Stanford University and VA Palo Alto Health Care System
- American College of Chest Physicians- Hypocapnia and Asthma, A Mechanism for Breathing Retraining? Anne Bruton, PhD and Stephen T. Holgate, DSc. From the University of Southampton, Highfield, Southampton, UK.
- 2003 BMJ Publishing Group & British Thoracic Society ASTHMA Effect of two breathing exercises (Buteyko and pranayama) in asthma: a randomised controlled trial. S Cooper, J Oborne, S Newton, V Harrison, J Thompson Coon, S Lewis, A Tattersfield, Division of Respiratory Medicine, City Hospital, Nottingham NG5 1PB, UK (Buteyko was found beneficial.)
- Bowler SD, Green A, Mitchell CA. Buteyko breathing techniques in asthma: a blinded randomised controlled trial. Med J Australia 1998; 169: 575-578[Medline]. A medical trial run in 1994 at the Mater Hospital, Brisbane, Australia, clearly showed that asthma patients derive great benefits from learning the Buteyko breathing techniques. For example, usage of reliever medication in the Buteyko group was reduced by an average of 90% after six weeks, and usage of steroid preventer medication was reduced by an average of 49% after three months (with no significant changes in medication usage in the control group).
- Even the Quackwatch link had: "In conclusion, we found that those practising BBT reduced hyperventilation and their use of beta2-agonists. A trend toward reduced inhaled steroid use and better quality of life was observed in these patients without changes in objective measures of airway calibre." (Yes, I'm a skeptic! but the research supports Buteyko.)
After 20 years on constant meds, and then after a few hours of Buteyko self-therapy, my friend improved the same day. She also notices that whenever she follows the exercises, she improves within hours- quite a coincidence if random. I know that the exercises have helped my free diving and other athletic performance significantly, and helped my friends avoid post-event, (exercise-induced) asthma. Should we not explore alternatives that are being researched by Stanford and in other countries to help asthma symptoms and reduce medications? So that I do not offend you, I will not speculate why such research is not on the front page of newspapers. I'm sorry that I am not wiki-fluent; I rarely write here, but I am dismayed that such current research is not publicized for such an important and popular "disease". 68.106.184.122 (talk) 00:04, 10 June 2008 (UTC) Psnack (talk) 00:46, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
- OrangeMarlin - please don't threaten people with administrative action for making what amounts (at worst) to snide insinuations. it's unnecessary and overreactive. a simple 'please don't say stuff like that' would be enough.
- that being said, I am disturbed by the number of times I have seen (on various pages) wp:fringe used to silence comments concerning alternative medicine, so I'm going to butt in and start looking around. if anyone knows an example of this, please leave me a link to the page and appropriate diffs, here: User:Ludwigs2/AltMed. --Ludwigs2 00:32, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
- P.s. spread the word around... ;-) --Ludwigs2 00:47, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
