Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shart (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 06:19, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shart

The article was apparently previously AfDed, but the prior AfD appears to be for a totally different context. This current article is about a Bollywood film with no assertion of notability. Delete. --Nlu (talk) 05:19, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

• Comment: previous afd is for an article about a combination of excrement and flatulence. --Daniel Olsen 06:05, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

• Currently NeutralKeep May be non-notable and certainly is a stub, but I did a search and it looks like it very well could be a well-known Bollywood, at least in India (which, keep in mind, has a population 3 times that of the US). Given Wikipedia's drive to remove systemic bias it's important not to delete foreign movies and such too hastily. If anyone knows more about Bollywood movies they should comment. --The Way 06:12, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
• Weak Keep 1969 movie. The IMDB is [1]. The lead actor and actress are accomplished Bollywood stars. There were two other movies with the same title Shart (1953) and Shart (1986). Bejnar 06:13, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
• Weak Keep Positively minded because it is Bollywood after all, a bit dubious because I do not know how known this film is in India. It did not google too well, but that does not mean much, because of the different alphabet. There seem to be a lot of these films called "Shart". "Shart: the Challenge" (2004) seems better known than the 1969 one. Disambiguation page? --Pan Gerwazy 17:23, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
• Comment. Bollywood is a high output genre, and even given the concern about removing systemic biases, most Bollywood films should be considered to be non-notable given that high output. --Nlu (talk) 17:41, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

• Comment. I would accept another reasoning for deletion, but not because "Bollywood is a high output genre", given the terms of WP:NOTFILM. The notability criteria of film does not talk about output of the industry it's involved in; it only cares about whether "The film has been theatrically released nationwide in a country, or into 200 or more commercial theaters." If this film has, then it passes. If not, it fails. ColourBurst 18:20, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep - Research shows this is a common term. The user Nlu has been very quick to delete several articles, and has harrassed authors of such pages. .... added at 19:27, 25 October 2006 by 69.138.37.99
  • If you have a beef with the person who nominated the article for AfD, this isn't the place to air it. -- Hoary 06:07, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as nominated, in no way prejudicing the fate of a future article on the same movie in which one or more editors bother to say something substantive and verifiable about the movie, let alone the fate of an article with the same title that's about a different subject. -- Hoary 06:11, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - Bollywood movie. Since it's notable, it should stay. Here's a review, for instance. --A. B. 06:16, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

• Comment. This article was started (or at least the film version of it) was started by Commander Keane -- I've left him a courtesy message about the AfD. --A. B. 06:21, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I put some more links demonstrating notability on the article's talk page. If you don't like the word "Shart", the bad news is that there are two movies with that name and probably now two articles needed. --A. B. 06:36, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Just hope there's not a sequel or a series... --A. B. 06:37, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

• Comment - That review (which pans it, BTW ... "a weak fare in all respects") is about an entirely different film ... Shart: The Challenge (2004). —141.156.240.102 (talk|contribs) 03:41, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Comment (negative) - IMDb lists 4 Bollywood films named "Shart"[2] from 1954, 1969, 1986, and 2004 ... except for the 2004 film, each has received less than 10 votes, BTW, which certainly begs the question of "notability" ... OTOH, given the size of India, it was probably "theatrically released nationwide in a country, or into 200 or more commercial theaters." If this article is retained, then it should list the other three films as well, like a disambiguation page. (Please, do not create three new pages!) See the article's discussion page for the list with IMDb links. —141.156.240.102 (talk|contribs) 08:15, 26 October 2006 (UTC) —updated 03:41, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Comment In regards to the above comment; the IMDB is an English website largely focuses on English films; foreign films tend to get far less attention on it and it is not a valid way of gauging how important a particular foreign film is. Especially given how old the film is, it's not surprising that the film only got a few votes on IMDB; this has no indication as to the notability of the film. Given the size of India, with a population of a billion, it's highly likely that this film meets Wikipedia's standards. Furthermore, given, as I noted above, Wikipedia's desire to counter systemic bias I think we should act in good faith and keep the article, though it certainly could be expanded. --The Way 18:06, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep Bollywood flicks. Fight Amero-centricness, or something. --badlydrawnjeff talk 10:54, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
  • How many Bollywood flicks do you think should have Wikipedia articles? --Nlu (talk) 19:09, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
    • How many? As many as are notable in India, another English-speaking nation with many Wikipedia readers. If that means 100 or 1000, so be it. There's always more room for notable articles. A film that's notable in India is as deserving of an article as a film notable in the U.S. --A. B. 04:06, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
      • That presupposes that it's notable in India, which hasn't been shown. --Nlu (talk) 04:41, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
      • So far, it has not been established that this film is notable in India or anywhere else ... there are four movies with this name, and we don't even know what "shart" means in English. Look at the Filmography sections in articles for Bollywood actors (like Sanjay Khan or Mumtaz), and the links go to definitions of Hindi, Sanskrit, or Urdu words ... not articles on the films. Articles for award winning films like Khilona and Ghulam establish their notability, but ones like Baaghi and Gardish should be deleted per WP:NOTFILM. There are currently 536 Bollywood films in Category:Indian film stubs, and most of them have a lot more information about them than just "a 1969 film by <redlink> starring <unknown-outside-of-India>". —141.156.240.102 (talk|contribs) 05:01, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per many comments above, and to avoid systemic biases. Yamaguchi先生 06:58, 1 November 2006

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.