Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Greg Bravo (Gary Scott)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Petros471 19:37, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Greg Bravo (Gary Scott)

Nominated on behalf of Fortheloveofhampsters. --Xyrael ^T 20:08, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

For the record, this was done based on a {{helpme}} request. --Xyrael ^T 21:36, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Comment: For the record, and respectfully in deference to you being a senior Wikipedian, you may have been duped into helping him so that he can vote for deletion (though he has not as of yet)! --Countdewiki 03:56, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

• Na na na na, na na na na, Hey Hey, Strong Keep - CrazyRussian talk/email 20:18, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
  • wikt:TLDR on the talk page. Somebody else figure this out, I am at work. - CrazyRussian talk/email 20:21, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete since his official site is on Tripod. Just zis Guy you know? 21:37, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Fails the WP:MUSIC notability guidelines. We have verified that this singer was not the lead singer on the hit song associated with the band and he has no other hits. Ideogram 21:43, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as unverifiable. What sources there are outside individual's own site indicate that this was not the original singer and that he had no involvement with original recording or group. Check the talk page & archive for more details. -- JLaTondre 22:43, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as unverifiable. Closing administrator please overturn my vote to keep if a sources more reliable than Tripod.com and ATT@Home can be provided. Yamaguchi先生 19:57, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

• Keep as is or edit with suggested compromise made a number of times on the article's talk page. Verifiable evidence can be found here as is evidenced near bottom of talk page:

A number of verifiable links have been provided below in the form of easy to verify credible sources and links, which include:

1. The Official US Patent and Trademark site showing that “Steam” is a registered Federal mark bearing the same contact address as the Official Greg Bravo and Steam site which has a www address and is not a member page.
2. Contributions Mr. Bravo has made that are mentioned on the Freddie Scott and Vince Martell of Vanilla Fudge pages. He is also seen on the official Steam site, and in other media on the web performing with them and other notable artistes.
3. Performances that he has done under the “Steam” name, and under his own name at major events and venues with some quite well-known artistes and friends backing him up on stage can be seen here [1], and here as published on the official site of a major New York media market radio station [2] (click on the 3/19/05 link for the Steam and Rascals concert).--Musicknight 23:39, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

newly-registered Musicknight (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log) blocked for sockpuppetry. Just zis Guy you know? 11:26, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Comment: Please see the below remarks I have made regarding the issue of what is called sockpuppetry. - Ron Stabile

Please refer to Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-06-13 Greg Bravo (Gary Scott) for my summary of this mediation. Ideogram 23:51, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

• Keep since positive, official, and reliable sources that can be easily verified indicate that he definitely is performing as the lead singer of the band Steam, at least in the past two decades. No reliable and accurate sources that can be verified show that he is not or was not what the article says. From what I can see, Fortheloveofhampsters is also trying to mold history to meet his own beliefs and expectations without meeting the Wikipedia rules and guidelines on the Steam (band) article. His vendetta-like efforts begs the question of his true motives! He is acting like the subject of this article owes him child support or something? (Does he?.) :-) Very strange indeed. --Countdewiki 04:16, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

newly-registered Countdewiki (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log) blocked as a sockpuppet. Just zis Guy you know? 11:24, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Comment: Please see the below remarks I have made regarding the issue of what is called sockpuppetry. - Ron Stabile

• Delete. WP:MUSIC does not indicate that every member of a band that merits an article deserves an article of his or her own. This is particularly the case when the person joined the band sometime like 25 years after the band's only hit single, which appears to be the case for Mr. Bravo (Mr. Scott). --Metropolitan90 04:27, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per Metropolitan90 and JzG. Search for "gary scott"|"greg bravo" steam -wikipedia gets 134 unique hits, with nothing on him at all after the second page. [3] The ad hominem on Fortheloveofhamsters in this AfD do not make the keep arguments any more credible. Kimchi.sg 06:39, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. If the link can be absolutely verified it would be worth a redirect, but that's about it. Just zis Guy you know? 08:17, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

• Musicknight and Countdewiki are sockpuppets, see Wikipedia:Requests_for_checkuser#Musicknight, and have been blocked for one month. Ideogram 13:50, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

• Comment: I am the nominator of this AfD. Musicknight/Countdewiki indicate above that my references are unverifiable. This is untrue. There are two Billboard Books that have articles about the original recordings (Billboard Book of One-Hit Wonders and Billboard Book of Number One Hits). The story of the original recording can be viewed on-line at [4]--Fortheloveofhampsters 21:57, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

• Delete this is like two guys having a fight over a girl - really didn't have time to check all refs at work but can't seem to find any acceptable online about just who was in the old or new versions of the band - still waiting for the seattle paper to send me the registration confirmation to view the article -- M. LoCasio

• There are plenty of online websites that recount the early history, specifically the names of the band members. I am not sure if WP would consider them verifiable. For example, [5]. I had also revised the article Steam (band) several days ago to reflect this information but it has since been deleted by an anonymous user, 64.12.116.67 and 152.163.100.67. --Fortheloveofhampsters 23:50, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Comment: Geocities (or myspace, etc) sites are not reliable sources since we cannot tell with certainty who put the information up. Kimchi.sg 00:24, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

• Keep because it can be verifed that User:Fortheloveofhampsters was only created on June 16, 2006 according to his history tab, and only after User:JLaTondre was involved in a very personal furious exchange of edits over the article. LaTondre appears to be the one who placed the dispute tag on it. We used to call that "a clue" in my former job as a criminal investigator. User:Fortheloveofhampsters is most probably a sockpuppet or shill. Since I can easily verify the evidence presented to keep the article as it stands, I vote to keep it. However, I would vote to delete it if the article would not be restored without all that Times Square-like signage on it, and if the article was also to be left unprotected. - Ron Stabile (retired in sunny Florida)

Comment: User:Ideogram, I don't know what is going on here yet, but I also see that you are way more involved than you should be! Please do not delete my comments if you have nothing to hide. You, too, have been accused of sockpuppetry. IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE LEAVE MY REMARKS AND VOTE ALONE! - Ron Stabile

Fine, I'll let others decide whether an anonymous account making ad-hominem attacks is worth listening to. Ideogram 05:12, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

BTW, here's "a clue". Wikipedia is not a democracy, so ballot-stuffing won't work. Ideogram 05:14, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, and I agree about "ballot-stuffing" in any regard that you may have meant it. As for 'anonymous' you know my name and I know yours so what's your point? Oh, I did not register so you can't arrange to have me blocked if you do not like what I say like you did to the poor schnooks above? I am honest, and will stick the the FACTS whether you or anyone else likes it or not! - Ron Stabile

I also heartily invite everyone to look at the history tabs of every page involved with the article, including your own mediation reference (above), to see how well you edit out everything that you do not like that people say about you or your side of the story, and how you make the story lean only in your favor! I'm sure that the savvy administrators look at the tabs anyway, so take it light! And User:Ideogram, if you read the policy you would know that Wikipedia is a democracy and not a DICTATORSHIP! That is why it was created in the first place. If the shoe fits wear it! If not, don't worry about it. - Ronny Stabile

• Delete because since anyone can write or edit on here, leaving it on here may give someone the impression that Greg Bravo may have written this himself. Any entertainer would have to be out of his mind to engage in such cheap PR tactics or even want this. I don't know who is right or wrong about the above gibberish, and do not even care. The intensity and controversy is very interesting, though--ad nauseam. Emby --152.163.100.137 04:16, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

*Comment There is no reason to add my vote because it is pretty clear in which way this vote is heading, perhaps for the wrong reasons though some definitely seem to be right! It's hard to ignore the fact that this is all like whoever brings the most friends to a gang fight wins the day! There definitely is no fairness or impartiality involved, and that is truly remarkable for an organization that touts itself as an encyclopedia. Please stay away from the Beatles' articles! From what I can see above, my comment will probably be removed as though we were living under the order of the Third Reich. SunKing --71.249.8.236 18:10, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

• Delete ""Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye" in 1969, that later became an anthem at sports stadiums around the world." - sorry I have been in many sports stadia and seen even more on the box but I've never heard this one. BlueValour 23:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.