Talk:Arbroath

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This article incorporates text from the Encyclopædia Britannica Eleventh Edition, now in the public domain.

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Contents 1 Overhaul 2 Red Lichtie 3 The Shoppie website & forum 4 Copyedits/style 5 Football 6 Some ideas for expansion 7 GA?

[edit] Overhaul

Completely overhauled, with added local knowledge as a native Arbroathian : )

• some arguably tedious items excised from the Britannica entry, in the interests of readability. It can be re-added from page history should anyone care when the parish church's spire was renewed, for example
• most details of the abbey were removed and merged into the dedicated Abbey entry
• effort has been made to add/include as much appropriate local Scots as possible (kirk, drooth, fit i'the toon etc.)
• new info on smokie, pageant, seafest, etc.
• named the Drosten Stone
• candidates for dedicated entries: Auchmithie, Arbroath Smokie, St Vigeans, Carmyllie
• sections and categories

--Air 15:33, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Great Job! I've been avoiding it for three years, so I'm glad that you've risen to the challenge. Thank you. -- Derek Ross | Talk 00:37, 2004 Oct 20 (UTC)

[edit] Red Lichtie

An inhabitant of Arbroath is called a "Red Lichtie". I am fairly sure that this is a reference to the Bell Rock light which flashed alternately red and white for many years. Can anyone confirm this ? -- Derek Ross | Talk 08:15, 2004 Dec 17 (UTC)

Yep, particularly applicable to Arbroath FC (i.e. the Red Lichties). I'll ask around when I go home for Xmas. --Air 14:33, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Scots speakers say "Reid Lichtie" but we don't want that here do we? 84.135.242.133 10:21, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, red or reid - both good Scots words but if there is a consensus I would be glad to know about it! Anyway, red lichtie has referred to a native or inhabitant of Arbroath since late 19th century; the use Red Lichties has been taken on by the football club since approx 1970s. Hopefully not reid meaning the fourth stomach of a ruminant. → friedfish 12:07, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Shoppie website & forum

Arbroaths best website & forum is currently running with 388 members and the more the merrier , topics range from the present , past , local issues , photo gallery , theatre information , so welcome in !!

[edit] Copyedits/style

I have several copyedits to bring this article in line with the Wikipedia:Manual of Style, some of which I had made previously, but had been reverted. Here is why I have made some of the them:

• per Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(dates_and_numbers)#Numbers_2, "Whole numbers from zero to ten should be spelled out as words in the body of an article. Use numerals in tables and infoboxes."
• per WP:CONTEXT, "In general, do not create links to plain English words." In this case, 'schools', 'college', 'pond', 'students' and 'population' are widely understood words that need no links.
• "It's" = "it is". When you want the possessive form of "it", use "its".
• "HND" is meaningless to readers outside of the UK, and HND is a redirect page. I have replaced it by "Higher National Diploma (HND)".
  • The same goes for "GNER", which I have changed to "Great North Eastern Railway (GNER)".
• the Declaration of Independence page is a list of declarations of independence around the world. I have changed the link to the one in question here.
• King James VI redirects to James I of England, so I have fixed the link to that, but kept "King James VI" in the text.
• The article for Sir Walter Scott is found at Walter Scott, so I have fixed the link accordingly.
• Perth is a list of articles about Perths around the world. I have changed the link to Perth, Scotland.
• I have removed one or two repeated links, e.g., to "secondary school" per WP:LINK.

I trust that these edits that are consistent with the Manual of Style will not be blindly reverted. Ground Zero | t 13:33, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Looks fine to me. These links were originally direct ones for the most part. It's just that the other articles have been moved since the links were made. The people who moved them should have fixed the redirects when they did the moves but that is too much trouble for a lot of people. -- Derek Ross | Talk 15:09, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Football

This section says arbroath only has one team, maybe this should be changed to say one professional/part time team, or whatever there current position is, aswell as say there are many smaller teams like arbroath vics, the article is a bit murky.

Also, maybe a link to the aberdeen bon accord page, and let people know they were originally a cricket team, this would put things into context

Alan200305 10:40, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Some ideas for expansion

• Do any of the areas in this map need elaboration or contribute to the history?
• Also, what are the main streets in Arbroath? Are any of them notable or famous, or do any contain very specific links to Arbroath's medieval history?
• What's the town's area (I calculate 3 square miles approximately, but this would need sourcing)
• Railway link from Dundee to Arbroath in 1838 - what was its role, when was its demise and what caused it? what is its role today? (modified Orderinchaos78)

Orderinchaos78 03:02, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

It's possible to add a great deal on the local history of the areas in the map. In fact Arbroath public library has a couple of books published in the late 19th/early 20th century by the long-since gone Arbroath Guide which give more details than most people want to know. These are still part of the general lending stock and could certainly be used to bulk up he article. More recently a book was published by the local publisher (the Herald Press) on Street Names in Arbroath which gave dates and origins for most of the streets in the town and could likewise be used as a source book for the article.

As for the 1838 rail link, it's still alive and kicking, forming an indispensable part of the modern mainline east coast route linking Aberdeen to Edinburgh. Rumours of its demise are very much exaggerated. -- Derek Ross | Talk 05:48, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Blame my above comment on a complete lack of local knowledge. I'm from the other side of the Irish Sea originally. :) Orderinchaos78 15:58, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA?

I notice this article has been through PR and FAC. This article looks ready (or near ready) for GA status. Has anybody considered taking this forwards? The WP:UKTOWNS guideline may point out where there are gaps in material first though. -- Jza84 · (talk) 01:46, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree, it may have failed FAC but it should by the looks of things easily be eligible for GA.--h i s ^{s p a c e} _{r e s e a r c h} 19:17, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

There's something wrong with the formatting of the article. A "military" section appears below the references, while the panorama has been exploded to near Biblical proportions! I can't work out what's gone wrong, but these would be a barrier to GA! hehe! --Jza84 |  Talk  02:09, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I was able to fix both of these items. Thanks for the headsup. Hadrianheugh (talk) 03:58, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Still doesn't seem quite right yet, HH. -- Derek Ross | Talk 04:22, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Derek, do you mean with regard to the panorama or placement of "Military" section? Hadrianheugh (talk) 14:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm talking about the ref tag at the end of the culture section. It doesn't work since its "/" was shifted to the beginning. I didn't want to change it myself cos I thought you were still working on the article. -- Derek Ross | Talk 15:23, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Derek, thanks for the direction. I couldnt get the old link to work even by removing the errant stroke. I couldnt see its original citing in the article, but I found a new on line source, so its working now. If anyone wants to further tidy the cite caption or format, have at it. best regards. Hadrianheugh (talk) 18:37, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Excellent! -- Derek Ross | Talk 19:37, 10 April 2008 (UTC)