Talk:AR-15

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The front page says that the AR-15 was "designed by Eugene Stoner of the Armalite corporation who developed it as a smaller-caliber version of the AR-10." I may be wrong on this, but hadn't Stoner left Armalite before the AR-15 project started? He invented the AR-10, and it was someone else entirely who redesigned the AR-10 for .223 as the AR-15.... Right? --70.160.160.175 04:14, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Unexplained Redirect 2 Range 3 Vulcan Arms 4 avoid subjective eliminations 5 Legal Status 6 50 BMG? 7 Rare calibers? 8 External links section 9 Missing word? 10 Magazine Picture 11 More Info on AR-15 Clones 12 Interesting animation 13 AR-15 used in recent shooting in Wisconsin 14 Spec is wrong

[edit] Unexplained Redirect

I just searched for "black rifle" (a term mentioned offhand in a magazine article, wikipedia seemed the perfect place to look it up) and got redirected here. I can't find the term "black rifle" in the article or in this discussion page. It'd sure be nice to see a brief mention of this ?nickname? for the AR family, if that is in fact what "black rifle" means. Thanks in advance! 69.129.196.12 07:40, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Range

550? Is that meters, yards, feet? It sure could use a label. Cacophony 23:45, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

My guess would be meters. That's what most gun ranges are measured in, no?

Yeah, it's meters.

[edit] Vulcan Arms

I'm going to delete the Vulcan Arms link. Although they do make AR15 type rifles, they very inferior compared to the other brands linked, and it would be bad for people looking to buy one to assume they are quality.

• It should stay. If they are making them fine, this isn't a web directory, it isn't consumer reports. There is a link of manufacturers, and they are one. Wikibofh_(talk) 00:02, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
• There are lots of other makers too that are not included. I feel it is improper to be advertising (or close enough to) for a sub-par company. Besides, it is not essential that EVERY company who makes them be listed.

• • Then include them. But your view is WP:OR. The 2 options as I see them are

1. Leave it in and include other manufacturers
2. Delete the whole section on manufacturers.

Anyone else want to chime in? Wikibofh_(talk) 02:12, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

This is an encyclopedia. If you want to write an objective entry on the history of Todd Bailey's companies, with a biased account based on the wealth of customer evidence then that is the proper way to handle this. Removing a hyperlink because a person believes they're "helping out" in some way is unreasonable in my mind. That's my own .02 cents Thatguy96 11:08, 13 January 2006

[edit] avoid subjective eliminations

I would advise people to avoid wholesale deletions. While Wikipedia is NOT a promotional site for any particular brand, it is reasonalble to mention different brands as long as they are all represented with an unbiased perspective. With regard to the individual who deleted the "varients" section because he thought it was an promo for Bushmaster, I understand the need to edit and remove the bias, but the "varients" section is valid and could be expanded with very useful information. I put it back without the Bushmaster reference. I would encourage the community to expand this section since "varients" are a big part of the AR-15 weapons system.

I assume you mean "variants".

[edit] Legal Status

The article says that "Replacing the Lower Receiver of a standard AR-15 with one that has a fixed (10 round) magazine (see below for instructions) will render the firearm legal..." Does this refer to Californial legal? Or is this required in all states?

This is a requirement by California only. --D.E. Watters 20:43, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Correct, CA only, since there is no longer a federal assault weapons law. other states may have their own laws, but CA's is the most stringent. CynicalMe 00:43, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 50 BMG?

I'm curious about the inclusion of 50 BMG on our cartridge list. I've seen a 50 BMG barreled action rigged up to AR-15 furniture, but it's not a Stoner (gas-impingement autoloading) action (or even a semi-automatic). Is that what this refers to? IMHO, we should limit this list to calibers which use the AR-15 action; IIRC the pistol calibers are blowback actions which I suppose are okay too. Otherwise we could always include the top-break 37mm chambering. Boris B 00:04, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

There are both semi-auto and bolt-action AR-15 uppers available. CynicalMe 00:44, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rare calibers?

Any feelings about what calibers should be listed? I can think of a ton, but some use actions other than gas-impingement, some are for obsure (and probably ephemeral) cartridges, and some are from semi-custom manufacturers. E.g.:

Tromix AR's are available in the following calibers: 17 Mach IV, 17 Remington, 20 Tactical, 204 - Ruger, 223 Remington, 6mm PPC, 30 Carbine, 338/39, 440 CorBon Mag, 458 SOCOM, 475 Tremor, 50 Action Express. Discontinued calibers: 44 Rem Mag and 44 Auto Mag.

Currently chambered AR-15 /M-16 uppers from SSK are: 17 Remington, 221 Fireball, 222 Remington Magnum, 6/223, 6 MM WHISPER®, 6.5 MM WHISPER®, 7MM Whisper®, 458 SOCOM, 20 TACTICAL 222 Remington, 223 Remington, 6 MM PPC (JDJ), 6.5 MM PPC (JDJ), 7 MM TCU, 300 WHISPERR® .

AR-Uppers Styled by Teppo Jutsu: .458 SOCOM, 500 Phantom, .338 Spectre Cartridge Boris B 00:18, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External links section

I put a link in the exteranl links section to my ar-15 website - ar-15forums.com, it has been removed. However links to other commercial websites remain, why? My ar-15 website does not sell anything, except for google ads, other sites such as www.ar15.com are very commercial with ads and banners all over them. If my link was removed, I ask that the link to www.ar15.com, which is a commercial site also be removed. --21kev 17:20, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Much like your AK-47 link, this appears to be a pure attempt to get people to go on your board. I'd say this is against the rules, but I'm too lazy right now to track down the right one.--Asams10 21:06, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

This site is dedicated to the AR-15, notice the name - ar-15forums.com - its a discission board about the ar-15 rifle among other things. I can not help it if ar15.com has what, 10 years of traffic on my site? --21kev 21:54, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Missing word?

In the section titled "Legal Status in the United States", the article says "The 2000 Assault Weapons in the state of California sparked a renewed interest in the AR-15 rifle." Was this supposed to say "The 2000 Assault Weapons Ban"? 24.6.66.193 00:45, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Magazine Picture

That magazine picture does not belong in the Operating mechanism section. I made a separate section called Magazines in this article but it was removed. I don't think that is a good solution. What do you guys think? Igor at work 00:19, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] More Info on AR-15 Clones

Since the current California ban on AR-15 by make and manufacturer gunsmiths found ways around it by making "Clones" of the original AR-15. To get around the law they change the name of the gun to something like FAR-15 (Fulton Arms). The gun is made to the same specs as original ar-15 and the only thing different is the engraving on the side. These rifles are getting really popular in California. I have some really good reference photos of these and I think a section discussing these "clones" would be valuable. Before creating it, I wanted to see what is the general opinion as to the value of such info. Igor at work 16:29, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Interesting animation

Bushmaster Firearms have recently redone their website and added this great interactive AR-15 animation. If you haven't seen it already, have a look. Hayden120 02:27, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] AR-15 used in recent shooting in Wisconsin

Would it be relevant to mention here in the article the recent shooting in WI, where the perpetrator used his police service AR-15 rifle? Or have those rifles been used in lots of shooting sprees over the years, so that a mention isn't warranted in single events? --Wernher 10:57, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

See WP:GUNS#Criminal use. Unless some notable effect comes out of this shooting it shouldn't be included.--LWF 13:07, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

To answer your other question an AR-15 type weapon are quite popular making them for use in alot of crimes ForeverDEAD 23:18, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

the use of the weapon would be notable in the article about the shooting, but it dind't significantly change the image of the AR-15, so per the guideline, I would say that it isn't notable in this article --Boris Barowski 12:27, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

According to the FBI's yearly Uniform Crime Report, rifles and shotguns are rarely used in crimes. Small caliber, cheap, easily-concealable, poorly made handguns like Bryco and Jennings seem to be the guns that pop up most frequently in violent crime. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.121.94.110 (talk) 16:10, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spec is wrong

Under the specs of the AR15 firearm, it states the rate of fire is 800 RPM (rounds per minute).

Cartridge .223 Remington, 5.56 NATO Action Direct impingement / Rotating bolt Rate of fire 800 rounds/min Muzzle velocity 975 m/s (3,200 ft/s) Effective range 550 m (600 yd) Feed system Various STANAG Magazines. Sights Adjustable front and rear iron sights

This information is incorrect for AR15 firearms. AR-15's are semi automatic firearms (not full auto machineguns) meaning 1 round fired for each pull of the trigger. This should be edited and changed to remove that information altogether if it's going to be incorrect. Any reference to full auto weapon rate of fire should be used with the M16 series of firearms because they are different.

It could probably be argued about a technique called "bump firing" of a semi auto which means that the grip of the firearm is modified so that the recoil helps facilitate pulling the trigger faster, but is dangerous to use in this manner and not recommended by any AR15 manufacturer and the likelihood that anyone could bump fire 800 rounds per minute is not even remotely possible.

Thanks for your consideration, John A3 (talk) 00:50, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

The original AR-15 prototype was the predecessor to the M16 and was fully-automatic. The introduction even states, "The original ArmaLite/Colt AR-15 was a selective-fire prototype submitted for consideration as a military infantry rifle, which was later adopted as the M16, and is distinguished from later civilian-model AR-15 rifles marketed by Colt Firearms. Currently, AR-15 is a generic term for a civilian semi-automatic rifle similar to the military M16/M4-type weapons." Hayden120 (talk) 10:57, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Does that mean it can fire 800 rounds per minute? --Dachannien^Talk_Contrib 17:48, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, the original prototype could. The confusion is being caused by the fact that 'AR-15' now often refers to civilian semi-automatic-only rifles. AR-15s can still come in fully-automatic, but only for LE/Military. Both the M4 and M16 are AR-15 type rifle designs. Hayden120 (talk) 01:58, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

But if I go to the local gun shop and ask for an AR-15, I'm not going to get one that can fire 800 rounds per minute. The article is being misleading by casting that as the statistic for all AR-15s, and if it mentions that statistic at all, it should be done so in a way that makes it clear that it only applies to the original military version that became the M16. --Dachannien^Talk_Contrib 04:22, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Actually, you are going to get 800 rpm, you're just not going to be able to fire more than one shot per pull of the trigger. That you can't get one shot per pull of the trigger has absolutely no affect on the weapon's cyclic rate. This is determined by how fast the action moves and resets. Semi-automatic weapons still have a cyclic rate, despite being restricted mechanically to one shot per pull of a trigger. -- Thatguy96 (talk) 16:11, 2 April 2008 (UTC)