Talk:Apollo 1

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Contents 1 Early comments 2 Smoke Inhalation? 3 Controversy Section 4 Were they crazy? 5 Question 6 Conspiracy?! 7 Orgy in Command Couches - vandalism 8 Retroactive? 9 Before and After Template 10 Mission? 11 Investigation and Aftermaths: Reasons, flaws and missing investigations 12 Removed warnings section until it's worked on 13 New chronology of Apollo 1 accident: The dangers were well known before 14 Environment at capsule rupture 15 Joseph Francis Shea 16 Why keep the remains of the capsule? 17 This isn't verifiable 18 This also is confusing. 19 Assertion of scuffing - clarify 20 Wrong Translation

[edit] Early comments

I understand that the WikiProject:Space policy is to link to only manned missions, but in the case of the Apollo program, that policy contributes to the forgetting of Apollos 4, 5, and 6. --the Epopt

It does seem odd that a Gemini mission is listed as the "Previous" link here, rather than listing AS-202 or perhaps AS-203, which were actually Apollo system test launches. Tempshill 05:47, 27 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Does anyone have an official NASA picture of the two plaques that we can use? -- jon787

I couldn't find public domain photos of the plaques. I created drawings of them in Paint Shop Pro and posted the illustrations in the article. Error 404 06:33, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

On 23 Oct [1] an anon editor added a comment at the tail of this article linking to Silver fire, an article which is mostly (as the comment says) "another explanation" of the fire, but one with with an apparent agenda (since edited for NPOV by an editor who also questions its credibility on its Talk page). I don't know enough about the subject to judge whether these are conflicting or just different versions of the same phenomenon, so I don't know what to do with them, but I know the comment as it is (especially where it is) isn't proper. Any insights? (The same anon editor also made a drive-by out-of-context link to Silver fire on Ethylene glycol) Tverbeek 21:31, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The article states that the crew died in about 15 seconds. Later, the NASA report says that the crew died from smoke inhalation rather than burns. I am wondering how it is possible for 3 men to die from smoke inhalation in 15 seconds.

[edit] Smoke Inhalation?

Not that I think there is a malicious reason to do so, but for the sake of a grieving nation, and perhaps for the families peace-of-mind, the Board may have elected to say that the men died quickly of relatively painless smoke inhalation, rather than suffering through melting and excruciating agony while burning to death.

It's a kind lie.

Agreed. It is likely that the astronauts survived only a few seconds after the start of the fire; this is not long enough to die of smoke inhalation. However, a single breath of superheated gas might do it, but the cause here is massive thermal injury, not the effects of inhaled toxins in the smoke. Preacherdoc 20:29, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

It's possible that smoke inhalation could have rendered the men inside the cabin unconscious before they could save themselves, and the autopsy reports indicate that not enough burn damage had been done to any of the astronauts to result in immediate death (though one suffered 50% full thickness skin burns which in the 60s would have almost certainly resulted in death after several days in hospital). I don't have my source handy just now but I would imagine there should be an autopsy report on the NASA site somewhere or at least a summery. If I remember the source correctly one astronaut's suit (Chaffee?) was only 20-30% destroyed and he had very minor burn injuries. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by PhennPhawcks (talk • contribs) 02:20, 21 January 2007 (UTC).

According to the Apollo 1 audio transmission, transcription and timecoding provided by Spacecraft Films, there were indications of crew movement in the cabin at 6:30:38:21, followed at 6:30:54:02 by a voltage transient (surge in AC Bus 2 voltage). The first stage of the fire broke out along the left side cabin wall at 6:30:56:29 with the spacecraft atmospheric pressure measuring 16.4 PSI. Chaffee's first word of "Hey. . ." came at 6:31:04:19 as the atmospheric pressure rose slightly to 16.5 PSI when White reported at 6:31:07:10, "Fire! We've got a fire in the cockpit. . ." The atmospheric pressure rose to 17.0 PSI as the second stage of the fire moved across the cabin. In the time it took Chaffee to report "We have a bad fire. . .We're burning up. . ." from 6:31:17:02 to 6:31:21:01 (four seconds), the cabin pressure jumped from 20.0 PSI to 36.0 PSI -- at which point the spacecraft structure burst as the fire consumed all the oxygen inside the cabin, as all transmission from within the cockpit ended at 6:31:22:20. Barely five seconds later at 6:31:26:05, the third stage of the fire resulted in heavy smoke as all the oxygen was depleted inside the cabin, effectively rendering the crew unconscious. Finally, at 6:31:31:11 -- just 27 seconds from Chaffee's first warning to the end of audio transmission, the Command Module atmosphere was considered lethal to the crew. Hope this clarifies any further questions on the matterWSpaceport 19:58, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Controversy Section

The controversy section seems devoted to a very tenuous conspiracy theory that is lacking any evidentiary support. Usenet claims made by anonymous sources do not seem to meet Wikipedia standards for inclusion. I propose removing this section or beefing it up with something more tangible. --Jim Lipsey 16:43, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Were they crazy?

• The atmosphere would not be pressurized to two lb/in² (14 kPa) above atmospheric pressure

2 psi over sea level atmospheric pressure (1.14 atm)? Pure oxygen? What's wrong with them? I mean the cabin pressure of a typical commercial airlinear is about 0.75 atm of normal air (20% oxygen; 0.15 atm O₂; FAA requirement; air pressure at 8,000 ft). Why did they use such ridiculous high pressure of pure oxygen during a simulation?

If they wanted to simulate a 0.14 atm positive pressure in space, they might had pumped 0.94 atm extra nitrogen to the cabin (total pressure: 0.94 atm N₂ + 0.2 atm O₂ = 1.2 atm). It would be breathable and safe. Why couldn't they do that on the ground? I mean since you were not in space, you could afford to attach some additional gas tanks and pumps.

What was the actual cabin pressure when they were in space? It it was 0.14 atm pure oxygen, the pressure would have been too low (only enough oxygen) but the risk of a fire was nearly zero. You could set the pressure a little higher (lowest pressure a man could handle) and still use pure oxygen. The risk of a fire increased with added oxygen pressure. But letting them breath pure oxygen saved some weight. If anything went wrong (such as the Apollo 13 oxygen tank explosion), the remaining pure oxygen in cabin could let them survive longer. I guess it was a good choice to use pure oxygen in space. -- Toytoy 13:33, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)

Can anyone confirm the figures above? I can't find good documentation of the internal cabin pressure of the capsule in space. 14kPa above absolute vacuum (0.14 atm) of pure oxygen would provide a perfectly breathable partial pressure of oxygen for the astronauts. Is that, then the actual pressure that should have been in the capsule? And did they pressure test the capsule to 1.14atm?

In space, using pure oxygen at very low pressure seems justifiable. However, I agree that pressure testing the CSM with hyperbaric oxygen was a disaster waiting to happen; like looking for a gas leak with burning matches.Preacherdoc 20:38, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Back to the original question, it would seem to be a case of NASA cutting corners on saftey in order to save time and money. They had two tests they needed to conduct - a cabin leak check, which required the high pressure, and a practice countdown, which is why the crew was inside, and there was a pure oxygen environment. --GW_Simulations_{|User Page | Talk | Contribs | Chess | E-mail} 21:06, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Those numbers sound right, based on Collins. The suit pressure was around 3.7psi (less than a modern STS suit, which is about .3atm {0.338bar)). And it was less cutting corners than a limitation on the Saturn booster. The Soviets used a safer NO₂ system because their lifters could throw more. I don't recall the reason for the high pressure in the plugs out test situation, but recall, NASA'd conducted pressure tests at above 1atm in pure O₂ routinely before without any mishaps. This time, the dice came up snakeyes. And if it was up to me, it would be a national holiday. Trekphiler 14:10, 20 December 2006 & 09:49, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Nitrogen in the cabin would have reduced the risk of fire, but would not have been risk free. Nitrogen under pressure disolves in human blood, when the pressure is released it comes out of solution and forms bubbles, just like carbon dioxide in fizzy drinks, causing the bends. This means the astronauts would have had to undergo a decompression in order to mitigate the risks of the bends before leaving the spacecraft, and if an emergency egress was necessary the crew would be in very real danger of suffering a decompression injury. Additionally as nitrogen and oxygen have different atomic masses, it would be possible for one gas to leak and the other to be contained, thus introducing a possibility of error into leak tests. I don't know for certain if the latter was ever used as justification for pure oxygen but I do know engineers tend to like to make tests as close to the real thing as humanly possible when validating machinery, especially machinery that will be responsible for keeping people alive in a hostile environment. --G. McVey 02:29, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

The possibility that astronauts could develop bends shall not be a problem. Just let them breathe deep diver's mix. The less than 2 atm pressure also was not so high to cause bends, I guess. -- Toytoy 03:07, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Question

In the article it says the pressure of the capsule was 100 kPa. That's less than 1 atm, since 1 atm is 101 kPa. And yet it says, the cabin was pressurized above 1 atm. Am I missing something? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.224.117.27 (talk) 07:39, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Conspiracy?!

That's preposterous. Why would NASA jeopardize President Kennedy's dream to exact a petty vendetta? If they were really out to get him, they would have done the deed at Gemini 3, not Apollo 1.

(Then again, some people are immune to simple logic.) --Kitch 10:35, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

K.I.S.S. keep it simple.... stupid! If the govt or nasa wanted Grissom dead his breaks would have failed or he would have had a "heart attack". Didn't you conspiracy guys watch X Files? Why would they set him on fire in the most public way possible? WayeMason 11:34, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Because there are a lot of stupid goobers out there in the world who genuinely believe that nothing bad ever happens to anyone unless it's enemy action. RGTraynor 21:06, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Among the astronauts, Grissom was the most critical of the problem-plagued Apollo program, and the main Apollo contractor, North American Aviation. Shortly before his death, Grissom had taken a large lemon and hung it around the space capsule as the press looked on.

FWIW, this is a common mistake made in countless histories -- Grissom hung the lemon on a balky Apollo simulator, not the actual spacecraft. And the press would likely have not been present at the time. StanislavJ 23:52, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

He had suggested publicly that the project could never be accomplished on time. The Grissom family had reason to doubt the official NASA ruling from the beginning. Even before Apollo I, Grissom had received death threats which his family believed emanated from within the space program. The threats were serious enough that he was put under Secret Service protection and had been moved from his home to a secure safe house. According to his wife, Grissom had warned her that "if there is ever a serious accident in the space program, it's likely to be me." Don't put down the facts unless you have solid evidence to back it up - the families want an independent investigation to learn of the true cause of the fire and the deaths of their love ones. What if it was your father or husband? Wouldn't you want to know the truth - I believe you would. I know the Grissom family and they are honest people and would not make anything up just for PR or any other reason. I support the family and believe that there is more to the fire than reported. KMA January 27, 2006 (39th Anniversity of Apollo One)

If you can provide credible sources for any of the "facts' thats super! Footnotes. Etc. A bunch of conspiracists verifying one and others theories is hardly credible. Its not that I and we want to "put down the facts", rather, there are no facts presented, but for the link to a defunct website, that may or may not have existed. I am all for truth and fairness in reporting the facts, but a) you need footnotes and b) wikipedia is not a platform for publishing theories, its for reporting on published theories. You need to provide solid evidence of your theories, I don't have to provide solid evidence contradicting your theories. WayeMason 02:02, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Orgy in Command Couches - vandalism

Is the sex orgy really verifiable information? Perhaps a user more familiar with editing Wikipedia entries (not vandalizing them) could fix this. It's a bit disgraceful. (Just needed to point this out ASAP.) - 209.17.131.79 19:14, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Retroactive?

The article says "Apollo One is the name given retroactively to the Apollo/Saturn 204 ..." But in the photo, the astronauts are wearing "Apollo 1" patches, aren't they? The mission would have been called "Apollo 1" if it flew, wouldn't it? I know that after the fire, at first they wanted to just call it 204 (the designation of the capsule), and then they were persuaded to keep calling it "Apollo 1". But why call it "retroactive", if patches, etc made before the fire were "Apollo 1"? Bubba73 (talk), 05:32, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Basically, the astronauts called it Apollo 1, and had patches made unofficially to reflect this. A camaign after their death had it offically renamed Apollo 1 - had it flown, it probably would have been AS-204 on all official documents. Shimgray | talk | 14:01, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

What avout in the press and history books? My guess (and I may be wrong), is that everyone would have called it Apollo 1. Very few people call Friendship 7 by its official name of Mercury/Atlas 6. No one calls Apollo 11 the official " Apollo/Saturn 506 ". Bubba73 (talk), 14:43, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

This is true, but we don't know this - it was going to be called Apollo-Saturn 204 (or maybe Saturn-Apollo 204, in some parts of NASA... the booster people had different opinions). It's quite possible it would have ended up being called "Apollo 4", or somesuch - remember that the first Gemini mission was GT-3, Gemini 3. And the limited public attention to early Shuttle missions always used the arcane "STS-41-D" numbering system, rather than simply "STS-10", but that's another story entirely... I really do need to write that article on NASA mission numbering. Shimgray | talk | 17:46, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Before the fire, it was called "Apollo 1" in a few NASA documents and NASA approved the name Apollo 1. From the way I understand it, NASA didn't want to call it "Apollo 1" after the fire, they wanted to call it 204, or a version of that. 204 is basically the serial number of the command module. Then "Apollo 1" would either go unused or would be the name of a manned or unmanned flight. When See and Bassett were scheduled for Gemini 9, and they were killed, it was still generally called "Gemini 9", except I think it is listed as 9A in some sources. But this situation was different - they were killed in the spacecraft and the spacecraft was destroyed. NASA wanted to only call it 204, but people wanted to retain the "Apollo 1" name.This is mainly a semantic thing, I think, because the idea of calling it "Apollo 1" came up before the fire, not after (retroactively). (So much discussion over hust one word!) Bubba73 (talk), 19:40, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

[dropping back some indents]

"Before the fire, it was called "Apollo 1" in a few NASA documents and NASA approved the name Apollo 1". This is the problem - NASA didn't approve the name Apollo 1, as I understand it, they merely tolerated the astronauts calling it that. Then, afterwards, Betty Grissom (and others) campaigned for NASA to change the official name; NASA, always willing to make cosmetic changes for PR, agreed, and it was termed Apollo 1 from then on.

By the way, -204 meant mission #04 on a Saturn IB booster, coded as 2 - the Saturn V flights were coded 5, so things like AS-506. It wasn't tied to the capsule, which in this case was CM-012. Shimgray | talk | 20:23, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

OK, I stand corrected on the 204. I thought that I read NASA documents approving "Apollo 1" on the patch. My concern was that "retroactive" sounds like someone thought of that name after the fire, and that wasn't the case. But NASA did officaally name it that afterwards, so I will go along with "retroactive". I probably have nothing more to say on the subject. Thanks for the good discussion. (I added a couple of photos to the article my wife took when we were there a few weeks ago.) Bubba73 (talk), 20:57, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Actually the 204 reference should probably be taken out. As Collins points out, the 204 booster was used later. And since the bird didn't fly, strictly speaking, she shouldn't be called "Apollo" anything: it should be the 012 spacecraft fire, or the Pad 39A (oops) Pad 37B fire, or the plugs out test fire. Don't get the idea I don't think they're heroes; if it was up to me, it would be a national holiday. I just don't think a bird that never gets off the ground should be treated like ones that fly. And I think all three of them, test pilots all, would get that. Trekphiler 14:19, 20 December 2006 & 09:46, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Before and After Template

I changed the before and after template on the bottom to better reflect the course of the Apollo program. I believe that the other box looked cluttered and harder to understand. Chuck 22:22, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mission?

Does anyone know what would have been done if the mission had gone off as scheduled? I assume it would have been similar to Apollo 7, but I could be wrong. A line or two about the mission profile would be nice. --Idols of Mud 15:24, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Investigation and Aftermaths: Reasons, flaws and missing investigations

One could take this text as a base for a page "Apollo 1 Investigation" as follows:

First reason for the deads in Apollo 1 was that there had never been done a test of the Apollo 1 capsule without astronauts. The responsibles said there was "no time" for that. A neutral investigation by police or FBI had not been done because Gilruth blocked all contacts after the accident.

On 12. March 1967 Washington Post reported that before the Apollo 1 fire 20.000 flaws were reported in Apollo 1 project. So the atmosphere for the apollo 1 investigation by the investigation committee was not a "polite" one when the investigation started. A sub committee under the chair of Republican Olin Teague came to Cape Canaveral for hearings. During the hearings representatives of NASA and North American Aviation (NAA) both did not want to be guilty for the fire accident and they argued one against the other. On 21. April 1967 Ex NAA Savety inspector Thomas Ronald Baron presented his 500 page report against NAA to chairman Teague and gave testimony against NAA. As a whole in all hearings about 50% of the flaws reported by Baron were confirmed.

One week after his hearing Baron was deadly hit. Officially it was a railway accident when a train smashed his car. Also his wife and stepdaughter - officially - died "in this railway accident" in the car. The bodies were buried immediately without autopsy, against any Florida law. The short Baron report (57 pages) about the flaws of NAA survived, the big report of 500 pages did not. If Baron and his family died by a murder of CIA or any other or if it really was a railway accident can be speculated. An exhumation and investigation of the bones of Baron and his family could be useful to find the truth but has not been done until now. THis is NOT a conspiracy theory but these are facts and missing facts until now.

Scott Grissom, son of Virgil Grissom, added another aspect. He meant after an inspection of the capsule (in 1999) that a little metal peace in the main switch had provoked a short-circuit, and this short-circuit had provoked the fire in the oxygen atmosphere. But - also when the metal peace is very strange and does not belong to the switch - there were many possibilities for short-circuits in the Apollo 1 capsule and there was smoke in the capsule already before the fire broke out in the capsule. So the little metal peace at the switch does not seem to be essential for the whole fire. The metal peace is only "very strange".

Last investigations say the fire in Apollo 1 could have been provoked in the same manner as the fire in an MD-11 of Swissair wich crashed at Halifax in 1998. So for the fire on Apollo 1 the casing and the electric cables would be one of the main causes - aside the oxygen atmosphere. For the three dead astronauts the main cause is the door which could not be opened and missing First Aid because all believed they already were dead but they did not suddenly. To investigate the dead of the Baron family with an exhumation of the bones would be useful and could reduce speculations. This is NO conspiracy theory, but these are facts and missing proofs.

Michael Palomino 1. September 2006

This is preposterous garbage. "No conspiracy theory"? Mulder ought to be on this one. It's up there with the Pearl Harbor Conspiracy. And I suppose Elvis is still alive & working impersonating himself? Trekphiler 14:28, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removed warnings section until it's worked on

Astronaut Virgil Grissom always warned that Apollo was technically not as developed as Gemini before. He was not loved for his critical voice because he said in public Apollo was "a basket full of screws". But Grissom was not alone: One of the most important warners that the Apollo project was full of mistakes and risks was also Thomas Ronald Baron, quality control inspector from North American Aviation (NAA). He made a 55 page report, but NAA management refused to follow him. When Baron gave informations about heavy mistakes at ramp 34 to the press he was fired from North American Aviation on 5. January 1967.

Before Apollo 1 there were also about four other accidents with a pure oxygen atmosphere with injured persons and even dead victims at other AFBs and test sites. So all in all the accident of Apollo 1 with the oxygen experiment in the technically not high standarded capsule could be foreseen. But NASA management did not act. In the meantime Baron wrote at home a 500 page compendium about mistakes and risks in the Apollo program. And Grissom (commander of Apollo 1) did not quit what would have been natural in this situation - for any reason we don't know.

The above makes makes unsourced claims, original research, and comes close to a conspiracy theory approach -- apart from being poorly written. I thought it was best to move it here for work and discussion. -- ArglebargleIV 04:03, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Look, when any information which is not in the school book is a conspiracy theory you can really dig your grave before you are born. Michael Palomino, 6th October 2006

Just for fun, lets compare this badly written section above with a well written and FOOTNOTED conspiracy theory reportage below, from the Area 51 article:

Many of the theories concern underground facilities at Groom or at nearby Papoose Lake, and include claims of a transcontinental underground railroad system, a disappearing airstrip (nicknamed the "Cheshire Airstrip", after Lewis Carroll's Cheshire cat) which briefly appears when water is sprayed onto its camouflaged asphalt ^[1], and engineering based on alien technology. In 1989, Bob Lazar claimed that he had worked at a facility at Papoose Lake (which he called S-4) on such a U.S. Government flying saucer. One major theory is that Area 51 is a place which simulates the environment of the moon. In 2000-2001, Fox Television broadcast a show about Apollo moon landing hoax accusations, in which it was suggested that the whole moon landing in 1969 was a hoax and was filmed in parts of Area 51. Others, however, claim that during the mid 1990s, the most secret work previously done at Groom was quietly moved to other facilities, including Dugway Proving Ground in Utah, and that the continued secrecy around Groom is largely a successful attempt at misdirection^[2].

See! Footnotes! Sentences that actually make sense and that are grammatically correct! It can be done! WayeMason 00:47, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Well-written & footnoted preposterous garbage is still preposterous garbage. Trekphiler 14:31, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

...there were already worries about the capsule, built with all kinds and sundry exotic and often flammable substances packed in a woefully untested container with miles of electrically live wire into which they pumped pure oxygen, the incident tragically and rather starkly proved it to be a death trap and there's that helpful old saying, don't attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence. The only conspiracy here would likely be the wonted garden variety, aftermath scramble, folks with careers to nurture and families to feed shirking responsibility away from their personal selves whilst simultaneously trying to understand what went wrong so they could fix things, if they still had jobs. Gwen Gale 12:41, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New chronology of Apollo 1 accident: The dangers were well known before

See the investigation and see what criminal military NASA has committed, and there are really new questions for a new investigation:

• The fire of Apollo 1 - 3 murdered astronauts in a "bucket full of screws"

This is a chronology with all the facts, and facts cannot conspire. Can you see this, Wikipedia censorship board of school book detectives?

Am I getting repetitive calling it preposterous garbage yet? Jamie Madrox 14:37, 20 December 2006 (UTC) (BTW, can somebody rein in Lee Harvey Nutcase, here?)

It's a lot of documented stuff laced with skeins of unsupported, flailing interpretation. I mean, commenting on the look in FB's eyes? A "fact" which "cannot conspire"? Gwen Gale 12:49, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Environment at capsule rupture

Is information available about the capsule environment such as PSI, partial pressure of various gasses, temperature, etc at time of cabin rupture? Accident reports say telemetry was transmitted until 2 seconds after the rupture event, it also says that the lights were on in the capsule when they finally got the hatch off, suggesting that any local recorders that might have been installed in the space craft could also still be running as there was still electrical power. However, I've never seen any specific figures, only a few comments along the lines of the pressure was "hundreds of times greater" than normal. --G. McVey 02:41, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

According to the Apollo 1 audio transmission, transcription and timecoding provided by Spacecraft Films, there were indications of crew movement in the cabin at 6:30:38:21, followed at 6:30:54:02 by a voltage transient (surge in AC Bus 2 voltage). The first stage of the fire broke out along the left side cabin wall at 6:30:56:29 with the spacecraft atmospheric pressure measuring 16.4 PSI. Chaffee's first word of "Hey. . ." came at 6:31:04:19 as the atmospheric pressure rose slightly to 16.5 PSI when White reported at 6:31:07:10, "Fire! We've got a fire in the cockpit. . ." The atmospheric pressure rose to 17.0 PSI as the second stage of the fire moved across the cabin. In the time it took Chaffee to report "We have a bad fire. . .We're burning up. . ." from 6:31:17:02 to 6:31:21:01 (four seconds), the cabin pressure jumped from 20.0 PSI to 36.0 PSI -- at which point the spacecraft structure burst as the fire consumed all the oxygen inside the cabin, as all transmission from within the cockpit ended at 6:31:22:20. Barely five seconds later at 6:31:26:05, the third stage of the fire resulted in heavy smoke as all the oxygen was depleted inside the cabin, effectively rendering the crew unconscious. Finally, at 6:31:31:11 -- just 27 seconds from Chaffee's first warning to the end of audio transmission, the Command Module atmosphere was considered lethal to the crew. Hope this clarifies any further questions on the matter. WSpaceport 20:28, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Joseph Francis Shea

It seems odd that this article does not mention Joe Shea at all (Joseph Francis Shea on wikipedia). Lesonyrra 21:52, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Dunno if it's odd, but I've added Joseph Francis Shea to the see also section. Gwen Gale 18:26, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why keep the remains of the capsule?

Anyone know the rationale for keeping the capsule once the investigation was complete? Why not just destroy it appropriately? Is this part of some misguided notion that it is "hallowed" ground? --ukexpat 15:14, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

"misguided"? I rather suspect the spacefaring equivalent of burial at sea is impractical. Ferritecore 01:49, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Obviously, UKexpat's European bias is showing. Those who lived through the events of January 27, 1967 would certainly consider it "hallowed ground" as UKexpat calls it. My personal opinion is that AS-204 (Apollo 1) should be put on permanent public display, instead of sweeping it under the carpet so to speak (buried in a deactivated Minuteman silo like Challenger and Columbia were unceremonously done). It should not only serve as an appropriate memorial to the crew, but as a vigilant reminder for general public to remember, as well as an educational tool for the men and women that comprise the contractor teams and the space agency itself.WSpaceport 20:37, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

She should be at the Smithsonian. This is perhaps the only historic aviation/space accident to leave a vehicle intact. If historic aircraft like X-1 & Enola Gay deserve to be on display, so does Apollo 012. Call it evidence of the price of pioneering, & an inspiration to future generations. It's been almost forty years since "one small step" & we're hearing the same stupid garbage about "solving our problems here, first" as in 1969. If we'd only kept on, we wouldn't have some of them. Maybe an exhibit would persuade some people. Trekphiler 21:13, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

I can understand why they hang onto it (there may be a reason to have a look at it for research now and then) but the hitch is, other than folks with living, breathing loved ones having died in that deathtrap, its inner surfaces are coated with the condensed residue of combusted human flesh. Gwen Gale 17:43, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This isn't verifiable

Per the article: "the transmission ended abruptly with a scream of pain at 6:31:21."

That "scream" could have been in fear, anger, exertion, or pain, but we don't know for sure. I think it's more appropriate to say simply that "the transmission ended abruptly with a cry at 6:31:21." Otherwise, it smells of editorialization. The relevant editors should consider this. 68Kustom (talk) 07:13, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] This also is confusing.

"It took five minutes to open the hatch, a layered array of three hatches with many ratchets." I know how the Block I hatch worked, and this description confused even me. The layperson isn't going to get it.

How about this: "The hatch, which consisted of three layered components, needed several personnel using the proper tools to remove it. The process took five minutes, by which time the command module fire had gone out."

Feel free to C&P. 68Kustom (talk) 07:21, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Assertion of scuffing - clarify

I undid this edit because the assertion that this belief "still has currency" is 30 years old and has always been strongly contested (all following the same source), hence, the edit was unsupported by a source. Gwen Gale (talk) 01:03, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

The single line of "The ignition source for the fire was never determined." feels pointless and overly dramatic. I'll just go and edit it out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Egolub (talk • contribs) 02:20, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

It was the finding of the review board, I have added a NASA source. Gwen Gale (talk) 02:28, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

The same review board also had comments such as "There were also several places where pitting of exposed conductors and adjacent structure indicate that an electric arc had occurred." and listed "Vulnerable wiring carrying spacecraft power." as a condition that led to the disaster. http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/Apollo204/invest.html I still feel that the sentence as it is placed is needlessly dramatic and would be better rephrased. Egolub (talk) 02:46, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but the ignition source was never determined. Looking into the McCarthy hypothesis further, I have put a lengthy description of it into a footnote with two sources (NASA and a 1967 Time magazine article): McCarthy was a vice president of North American Aviation, one of the contractors who built the module. His notion was never taken seriously and he almost immediately retracted it. Gwen Gale (talk) 02:47, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wrong Translation

"Ad astra per aspera" does not mean, "a rough road leads to the stars." 208.42.226.37 (talk) 21:47, 9 June 2008 (UTC)