Talk:Antonio Villaraigosa

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Contents 1 Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs 2 Divorce 3 Distortion from supporters 4 Antonio Villar 5 Distinguish 6 Animal Services "Controversy"?? 7 SCF 8 Commentary and analysis 9 Esperanza High School 10 Last paragraph under "reputation" removed 11 Ethics 12 NPOV and other problems

[edit] Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs

The article needs updating. Those aren't the only "affairs" he has been up to. 72.194.119.243 00:06, 6 July 2007 (UTC)John D.

[edit] Divorce

I propose having a seperate article within his biography about his affair with Mirthala Salinas.

Please sign your additions to the talk page (by signing in and adding four "~" signs after your text) so that it is clear who has made what argument.

I don't think that there is a need for a separate article or section for the Salinas controversy, but I do think that it would be good for the article if a "Controversies" section was added or a separate article on controversies concerning Villaraigosa was created, where such issues could be detailed without them grabbing too much space in the original article (this has certainly been done with many other controversial public figures). Sarnalios 20:10, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Sarnalios. A controversies section with his affair & La Raza and Mecha connections would clean up that info from the other sections. I would do it myself but I can't seem to figure out how. :O Ryratt 01:59, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

The "reputation" section could be re-worked, since it is mostly a criticism section already. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 03:50, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

While the issue of Villaraigosa's affair(s) is a hot topic right now, I don't think that it should be given it's current weight as the only subheading to the Biography section. In my opinion it would be more appropriate to have a short mention of the filing for divorce in the Biography section and then the rest of the information on the affair(s) as part of a "Criticism" or "Controversy" heading, including the criticism currently at the end of the Reputation section. Sarnalios 23:24, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Distortion from supporters

Despite repeated corrections there are those who would have you believe Mr. Villaraigosa is a lawyer or attorney. Since he has not been awarded a degree from an accreditted law school, passed any state bar, nor gained admittance to the ABA, he is not a licensed attorney nor can he act as one. Revisions continue to hide truths about his background and allegiances.

(1) One need not receive a degree from an accredited law school to be admitted to practice law in CA; (2) the ABA is a voluntary organization that has ZERO responsibility for licensing or disciplining attorneys; (3) the licensing body for attorneys in CA is the CALIFORNIA STATE BAR. Gotta love the POST FIRST, CHECK LATER mentality.

I have no objection to removing the lawyer assertion. Can we provide a source that says he is closely associated with socialist causes? Or that he is a current supporter of MeCHA? Thansk, -Willmcw 23:54, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC)

No one knows whether Villaraigosa still supports MEChA, because no one in the news media will ask him about it. One of the links provided is to a KNX radio reporter asking him about the MEChA involvement. However, that took place in 2001. He was not asked about MEChA during any of this year's debates. Feel free to label the links, but removing them would be providing a distorted picture of Villaraigosa. As for the paragraph added above the links section, that's a clear statement of fact, not opinion. It also links to several other WP pages, so I don't think there should be a problem with that. I also added a link to Villaraigosa's campaign site for balance.

This is an encyclopedia, not a newspaper or an election site. Feel free to add this information next week. But anonymous editors posting hit material a week before a nasty election is not NPOV. -Willmcw 06:14, May 12, 2005 (UTC)

I'm posting factual material. The entry in its current form is misleading: it does not give the full picture. And, quoting from the NPOV: "The policy is easily misunderstood. It doesn't assume that it's possible to write an article from a single, unbiased, objective point of view. The policy says that we should fairly represent all sides of a dispute, and not make an article state, imply, or insinuate that any one side is correct." Please let me know what you intend to do to round out this article so it reflects the complete picture. -LonewackoDotCom 11:15am pacific 5/12/05

It is the responsibility of every editor to make NPOV edits. You cannot add a bunch of (supposedly) factual but intentionally denigrating information and then expect other editors to provide the balance. Considering that this derogatory material is being added just days before an election that follows a negative campaign, it appears that the reasons for adding it is not to improve the encyclopedia, but rather to affect the election. If that's not the case, then waiting few days won't make a difference. Cheers, -Willmcw 22:16, May 12, 2005 (UTC)

If you look at the history of changes to this article you will see that user Willmcw has consistantly removed the same facts regarding this bio & replaced it with the same white-washing. Given that different editors have repeatedly edited back in the facts shows that the editor Willmcw is an idealogue that believes in the rule of a one person minority. This particular editor would like to note that w/in one day, actually, w/in hours Willmcw has changed the basic facts. Instead of trying to hava a Saloth Sar year 1 mentality what does Willmcw have to hide? Just leave the information but debate it!

If you have verifiable sources for (ungrammatical) assertions like, " was active in chicano gangs" or "through affirmative action quotas was admitted into UCLA where he spent most of his energies in an anti-US/anglo marxist movement called MeCHA" then we can include them. There's no reason to delete the name of his high school or his law school. If you want to add that the law school is unaccredited then I won't object. But since he's not a practicing lawyer his legal credentials are not a key issue, but we should include an NPOV treatment of whatever verifiable sources we have. Thanks, -Willmcw 23:50, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

what's ungrammatical? would appreciate the enlightenment - regardless any polishing would be welcome given that it's original intent was to dash off a few facts as in this case - re those facts where are the verifiable sources that he was thrown out of school for brawling at a football game? still overall it's a white wash was when the only portrayel to his tarnished past is that he came from an unstable background - struggling folk would be impressed that he overcame truancy, organized deliquency, radicalism, scholastic failure and achieved political/civic successes

I didn't write the part about his high school career. The L.A. Times ran a big bio on him back in May, it may have come from there. If you think that there is a mistake then point it out. Perhaps the same article has mention about his (supposed) involvement in MeCHA. Check it out. Cheers, -Willmcw 04:24, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

could i get some help here? what's ungrammatical? the wall street journal ran an article debunking much of his bio and proving his gang/radical past quoting his fbi file and lapd file - Villaraigosa ‘renuncia’ a Mecha

Mientras hablaba Villaraigosa en el interior del restaurante Mort’s Palisades Deli, Andrew Jones, ex alumno de la Universidad de California en Los Ángeles (UCLA), exigía con un cartel que Villaraigosa rechazara los principios “de reconquista” del Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlán, al que perteneció el concejal durante sus años universitarios.

“La mayoría de los jóvenes latinos que asistieron a universidades pertenecieron a MECHA”, dijo Villaraigosa. “No estoy de acuerdo con la mayoría de sus preceptos. Pero en la universidad, todos formábamos parte de esa organización. “Por supuesto que renuncio a su filosofía”, indicó.

“Estoy absolutamente anodadado”, respondió Jones. “Cruz Bustamante no lo quiso hacer, y se le persiguió por meses con eso”, agregó, refiriéndose a la campaña de destitución del 2003.

the below is an english translation of La Opinion reporter Jazmin Ortega's ending paragraph of her article in the May 12th edition of the Spanish language newspaper

"Villaraigosa ‘renounces’ MEChA

While Villaraigosa was speaking inside the restaurant, Mort's Palisades Deli, Andrew Jones, alumnus of the University of California in Los Angeles (UCLA), demanded with a poster that Villaraigosa reject the principles “of reconquista” of the Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlan [MEChA], that the councilman belonged to during his university years. “Most of the young Latinos who attended universities belonged to MEChA," Villaraigosa said. “I am not in agreement with most of its precepts. But in the university, we were all part of that organization. Of course I renounce its philosophy,” he said. "I am absolutely surprised,” responded Jones. “Cruz Bustamante did not want to do it, and he was attacked for months about it,” he added, referring to the recall campaign of 2003.

It's universally well known and documented he didn't finish high school, was in gangs and UCLA admits they admitted him without finishing high school. Also that, MeCHA, which he admits belonging too, is an anti-American, marxist organization.

What's wrong with showing this? Why do you delete all the above when all we deleted was one of his high school names. You shouldn't be ashamed of him. His is a remarkable achievement story, right?

"Universally well known and documented"? Good. How about a link to these sources that say he never graduated high school? How do you happen to have access to his FBI file? Thanks, -Willmcw 06:47, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

any chance re the grammar in the first para? - like i said i blasted off the grammer & am probably wrong - could you tell me where to polish it up? re the fbi although i have a ts/3 full scope clearance i was quoting the journal which quoted his files - you asked for it but here are some of our sources bruinalumni.com

The long run-on sentence is not in the current article anymore. Please do no post a long chunk of text. The link will suffice so that other others can verify it. What is the source for this material, bruinalumni.com? -Willmcw 08:56, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

I think Villaraigosa is lying when he says that he renounces MECha. I live in Los Angeles County and I have noticed that Villaraigosa is a staunch supporter of illegal immigrants. He doesn't seem to pay enough attention to any other group besides Hispanics. -Blau

Yes, apparently bruinalumni.com. [1] Please do not cut and paste material from other websites into Wikipedia. We need to make original contributions, or obtain a GFDL license from the copyright holder. Let's just add a link to the site. Cheers, -Willmcw 08:59, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

a run on! pathetic - agreed re the massive text pasting, just getting the source out in full to help - however his early bio is a complete cut & paste job by others it's plastered all over the net - look the point is that you don't need a clearance or need to confirm the bruin sources villaraigosa admits it - however for you now to ask for the source of the bruin article is absurd because i'm assuming you visited the site by now...there's a picture of him w/ mecha! what's the big deal so the guy was in a nut org. he has renounced them! why aren't you proud of that?

well some of us looked up run-ons (warriners) and found that it's more accurate name, "comma fault", are two complete sentences seperated by a comma instead of a conjunction, semi-colon or period - it was also noted that it's more of a stylistic problem than grammatical -

Your grammar, spelling, punctuation, and capitalization are beautiful. Forget I mentioned it. Cheers, -Willmcw 04:48, July 16, 2005 (UTC)

Here's a link to La Voc de Aztlan claiming pride in the fact that he did NOT repudiate MEChA. http://www.aztlan.net/alcalde_de_los_angeles.htm Read it completely and know the truth.

For the record, aztlan.net is not a reputable source.--Rockero 20:53, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Antonio Villar

How about including the fact that his birth name is not villaraigosa? --Jorobeq 00:26, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

That's a great idea. You'll see that we've done so already. Thanks, -Willmcw 23:16, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, I see that now. --Jorobeq 00:26, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies)#Names, the birth name should be in the lead section, so I've added it there, on the model of the Bill Clinton example in the MoS. This creates duplication with the pre-existing information in the "Biography" section. The duplication may be justified as helping to avert confusion, so I've left it in, but I don't feel strongly either way about whether the second reference should be deleted. JamesMLane t c 18:08, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Here's more on his name change: Man files lawsuit to take wife's name By GREG RISLING, Associated Press Writer]:

"Couples who want to hyphenate or combine their names also must endure the lengthy court procedures in California. One of the more notable examples was Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, who went to court to fuse his last name, Villar, with his wife's, Raigosa, when they married in 1987."

I'd like to add the info by date order, but it looks like this probably fits into the middle of the paragraph on People's College of Law. ^BlankVerse 07:53, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Distinguish

I've moved this new text from the page:

• During the immigration protests in March and April 2006, Mayor Villaraigosa would not distinguish between legal and illegal immigrants when discussing the issue publicly.

How do we know this? -Will Beback 19:57, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Animal Services "Controversy"??

I fail to see what's controversial about the Animal Services Controversy (also those titles should be sentence style--I'll fix that). It sounds like he more or less kept to his campaign pledge. Perhaps if there was someone who actually said there was something wrong with his actions... Rereading the section, I guess race was at issue, but was racism actually ever raised anywhere as a cause for concern? I think we should find a source. Theshibboleth 06:59, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] SCF

(moved from main article space)

In June 2006, the mayor's reputation took a hit when he stood by and allowed the eviction of the immigrant farmers at the South Central Farm. It is reported that, "At three a.m. on the morning of June 13, the Los Angeles County Sheriff's department arrived at the farm, fully surrounding it by four a.m. At five a.m., the sheriffs entered the farm, giving the occupants 15 minutes to evacuate. At that point, most of the occupants of the land left, with a few verbal skirmishes reported. According to news reports, 39 people were arrested or taken into custody. Actress Daryl Hannah was removed from the walnut tree in which she and another tree-sitter had been protesting the eviction. It was not immediately clear whether or not Hannah was arrested."

From Villaraigosa's press release:

As you know, this morning (6.13.06), Sheriff's deputies began evicting farmers and activists at the South Central Farm. Today's evictions are unfortunate and come at the end of a tumultuous turn of events that at times was not always discussed in public due to the nature of real estate negotiations and the discussions that various parties were having with the property owner. In light of today's events and the fact that it appears that the owner will not accept a proposal that meets his asking price of $16 million - I felt it was important to brief you today. Today's events are unfortunate, disheartening and unnecessary. After years of disagreement over this property we had all hoped for a better outcome. I'd like to be clear about what has transpired. The property owner asked for $16 million * and last week, after 10 months of negotiations and efforts by my staff and others from the Trust for Public Land and the Annenberg Foundation * a proposal for a full-price, $16 million purchase was made by the Annenberg Foundation to the property owner. The foundation expressed a clear, sincere interest and commitment by its trustees to acquire the property for $16 million dollars. This morning, in a conversation with the property owner I reiterated my confidence in and support for the Annenberg purchase. Even after meeting his asking price, Mr. Horowitz told me that he would not sell the property to the Trust for Public Lands and the Annenberg Foundation. Everyone involved who cares about this garden and who cares about the farmers who have built an oasis in a sea of industry and concrete has done everything possible to meet the property owner's demands. First it was about price, well*. we met his price. He set the bar very high and we met it. Now the bar has been moved. I understand a businessman's need to invest and make a profit. I also have a high respect for and will defend property rights. That is the spirit under which we all operated when trying to negotiate and resolve this issue. But I also believe that we are called upon by a sense of community and civic duty to do the just and right thing. I had hoped that the landowner would have heeded that call. For those who say that there is no plot of land for urban farming in South LA, you should know that the City will continue plans to relocate farmers to an alternate 7.8 acre site, which has the capacity to house 200 garden plots. Already, 30 farmers have been allowed to begin cultivating the land located at 111th St & Avalon. We want to make sure the farmers are properly relocated. In addition, there are about 100 more plots located around the City that we have identified for community gardens." End comments.

Who is saying the mayor's reputation is suffering? Maybe we should move the mayor's statement to wikisource? Does it hold press releases?--Rockero 03:13, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

i would not say the reputation is "suffering". Reputation can be good or bad.

03:54, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Exactly. To say that his reputation is suffering assumes the point of view that the eviction is "bad" thing. If somebody says his reputation is suffering (like a poll, perhaps, linking a drop in numbers to action at the farm?), then by all means it should be included. But his simple statement about the affair --and he will have many statements about many issues, which is why I suggest moving it to wikisource-- is not necessarily a statement on his reputation.--Rockero 05:28, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

It isn't clear what more the mayor could have done in this matter. Without a poll it's POV/NOR to suggest that public opinion has changed about him. In any case, the press release shouldn't be in the article If we don't think it will be available in the future, and think we'll want to consult it again, then Wikisource would be the place for it. I believe that press releases are automatically public domain (but you'd better check). -Will Beback 05:53, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I rephrased and moved the press release to wikisource, where we should begin putting all his press releases. Only thing is, I couldn't find the statement on the mayor's website, and all I could find online were quotes from the statement in the press, not the whole thing. Can anyone identify the original source of the statement?--Rockero 16:40, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Commentary and analysis

Let's leave the analysis and commentary for professional pundits, please. This article contains too few sources for the material contained in it. We'll need to pare it down if we caan't substantiate this material. -Will Beback 23:17, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

The AP is reporting that he has two children "from previous relationships" before he met his wife. I think that should be in his biography. It speaks to his character.

Uh, no it doesn't. Plenty of local, state and National politicians have been previously married, but it doesn't factor into their "character".

[edit] Esperanza High School

I can't find an "Esperanza High School" in Los Angeles. Maybe it existed previously, but closed its doors, or maybe it had a different name. There is an Esperanza High School in Anaheim, part of the Placentia School Distrist. The wikipage Esperanza High School (Placentia, California) doesn't mention Villar/Villaraigosa's name, even as an attendee (vs. alum).

He didn't attend Esperanza High School. He attended Roosevelt High School; I have changed the page to reflect this, with a citation from the New Yorker.--Gloriamarie 17:07, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Last paragraph under "reputation" removed

That section was not relevant to "reputation" as it contained POV and somewhat ethnic slanderous comments by Conservative/Right Wing KFI radio hosts "John & Ken". Their commentaries cannot be listed as "reputation" based evidence. If that is the case then that section would have to include numerous comments from "supporters" of Villaraigosa, but of course that would be POV based commentary which is what we are avoiding in the first place in the main article. --Bourbon King 21:05, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I wonder why this article completely fails to mention that he has been and presumably still is a member of a violent, racist organization (considered a hate group by the Anti-Defamation League). [2] Peoplesunionpro (talk) 12:31, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

The article says "Villaraigosa was a leader of MEChA at UCLA." ·:· Will Beback ·:· 20:49, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Shouldn't Villaraigosa's leadership of MECha at UCLA be included in the "Early years and education" section? That would seem like a fitting part of the article to place information about his activities at UCLA. Sarnalios (talk) 00:15, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

That makes sense. I think biographies should be chonological as much as possible. I've made the move. 01:22, 20 November 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Will Beback (talk • contribs)

[edit] Ethics

Villaraigosa's first act as Mayor was requiring all city commissioners, his entire staff, and all city employees to sign an ethics pledge.

Why was this deleted? ·:· Will Beback ·:· 22:32, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV and other problems

There seems to be NPOV problems in miner doses throughout the article. "Long career" in the intro. Lots of policy talk that ends with "will cause X" when there is no guarantee that it would. The reputation section, as a title of a section, is sort of questionable. There is at least one sentence with "Villaraigosa believes" which is also questionable wording, potentially not NPOV or at least not encyclopedic. The sourcing is really lacking. The introduction needs to be expanded. The ethics section is too short or needs to be added to another section. There is no coverage of his Assembly career in which he was Speaker. Just some ideas to make the article better. Good luck.User:calbear22 (talk) 21:45, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Early life: "had a difficult childhood." No source. Not letting facts speak for themselves.User:calbear22 (talk) 22:10, 17 March 2008 (UTC)