Talk:Anomalously numbered roads in Great Britain

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article is within the scope of the UK Roads WikiProject, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of the UK's road network. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
Start	This article has been rated as start-Class on the assessment scale.
Mid	This article has been rated as mid-importance on the importance scale.

Contents 1 M48 2 M25 3 A604(M) 4 Boldness - an apology 5 A594 6 This article should be renamed 7 A601(M) 8 External links

[edit] M48

Is it numbered wrong? Its fully within zone 4 (comment left by 172.216.154.237 on 18th April 2006)

• The article appears to be correct that the M48 is in zone 5. Zone 5 is the entire area west of the M5 but south of the Scottish border. Zone 4 is the area north of the M4, east of the M5, south of the M6 and west of the M1. As the M48 is west of the M5, it should be in zone 5. Road Wizard 20:25, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

• The M48 is no where near zone 5!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Britain_road_numbering_scheme

Do your reserach, any thoughts or I'm changing it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.159.59.186 (talk • contribs) 19:14, 13 May, 2006 (UTC).

What you are refering to is "A" road zone 5, which is defined by the boundaries of the single digit "A" roads. Motorways have their own zone system based on the layout of the single digit motorways. The zones may be broadly similar for most of the country, but the zoning system is certainly different as far as it covers the west coast of England and Wales. Using the motorway zoning system, the M48 is technically in zone 5. Road Wizard 02:33, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

It's a matter of debate whether the zone boundary changes at all if a single-digit road is re-aligned. It's certainly north of the M4 now, but was once the M4, and I would suggest that it's probably appropriate that it has a M4x number. Also, it's difficult to determine exactly where the 3-zone/4-zone & 5-zones are in the South West/South Wales - there is little evidence on the ground (few motorways). I have certainly seen evidence that the motorway zones were devised very late on - certainly after the opening of the Preston Bypass in 1958. There is also evidence that I've seen that the 2-zone/3-zone boundary follows the rough route of the A30 or A303, rather than the M3. Richard B 23:23, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I am not questioning the appropriateness of the numbering of the M48. Most modern road numbering follows the pattern of convenience for the travelling public rather than strict adherence to the rigid zone structure. If you look at the anomalies listed in this article, I suspect you could find valid reasons for most of them as to why they are appropriate. However, this article is intended to list anomalies to the system no matter how appropriate they are. Yes the zoning system is somewhat confused along the west coast of England and Wales, but the M48 does share zone space with the M50. Either the M48 is anomalous to the system or the M50 is (or perhaps even both). Road Wizard 02:35, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I've just seen the original proposal for the motorway zones, dated about 1960; it does suggest that the M48 is the 3-zone/5-zone boundary on the English side of the Severn Bridge, and that on the Welsh side - it lies entirely within the 5-zone (along with the rest of Wales). The motorway 4-zone is the region enclosed by the M1/M6/M5 and M4. So the M50 is correctly in its zone, the M48 should have a 5-zone number, and the M49 does lie entirely within the 3-zone. Richard B 11:14, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] M25

Is the M25 really numbered wrongly? It begins in the 2 zone, so takes a 2 number regardless of which zone it ends up in. Owain 08:55, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Yes, that is correct. It starts in the 2M zone, and then moves clockwise into the 3M, 4M and 1M zones. GCarty 08:57, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Well, I think it should still be included. But at least it gets a mention here. -- RHaworth 17:19:32, 2005-08-02 (UTC)

What confuses the issue is that (like for a lot of roads in Kent) the A2 is NOT the grid boundary. So the M25 starts between the A1 and the A2 and you'd expect it to be a Zone 1 road unless you realise the boundary isn't the A2. Cheers, Wol

[edit] A604(M)

I question the existance of this road. The only section I can think of that this could mean is the A14/A1(M) spur at Alconbury, but the section from Huntingdon to Haverhill (Through Cambridge) has not been the A604 since the A14 was re-numbered.

As a resident of the county in which this road is supposed to exist, I have no knowledge of it existing wither now or at any time in the past. Could someone please either confirm for or against and remove it if neccessary. - Burwellian 13:46, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

• I don't know if the A604(M) still exists, but there was one in 1993. I dug up a Statutory Instrument that refers to it at that time: The A604(M) Motorway (Alconbury to A1(M) Section) And Connecting Roads Scheme 1993. Road Wizard 23:21, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Boldness - an apology

I missed the line about the importance of the boldness. You might want to revert my edit. Erath 14:00, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

It's OK - I've put the bolding back the way it should be, while retaining the rest of your welcome additions. --GCarty 16:45, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Ta muchly. I don't feel half as stupid now! Erath 19:06, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] A594

Might want to stick A594 road here, as its the only example I know of a duplicate road number. Morwen - Talk 15:23, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

No there are other duplicate roads, which you can read about here. They should really be on a new page, as this page is devoted to out-of-zone roads. GCarty 19:10, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] This article should be renamed

I think "Incorrectly" numbered roads is misleading - surely the numbers are correct, since they are the designated numbers given to the roads in question. "Inconsistently numbered roads" is a better choice, IMHO, since the numbering is inconsistent with the official system. Comments? TH 08:54, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

I'll Support that. - JVG 12:37, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

Renaming to "Anomalously numbered roads in Great Britain"... --GCarty 18:32, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] A601(M)

This doesn't really fit into any of the categories listed; but the A601(M) should be the name of the a601 under motorway regulations. Infact, it is a small spur of the M6 near Carnforth; the A601 is in Derby! Should a new box be created for this?Robdurbar 08:26, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

• It would be interesting to know when the A601 and the A601(M) were built/redesignated to see which was mistakenly numbered. I think the A601(M) was given its new number in 1970, as this would have been when it became a spur of the M6 due to the extension of the motorway into Westmorland (present day Cumbria). Does anyone know when the A601 was built? Road Wizard 22:18, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External links

An anonymous editor keeps removing the link to SABRE : The Society for All British Road Enthusiasts. I can't see any reason not to have this here - what does anyone else think? --OpenToppedBus - Talk to the driver 15:50, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

The SABRE site itself may not be of that much interest to the subject matter of the article, but their road list certainly is. So I propose to link to the Road Lists directly. TH 10:43, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Ill go with that. Sorry I have no idea how to sign comments properly, but its evoke1 here :)

--80.177.154.183 11:39, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Sounds good to me too. Evoke, once you're logged in you can sign and date using four tildes, like ~~~~. --OpenToppedBus - Talk to the driver 12:06, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

The link CBRD specifically contains information regarding road numbering, as done the other "out of zone roads". SABRE covers UK roads in general, and is not specific enough to be included on this highly specific topic. nor should the Highways Agency link (my fault, fixed) --evoke1 - evoke1 19:50, 28 November 2005 (UTC)