Talk:Angel Moroni

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1 1827
2 merge from Moroni (Book of Mormon)
3 Trademark
4 References
5 Image
6 Moroni not an "angel"
7 Merge proposal
8 Disambiguation paragraph

[edit] 1827

The following was in the article 1827. I am not sure how important this was for Mormonism. Since it is not in this article, and there were 20 visits, I removed it there. If it is important, then it should be merged into this article. Common Man 08:45, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

September 21 - Joseph Smith, Jr. claims that the angel Moroni gave him a record of gold plates, one-third of which is translated into The Book of Mormon

[edit] merge from Moroni (Book of Mormon)

Hi,

I'm not a Mormon, so I'm gonna copy all the info about the Prophet Moroni that I'm moving here from the article Moroni (Book of Mormon), in case I don't edit things correctly:

The latter is the son of Mormon, and was the last prophet to write in the Book of Mormon. He is also identified by Joseph Smith as the angel who directed him to the Hill Cumorah, to the gold plates from which Mormons believe the Book of Mormon was translated. Moroni² lived in the fourth century AD. ... is indexed in the LDS edition as Moroni². [main|Moroni (prophet) Moroni² is the son of Mormon², for whom the Book of Mormon is named. He was the last survivor of the Nephite nation. He made some additions to Mormon's abridgement of the record that became the Book of Mormon. The Book of Moroni, the last book in the Book of Mormon is named after Moroni².

son of Mormon, (late 4th Century AD).

References to Moroni² in the index to the LDS edition of the Book of Mormon.

--Ling.Nut 19:25, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

OK, I'm looking, and all I see in the above that is not in the main article is five things:

A link to Record of the Nephites
Moroni was the last prophet to write in the Book of Mormon
He was the last survivor of the Nephite nation.
References to Moroni² in the index to the LDS edition of the Book of Mormon.
is indexed in the LDS edition as Moroni².

I'm gonna add the first four. The last one seems like a minor detail, but if someone wants to add it, then go for it. --Ling.Nut 19:41, 17 September 2006 (UTC) I converted to the Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints in 1955. I have no arguments with the article nor the discussion.Ccpoodle 06:26, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trademark

Has anyone checked the US trademark directory? I did and could find no trademark registered under moroni. I posted this on the moroni page and it was quickly deleted. Can someone direct me to proof of a trademark besides an article on cnn's website? Datwoody 22:45, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] References

Was going to post the Trademark reference, but noticed that someone beat me to it. I fixed the reference list instead.

Please, refer to Wikipedia:Footnotes for footnotes/references

To0n 17:15, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image

Hello, I've got this image of Moroni from Hill Cumorah. I just thought I'd post it here in case the article was ever expanded and needed another image.--Eva ^bd 22:05, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Can anyone tell me in what language that uses the Latin alphabet would the word be pronounced "moronai"? This escapes me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.162.77.10 (talk) 21:13, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Moroni not an "angel"

This use of the term "angel" is not supported by secular dictionary definition nor even by primary LDS scriptures:[1][2] you will not find Smith using the term either. Personage and Messenger is what was used by Joseph Smith, not angel. Mr.grantevans2 (talk) 13:27, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Except angel and messenger are the same thing.

An angel (from Greek: άγγελος, angelos, "messenger")

So it seems reasonable to use the term given the context I would think. --81.150.229.68 (talk) 12:05, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

And additionally, regardless of what he was called in the past, it is clearly the most common term used today to refer to him, so what's the issue? Zoporific 12:11, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Moroni is an angel. Joseph Smith himself said so. He said numerous times in his testimonies that he was an angel, just like Gabriel(Noah). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.169.147.237 (talk) 03:18, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merge proposal

The following discussion is archived. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Retracting proposal due to numerous dissenting opinions. --Descartes1979 (talk) 02:07, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Why are there two articles for Moroni, here and here? They are the same person - I propose we merge them. Please vote:

~~MergeNeutral~~Merge --Descartes1979 (talk) 23:21, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- Changing my mind after reading some of the other perspectives. --Descartes1979 (talk) 02:27, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
  - Changed my mind again - I understand what some of you are saying - but it doesn't change the fact that everyone connected with Mormonism considers them to be the same person - it would be pretty easy to merge them and talk about the issues you guys mention - and would be far less confusing for people that are unfamiliar with Mormonism. --Descartes1979 (talk) 06:33, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
    - "...everyone connected with Mormonism considers them to be the same person..." This isn't true. Some of the smaller Latter Day Saint sects believe the visitor who visited Smith was Nephi from the Book of Mormon, who is quite a different character from Moroni (separated by about 1000 years in the storyline, in fact). Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 08:55, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Merge The sooner we minimise this sort of spam from Wp the better. I am not sure this is how you do a merge proposal however. Albatross2147 (talk) 01:20, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- According to the guidelines at WP:Merge, this is the appropriate way to propose a merge. --Descartes1979 (talk) 07:07, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Oppose merge. In the Latter Day Saint movement, not all people agree that Angel Moroni is the same as Moroni the prophet, which a reading of Angel Moroni reveals. When Joseph Smith wrote one account of the angel coming to him, he called him "Nephi", and there is still some dispute about whether Smith claimed it was the prophet Nephi or the prophet Moroni. The LDS Church teaches that the Angel Moroni and the prophet Moroni are the same, but other groups disagree. Many think that the Angel Moroni was actually the prophet Nephi. To merge would be LDS Church-centric. It is the largest group of Latter Day Saints, but it's not the only one and more than their view should be presented. The article says "most" Latter Day Saints view the Moronis as the same person, but that's only because there are far more members of the LDS Church than any other Latter Day Saint organization. I'm not at all clear how either of the articles qualify as "spam". Snocrates 07:26, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Merge - Spam? either we have an editor ignorant of the topic, incapable of self-expression, or is exhibiting the kind of intolerance that only the KKK or Nazis were capable; regardless, it makes me very concerned when I find something in common with that ilk. However,I see no reason for two articles on the same person. Snocrates does bring a valid point, but it is a point that can still be covered in a single article. Redundancy does not help readers or editors. --Storm Rider ^(talk) 07:57, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
- Godwin's law ;) --Descartes1979 (talk) 16:06, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Strongly Oppose Merge as I agree with Snocrates. Smith never referred to Moroni as an angel: Moroni was a resurrected human being and it would be similar to merging articles about Jesus into one called "Angel Jesus". In addition, Storm Rider's personal attack of another editor directly above should qualify Storm Rider for an immediate and long-term block, especially with the vicious Nazi and KKK analogy. Mr.grantevans2 (talk) 14:56, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
- Comment I would strongly oppose such a block. SR is generally civil whilst he holds strong opinions. He is not a vandal. He knows, I imagine, that what he wrote is intemperate but it's not anything I would lose sleep over. Albatross2147 (talk) 23:00, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
- Comment Actually, Smith did refer to Moroni as an angel, though in a later description of the event, in D&C 128:20. --FyzixFighter (talk) 06:40, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
  - This might identify qualities rather than a type of being. Acts 6:15 refers to Stephen as "angel" and John 12:29 refers to the voice of God as the voice of an angel. Plus, the fact Smith's use of that term (if the D&C record is correct that he did use that term) so much later indicates it was a secondary description and that the Angel Moroni article could be merged into the Prophet Moroni article but definitely not the other way around. Mr.grantevans2 (talk) 15:38, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
I have to say no merge. The angel and the Book of Mormon writer are not necessarily the same subject (and some would argue, not necessarily the same person). Plus, the angel means much more than the man. We have angel Moroni iconography and art, as well. Merging the two would be like merging Gabriel with Noah or Michael (archangel) with Adam. COGDEN 20:30, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Merge Moroni enters American history through Joseph Smith. The distinctions pointed out by User:Snocrates are not serious enough to justify separate articles. Indeed, separate articles would, I think, mislead the naive (non-LDS) reader. The clarification written above by User:Snocrates (with references of course) should be incorporated into the merged article as a significant alternative view. Robert1947 (talk) 03:10, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
Oppose merge — On the face, these would appear to be articles that should be merged. Rather than repeat, I would say that COGDEN's comments match most closely with what I would write to argue my point. However, both articles need to make clear in the introduction the points about why they are not one article. — Val42 (talk) 03:29, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Oppose merge Even though Moroni and Angel Moroni are the same people, they talk about two different subjects. One is the mortal Moroni, and the other is his Celestialized form. I say that these pages need to be left alone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.37.129.145 (talk) 19:54, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

[edit] Disambiguation paragraph

The disambiguation paragraph at the top of this article has become rather large. Can't we come up with some way to shorten this? — Val42 (talk) 19:06, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I think an {otheruses} to Moroni and a {seealso} to Moroni (prophet) should be sufficient. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 06:25, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

I've changed it. — Val42 (talk) 16:35, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

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Talk:Angel Moroni

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Contents

[edit] 1827

[edit] merge from Moroni (Book of Mormon)

[edit] Trademark

[edit] References

[edit] Image

[edit] Moroni not an "angel"

[edit] Merge proposal

[edit] Disambiguation paragraph

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