Talk:André Gide

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Contents 1 Biography assessment rating comment 2 Automated Wikipedia link suggester 3 Pederasty 4 Daugther... factual accuracy questioned. 5 Perhaps a misleading introductory statement 6 list of works

[edit] Biography assessment rating comment

WikiProject Biography Assessment

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 17:01, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Automated Wikipedia link suggester

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[edit] Pederasty

How about mentioning Gide's pederasty, i.e. sexual desire for male teenagers? David.Monniaux 19:00, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Go for it, if you have the info. Though I'd caution you to include references (which should be included all the time anyway) when you deal with touchy subjects like this. -Seth Mahoney 01:33, Apr 2, 2005 (UTC)

Very simple, first Marc Allégret was only 16 in 1916 when they became lovers, so Marc was clearly a male teenager. Then you take the Souvenirs et voyage volume in Bibliothèque de la Pléiade and the section about the Voyage in Congo, and he is very open about the good times he had with the African kids (same thing about his companion and lover Marc Allégret). It is smoothed out in the final text, but when since Pléiade is a critical edition you get the manuscript and it's extremely explicit. I couldn't believe he was so open about it. His interest is also in little girls as well.Hektor 07:34, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

• • ...Un peu plus tard, l'enfant, appelé par Adoum sur mon invite, aidait celui-ci à dresser nos lits. Je l'avais pris contre moi, ému de le sentir si confiant et si tendre.
  • ...Ils me rejoignent et j'emmène celui qui, quelques heures plus tôt, répondait déjà à mes avances. Il me suit dans ma chambre vide et je ne sais si j'ai jamais rencontré compagnon de lit plus charmant.
  • ...le marmiton ramène une charmante fillette, si pudique, si jeune, si craintive que l'on ne comprend pas comment elle a pu se décider à le suivre. La scène a lieu sur le sac de couchage, devant mon lit, éclairé par un photophore. Marc ne parvient pas à triompher, ou que bien peu, des résistances de la fillette, sur laquelle il s'obstine, désireux aussi de s'instruire, car on lui a dit que toutes les femmes étaient excisées. De mon lit, de derrière la moustiquaire, qui me rend invisible à demi, j'assiste à ce travail. On dirait l'effort pour ouvrir une boîte de conserve dont on aurait perdu la clef. Et cela dure, cela dure...

There is a section of one of the biographies I've read of Oscar Wilde that also deals with his interest in boys, specifically related to the time Wilde and Gide spent in Algiers. I can't remember which text it is exactly, but I will look it up this evening and may make a suggestions adding some content. Ljpmn79 20:31, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Daugther... factual accuracy questioned.

"In 1923 he conceived a daughter named Catherine with another woman, Maria Van Rysselberghe."

This is probably wrong. I think it should actually be replaced by

"In 1923 he conceived a daughter named Catherine with Elisabeth van Rysselberghe, daugther of Maria van Rysselberghe and the painter Théo van Rysselberghe, a couple of Gide's friends.

Can anybody confirm this? I am not very sure about these things. Thanks. --Edcolins 12:12, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)

Catherine was the extramarital daughter of André Gide and Elisabeth van Rysselberghe. As Théo van Rysselberghe (and his wife Maria) were very good friends with André Gide (and his wife Madeleine), the birth of his granddaughter, fathered by his best friend, incurred his displeasure. But in the end his accepted this birth. JoJan 19:55, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Perhaps a misleading introductory statement

After finishing the four volumes of The Journals of Andre Gide, I turned to Wilkepedia for some dates and background. I find Gide introduced as simply a French author and a "spokesman named Gide for gay rights." Although certainly in the journals (excellent) there is homosexual reference in terms of Alex's friendship with Proust, etc., and Gide's somewhat mysterious lovers, those references are certainly side ones and the depth and breadth of Alex's achievement, in terms of his grappling with literary achievement and form, religion, the subconscious, and so many other areas, are what really come acros in the journals (and novels). Certainly reference to Alex's obscured homosexuality might find a prominent place in your discussion of his life and achievement, but "spokesman for gay rights" seems rather absurd, if only because "gay rights" surely was not a championed cause, by that name, in either France or the English speaking world during Gide's long lifetime. I am by no means a Gide specialist, but I know enough of his life and work to understand that Wilkepedia's article on him is both oddly skewed and surely guilty of reading the terminology of our recent gender discourse into a complicated life that, I suspect, deserves more complexity than such a label suggests. Yes, the four volumes of the journals touch on a universe of issues, and homosexuality (although not "gay rights") is one of them. Give that subject and important place in your essay here, but encourage someone with a greater sense of Gide's life and work to deepen the essay and also complicate the essay's "introduction." [by anonymous contributor]

Thank you very much for your remark. I have added a note in the article to highlight that the statement "spokesman for gay rights" might not be correct and accurate enough, as you have pointed it out. Let's wait the reply of other contributors, otherwise, the statement "spokesman for gay rights" will be removed or rewritten. --Edcolins 19:31, August 24, 2005 (UTC)

You can write that he is very open in his books about his homosexuality, for instance in his souvenirs in North Africa , see Si le grain ne meurt .

In the Wikified article there are the sentences : "In 1893 and 1894 Gide traveled in northern Africa. He befriended Oscar Wilde in Algiers and there clearly recognized his own pederastic orientation." It strikes me that there is no evidence for the implication caused by the wording of these, namely that meeting Oscar Wilde was somehow connected with Gide's recognition of his 'pederastic orientation. The concept of 'pederasty' is itself problematic without all kinds of link exploration. (What is the term for adolescents who are attracted to older persons?) At any rate it would seem that Gide was often violating various French laws and would have needed to make deals to stay out of prison. How come his diary entries are accepted so readily when it comes to Herschel Grynszpan's relationship with Ernst vom Rath? Sounds like Gide was attracted to Herschel Grynszpan. Oldcitycat 00:46, 6 March 2006 (UTC)oldcitycat March 5, 2006

"It was Oscar Wilde and Alfred Douglas who introduced André Gide (1869-1951) to pederasty in Algeria," is from The Knitting Circle, a generally reliable website. I seem to remember the same, perhaps from "Si le Grain ne Meurt"? I am not sure what to make of the rest of your post. Haiduc 01:13, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

You say:"I am not sure what to make of the rest of your post."If you look at the article on Herschel Grynszpan this will be clearer. Gide had an entry in his diaries that has been used as evidence of a homosexual relationship between Grynszpan and vom Rath beginning in the late summer of 1938. Gide claimed to have seen the two around in bars..and expresses an attraction to Grynszpan's eyes. Most probably Gide helped French authorities to spread this and other rumors in the gay community of Paris immediately after the shooting at the German embassy became known. Most probably he liked the photographs of Grynszpan that appeared in all the newspapers. Either he put it in his diaries so as not to forget what he had said..or he forgot that he had never seen the pair together````oldcitycat. March 6,2006.

Very interesting. But why do you question Gide's veracity? Does anyone have info on where to find this in the diaries? Haiduc 12:26, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] list of works

Shouldn't the titles be in English? Zigzig20s 01:09, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

personally, i think it's better when titles are given in the original language. but for those works available in english, translations should probably be provided as well.--ponyboy 00:57, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps the list should be in English, and then on each specific page the original title should be mentioned? Zigzig20s 02:43, 11 April 2007 (UTC)