Talk:Alice Munro

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article must adhere to the policy on biographies of living persons. Controversial material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted or if there are other concerns relative to this policy, report it on the living persons biographies noticeboard.

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.	Biography Portal
Start	This article has been rated as start-Class on the project's quality scale. [FAQ]
	This article is supported by the Arts and Entertainment work group.

[edit] Removed material

Material removed from Munro (disambiguation) page. Espresso Addict 20:53, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for doing that. Those paragraphs were copied directly from the Canadian Encyclopedia, so I have removed them from this page, as well. I've added a couple of bits to our article (which evidently drew from the Canadian Encyclopedia as well but paraphrased, rather than copied). Sunray 21:13, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. It did look like a cut & paste job, but I couldn't find the source. I'll also remove the duplicate from the disambiguation talk page. Espresso Addict 22:29, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alleged unsourced POV material

The article stated Munro is "widely considered one of the greatest short story writers in modern literature." Says who? Source? Sounds pretty POV to me. Munro has a fair number of detractors, which her supporter Sue Miller noted in her introduction to the Best American Short Stories of 2002. I reworked to a more neutral statement.207.69.139.11 05:40, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't think the original ("widely considered one of the greatest short story writers in modern literature") is POV, especially if altered to read "widely considered one of the greatest short-story writers in contemporary Anglophone literature." And how is anyone going to source that statement anyway? A.S. Byatt called her "the world's greatest short story writer" and plenty of other people have made similar points. But that still isn't a poll that could accurately source such an idea. And of course she has plenty of detractors--so does every single writer, living or dead,who is of any importance--Shakespeare most definitely included. I haven't reverted or altered it--I'll see if there's a response to this--but I think the statement about her status should be less "neutral" and more accurate. 68.167.113.58 16:07, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I cleaned up the lede, removing POV and unsourced opinion statements that often reads like original research or something glommed from someone's term paper. Specifically, the issues are as follows (ital indicates material originally in article):

[She is] widely considered one of the world's premier fiction writers.—An unsourced opinion.

Her stories focus on human relationships looked at through the lens of daily life.—Unsourced and/or original research.

[H]er reputation as a short-story writer is international.—Unsourced and/or original research.

Her "accessible, moving stories" explore human complexities in a seemingly effortless style.—Unsourced opinion and/or original research.

All of the above could be returned to the article if sourced.

Munro's writing has established her as "a major voice among fiction writers."—This is sourced but comes directly from her publisher's publicity material and should therefore be identified accordingly, which I have done. 71.175.28.121 (talk) 22:03, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Those summaries and quotes are from Meyer Literature's site. This is not her publisher. Meyer is a university instructor. The biography on Munro appears with others about Faulkner, Hawthorne, Joyce and O'Connor.

The lead needs expanding beyond its formerly skimpy version. I have no objection to people editing and improving my additions, but please do not just delete sourced material. Sunray (talk) 08:05, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

The material is not sourced. You returned it and put in no citations; therefore, it is not sourced. I have, accordingly, tagged it. Meyer's page is hosted by Bedford/St. Martin's press, which is an affiliate subsidiary of one of her publishers (Bedford/St. Martin publishes study guides for some of Munro's books, as it does for other authors like Faulkner and Joyce). Therefore, it's publicity material. It's not a neutral third party. You can find that kind of publicity on any publisher's website for nearly any author. It would be far better to source from neutral third parties such as from reviews of her books. 71.175.28.121 (talk) 16:29, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

The citation near the end of the paragraph gives you the source. Every word was a paraphrase or a quote of sourced material. If you have concerns about that source, let's discuss that further.

I can find no record of Bedford/St. Martins being Munro's publisher. Her recent books have been published in the UK by Vintage and she has had previous relationships with Penguin and long ago with Random House and Viking. Now I have scant knowledge of the interrelationships of British publishers, so perhaps Vintage is owned by Bedford/St Martins, but I can find no evidence of that. Would you be able to clarify this for me? On the other hand, Bedford/St Martins has established a site with a wide range of resources on literature.[1] Munro is one of the authors (along with the others I mentioned above) who are featured in their "Authors in depth section."[2] Since the "Authors in Depth" biographies are written by Fred Michael Meyer, a university instructor, I tend to seem them as a reliable sources. However, there are lots of other citations we could use with statements about Munro's international fame. Sunray (talk) 21:22, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

The page you linked says it was written by someone named Michael Meyer, not Fred Meyer, but there is no identification on that site who he is. I agree with 71.175.28.121 that a better source should be found for such subjective statements. The page you link is not an informational page; it's a place to sell books. Whether or not Bedford/St. Martins has any relation to Alice Munro is really immaterial because the page you link is promotional material for Michael Meyer. He and Bedford are trying to sell his books, which are study guides for Alice Munro's works. By promoting her, he and Bedford promote themselves, so it's a subjective source, not an objective one. Material like this in a Wikipedia biography diminishes the subject's standing because it sounds like obvious puffery. It's flowery and unencyclopedic IMHO. McPoet (talk) 15:07, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Right, Michael Meyer. As I said, he is an instructor,[3] and I can detect no particular connection with Munro. However, I will find other sources. Sunray (talk) 15:34, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

I've added two references that should shore up our need for reliable sources: One by Garan Holcombe writing for the British Council series on Contemporary Writers and another from the New York Times Magazine. That should do the trick, but if anyone believes that is still inadequate, there are plenty move available. Sunray (talk) 23:19, 25 February 2008 (UTC)