Talk:Akrotiri and Dhekelia

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Contents 1 Maps 2 Split question 3 City question 4 Vote to split this article. 5 Votes in favour of splitting this article. 6 Votes not in favour of splitting this article. 7 Proposed change of name for article 8 Guantanamo Bay 9 What percentage of land is taken by the UK bases on the Greek Cypriot land? 10 Overseas territory 11 Flag 12 BRITISH SOLDIER - RAPE CASE OF LOUISE JENSEN 13 PRESIDENT COMMENTS 14 Egyptian guerrillas were flown into Larnaca for interrogation 15 International controversy

[edit] Maps

It looks like CIA got its Dhekelia map wrong. The area to the north of the UN buffer zone is not under the control of the Republic of Cyprus but under turkish occupation (or Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus administration, according to your PoV) Mavros

No, its just that no country recognizes the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, except Turkey. Takeshi

My statement above refers to an older version of the map which was wrong. The map has been corrected. Mavros 15:36, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Split question

Why aren't there separate articles for Akrotiri and Dhekelia? They are listed as separate entities in the CIA Factbook. —Cantus…☎ 21:01, Dec 31, 2004 (UTC)

Could somebody create a map of all Cyprus with dots to indicate where these territories are located? RickK 09:45, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)

See UK sovereign base and/or Image:Cy-map.png. - Hoshie/Crat 00:42, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] City question

As for this edit, I am interested to know if Akrotiri and Dhekelia are cities. Thanks. — Instantnood 21:41, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

They are villages really Mavros 22:49, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vote to split this article.

Here's a section where you can cast a vote on whether or not you are in favour of 2 separate articles - Akrotiri Sovereign Base Area and Dhekelia Sovereign Base Area.One vote per person please. - (Aidan Work 01:58, 26 December 2005 (UTC))

[edit] Votes in favour of splitting this article.

I have always been in favour of 2 separate articles under the 2 above-mentioned names. The lists of the Administrators of the 2 S.B.A.'s should be included. - (Aidan Work 01:58, 26 December 2005 (UTC))

[edit] Votes not in favour of splitting this article.

• Despite what the CIA lists, Akrotiri and Dhekelia is considered by the UK to be one entity not two. Shocktm | Talk | Contributions 15:32, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Shocktm, constitutionally, Akrotiri & Dhekelia are 2 separate entities. Legislation made for Akrotiri has no legal force in Dhekelia & vice-versa. This is why there should be 2 separate articles. - (Aidan Work 01:22, 27 December 2005 (UTC))

Everything I have seen including http://www.sba.mod.uk/ indicates that the SBAs are one entity. They have one administrator (Currently Peter Thomas Clayton Pearson ), one capital (Episkopi), one police force, etc. I could be wrong but it does not apprear to be seperate entities to me. Shocktm | Talk | Contributions 02:50, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

[1] suggests there may be a few local ordinances for Akrotiri, but that almost all ordinances apply across the SBAs. --Henrygb 19:13, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

The local ordinances relating to Akrotiri actually relate to the Greek Cypriot village of Akrotiri. They probably come about because the village is the only civilian Cypriot community within the SBAs sizeable enough to warrent a measure of local government. All the villages inside the Eastern SBA boundaries were actually made Republic of Cyprus enclaves and subject to that country's rule of law. I believe that at the time of the setting up of the SBAs, the villagers of Akrotiri were paid compensation to relocate. For one reason or another they didn't, they were never forced to leave and have remained to this day. Incidentally, Akrotiri is the name of;

• The Greek Cypriot village
• The peninsular that forms the southern most part of the Western Sovereign Base Area (and of Cyprus)
• The bay to the east of the peninsular, and south of Limassol
• The Salt Lake in the middle of the peninsular, winter home to flocks of flamingos
• The RAF base, RAF Akrotiri on the southern edge of the peninsular, that takes up 15mi² of the Western SBA's 47.5mi²

--Dashers 06:01, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Schedule 6 of the British Nationality Act 1981 (as amended) lists all the British overseas territories. The SBAs comprise a single territory, not two. JAJ 00:33, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

If this article is to remain as one, it should not continue with its current title- it is basically an article on the Sovereign Base Areas in Cyprus, and should be titled as such- ie Sovereign Base Areas (Cyprus), with the current Sovereign Base Areas article retained for disambiguation purposes. The article is basically expanding on what is written in that article anyway. To make Akrotiri and Dhekelia the title of the article is misleading when there is more in it than just those 2 bases. There are multiple entities within the sovereign base areas, but the SBAs themselves are governed together- by the Sovereign Base Area administration, which has civilian governance over all areas outside the Military installations. All areas within the military installations come under military governance.--Dashers 15:23, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

As mentioned previously, the Sovereign Base Area administration with civilian resposibility for both SBAs is based in Episkopi, the British Army Garrison positioned at the northwest of the Western SBA on Cyprus' south coast. Military command for the Western SBA is in the hands of the Station Commander, RAF Akrotiri; military command for the Eastern SBA is the reponsibility of the Garrison Commander at Dhekelia; and the HQ for British Forces Cyprus is at Episkopi. The Commander for British Forces Cyprus based at the HQ in Episkopi is also the administrator of the SBA administration. The garrison of Episkopi is a few miles to the west of the Cypriot village of Episkopi, situated just north of the Western SBA's northern border.

--Dashers 06:01, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed change of name for article

I would like to reiterate my belief that the title of this article should be changed to "Sovereign Base Areas Cyprus". This is the name of the administritive unit that both these areas fall under, as per the Sovereign Base Areas web site [2].Locally the areas are known as Western Sovereign Base Area and Eastern Sovereign Base Area, rather than Akrotiri and Dhekelia- these names refer to the RAF base and the Army garrison of the same names, each constituting just a part of their respective base areas. It concerns me that the CIA World Factbook is being used as the definitive authority on this issue rather than British Government material such as the SBA website and the British Forces Cyprus web site [3]. There are a number of inaccuracies in the CIA source- for instance, it states there are no indigenous inhabitants; however, there is the Cypriot village of Akrotiri in the WSBA that is under the governance of the SBA administration, not the Republic of Cyprus (unlike the villages in the ESBA). No where on the British Forces website does it refer to Episkopi as a Cantonment (however, Dhekelia is). Episkopi, as an army garrison, hardly qualifies to be called a capital- it is an Administritive Centre. --Dashers 03:05, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

• suport Reaper7 08:51, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
• Support. Dragases 08:46, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
• Support. JAJ (talk) 01:16, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I fully agree, having lived in the ESBA for a year and the WSBA for almost four years, neither are referred to in the ways outlined in this article. The WSBA includes the RAF Base called Akrotiri and the British Army Garrison of Episkopi, each of which are named after nearby Cypriot villages. The ESBA includes the military bases of Dhekelia and Ayios Nikolaos. Both of the SBAs comprise areas of land which are not inside the military bases. Contrary to what it says in the article Episkopi is not the capital of anything. I think the CIA Factbook could do with a lot of updating. If it can get this small area so fundamentally wrong then I wonder about its other articles. * Support. Fatspoonwiki 22:26, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Guantanamo Bay

I'm not seeing any reasion in the article for the see also link to Guantanamo Bay. If there is one, it really should not point to the disamb. article, it chould point to the correct mainspace atricle. Should I remove it, point it to Guantanamo Bay Naval Base or Guantánamo Bay, Cuba? Zvar 03:33, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Just delete it I think. It's enough that both belong to Category:Overseas military bases, no real need to refer to it in the "See also" section. --Mathew5000 07:46, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What percentage of land is taken by the UK bases on the Greek Cypriot land?

From the maps of this article - it looks like a significant percentage/. Reaper7 15:25, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

None! The UK Bases are on British land not Cypriot land Greek or otherwise. YourPTR! 22:28, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Overseas territory

The SBAs seem to be listed frequently on Wikipedia (and the CIA Factbook) as separate British territories, but the article seems to infer (or even state outright) that they aren't anything more than British military bases, albeit not located on British soil (I would imagine that Akrotiri and Dhekelia aren't the only British bases overseas, though.) Why are these bases usually listed as territories? True this is probably a discussion for the talk pages of the various lists of countries on Wikipedia, but since the ones that list the SBAs all link here, might as well discuss here. --Canuckguy 13:54, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

The SBAs comprise a single British Overseas Territory. They are the only bases in the world that are the sovereign territory of the operating nation (although British sovereignty is restricted by the terms of the treaty with Cyprus). Guantanamo Bay is an American base on Cuban sovereign territory, albeit leased to the United States. JAJ (talk) 02:14, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Flag

This website shows a separate flag for use on Akrotiri and Dhekelia rather than the UK flag, is this just unofficial? [4] - J Logan ^t: 21:35, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Inofficial fantasy flag. —Nightstallion 01:49, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

I have to second what Nightstallion has said. The flag sold by flagsonline.it is bogus. See the deletion debate for these images on Commons. - Thanks, Hoshie 12:25, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] BRITISH SOLDIER - RAPE CASE OF LOUISE JENSEN

What is it with the people here, the soldiers were sentanced to 25 years and released after 13 years NOT the 2 years lie, that is on this wikipedia page see BBC source http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4792915.stm —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rockybiggs (talk • contribs) 11:08, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] PRESIDENT COMMENTS

Why is this comment mentioned on this page. It is not helpful or needed.

This is British land, the same as Buckingham Palace is British Land. Therefore why are these comments here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.49.4.199 (talk) 11:12, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

It is mentioned because it suggests the government of Cyprus may challenge British sovereignty over the base areas. That in itself is notable. ·ΚέκρωΨ· (talk) 13:40, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

What it surgests is irrelevant. As the Republic of Cyprus has no ownership of this land. In legal and international legal terms this is British land, unless Britain decided to give this land to the Republic of Cyprus. This is not an arguement but a fact as per Zürich and London Agreement (1960 Treaty of Guarantee). (talk • contribs) (Rockybiggs (talk) 14:00, 31 January 2008 (UTC)).

We know what it is now. The paragraph refers to a possible change in its status at some point in the future. The way this may be brought about is unclear, but it is a prospect that is still worth mentioning. ·ΚέκρωΨ· (talk) 14:47, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

If this is to be left submitted, then British Sovereignty, must also be mentioned. To present a fair and balenced view. Leaving these comments as is, indicates the land can be taken back at anytime. Rockybiggs (talk) 16:28, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

How you mean? British sovereignty is mentioned throughout the article. Hint: look at the flag if you can't be bothered reading it. ·ΚέκρωΨ· (talk) 17:21, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

This is a irrelevant remark, and should be removed or amended 172.159.150.122 (talk) 17:28, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Further more the source is in Greek, how do we know what the scource states. This is the English Language Wikipedia and Sources must only be in English. A new source in English must be added or comments must be removed Rockybiggs (talk) 13:26, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

It should be removed. It doesn't matter if the Cypriot President thinks the status of the bases is "under review" because it is nothing to do with him and the British point of view is the bases are not under review and Akrotiri and Dhekelia remain British forever. If the bases were under review than so would Cyprus' status as an independent state, but it is not. YourPTR! (talk) 08:38, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

I disagree. There are ways, both legal and political, in which the Republic of Cyprus could contest the sovereignty of the base areas, if it so desired. Your point about the British view being the only relevant one is not quite convincing, either. It was also the British view at the turn of the last century that Cyprus would remain British forever, as would the rest of the Empire, for that matter. ·ΚέκρωΨ· (talk) 08:43, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Since Tassos Papadopoulos has failed to be relected anyway, surely the point is moot? --Arwel (talk) 12:44, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

It remains to be seen how his successor will deal with Britain. The frontrunner, Dimitris Christofias, is the leader of the communist AKEL, after all. ·ΚέκρωΨ· (talk) 12:54, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Deals with Britain ? whoever it is they have no power to deal with Britain. This was a silly comment, to boost Papadopoulos pre-election propects. This is UK soil period. A stupid comment which is not needed or worthy of any comment.Rockybiggs (talk) 13:10, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

In a section titled "Dispute with Cyprus", the comments of the Cypriot president are relevant and notable, unlike your British nationalism. ·ΚέκρωΨ· (talk) 23:50, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

NO they are not relavant, stop putting your Greek POV on this page.

This British Land and will remain so. Please see WP:DBF

Rockybiggs (talk) 09:20, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

This is getting very boring and tedious now.

I am not the only one who has stated the comments of the President of Cyprus, are not of merit. I am not imposing my views on this i am being neutral, I have a real problem with the Greek point of view being made, and the comments `has cast fresh doubt on the continued British presence`. These comments imply that the President of Cyprus can kick the British out anytime, which of coarse is not the case. Surely you can see the NPOV here !? The base is British, so why does, the comments of the Cyprus President matter ? Except to make the Greek POV feel better.(also the source doesn`t mention any comments). (Futher point why can`t you use the talk page instead of Reverting all the time. )Rockybiggs (talk) 15:37, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I have made my points on the relevant talk page, if you'd bothered to read them. The stance of the President of Cyprus, whether you like it or not, does affect the future of the bases. The real question is, if British sovereignty is as unassailable as you claim, why are you so intent on censoring the so obviously inconsequential Cypriot view? If we followed your argument elsewhere, we wouldn't mention the Argentine claim on the Malvinas either, as according to you the sun never sets. Whatever. ·ΚέκρωΨ· (talk) 16:16, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Once again you miss the point, Yes the Argentines claim the Falkland islands, BUT it doesnt`t mater what their President states, as Legally they are British. As per the U.N surport for the U.K when they Invaded.

I dont think your POV comments about the sun never sets are helpfull either.

I propose a compromise, that the comments `has cast fresh doubt on the continued British presence`, are removed. Rockybiggs (talk) 16:35, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Further more i await your reponse to avoid any silly revert war Rockybiggs (talk) 16:43, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Exactly. Although you as a Brit may think it doesn't matter what Argentina says, the mere fact that British sovereignty is disputed by another country is notable in and of itself. You can't just ignore it. I have reworded the paragraph to reflect the source more accurately. ·ΚέκρωΨ· (talk) 16:49, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Ok i agree with your partial amendments (despite my own reservation as i dislike the left wing guardian, but thats my own POV.) Thank you for being a Gentleman. Rockybiggs (talk) 17:06, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Cheers, matey. And just out of curiosity, why do you rail against the "Greek POV" when you identify yourself as a "Greek Wikipedian"? ·ΚέκρωΨ· (talk) 17:12, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I think that is a bit unfair to say i rail against Greek. As i fully supoort the efforts to re-unite Cyprus from the Illegal Turkish occupation. I consider myself Britsh,

but i do have Greek Ancestry through my Greek Great-Grandfarther. Rockybiggs (talk) 17:18, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I would consider you British too, which is why I found your inclusion in the "Greek Wikipedians" category rather puzzling. But I guess it does that automatically when you put the Greek ancestry userbox in your profile. All good. ·ΚέκρωΨ· (talk) 17:22, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Egyptian guerrillas were flown into Larnaca for interrogation

The scouce for this is bogus (i.e the website doesn`t exsist).

Why are these comments here, when there is no proof or need. this a guess and not fact ???? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rockybiggs (talk • contribs) 11:21, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] International controversy

Votes for this section to be removedRockybiggs (talk) 11:24, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Why? It is sourced entirely from mainstream news sources. ·ΚέκρωΨ· (talk) 13:04, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Because the International controversy title alone in name is irrelevant. Not only was there no Interntional Controversy, and the comments are only suited to a cypriot propaganda agenda.

First paragraph: 1956 Suez crises comments

1) This first paragraph is plagiarism from the alleged source.

2) How can this be called a source, when these are not facts but one journalists opionion being raised in a newspaper article.

3) Which have been taken out of total context.

4) Plagiarism alone is a Wikipedia offence in its self.

British soldier rape case

1) There is already a Wikipedia page devoted to this rape case Louise Jensen.

2) I can`t see any reason why this case should be mentioned on this page, apart from a cypriot view, and as this is UK soil and the offences took place on cypriot soil,please tell me why they shouldn`t be omitted. Rockybiggs (talk) 14:53, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi Rockybiggs, please consider the following: the British military bases in cyprus are not exactly UK soil, they are sovereign! At the same time they are liable to the Republic of Cyprus laws in regards to Freedom of Access, Legislation, Public Services,Education, Agriculture, Co-operative Development, Labour and Social Insurance, Social Welfare, Health and Medical Services, Postal Services, Forestry Services, Customs, Currency and Exchange Control, Civil Proceedings, Criminal Proceedings, Prisons etc etc. They are a distinctive case. SBAs are meant to be military bases only. The laws of the UK do not apply to Cypriots in the SBAs. Regards Meander^₪ —Preceding comment was added at 13:58, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi 3meandEr, I accept your valid point on the soldiers rape case issue. Rockybiggs (talk) 14:10, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

i owe you a smiley :). Please also consider the following: The existance of the Republic of Cyprus (through its treaty of establishment) reinforces and does not hinder the sovereignty of the military bases, as they are bound by the same treaty. It is the cooperation of the two which makes possible the SBAs sovereignty. It is for the same reason Rockybiggs that the infobox of cyprus was added. To be honest i was bewildered when i saw it removed. Without the treaty, and the republics infrastructure the SBAs would not be the same. Kindly reconsider, thanks Meander^₪ 14:43, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Having the infobox only on the Republic of Cyprus page should be the correct and proper place. As Akrotiri and Dhekelia already has infobox, and is a Sovereign base (UK administered). From a presentational point of view as well. Rockybiggs (talk) 14:56, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Oh ok, Your are right, it doesnt look nice. Meander^₪ 15:12, 29 February 2008 (UTC)