From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Akdamar Island article.
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.	Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Be welcoming	Article policies No original research Neutral point of view Verifiability

This article is within the scope of the following WikiProjects:

Architecture WikiProject (Rated Start-Class) Architecture Portal This article covers subjects of relevance to Architecture. To participate, visit the WikiProject Architecture for more information. The current monthly improvement drive is Johannes Itten. Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the assessment scale. High This article has been rated as High-importance on the assessment scale. WikiProject Turkey (Rated Start-Class) Turkey Portal This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Turkey, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Turkey-related topics. Please visit the the participants page if you would like to get involved. Happy editing! Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale. Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. edit · history · watch · refresh To-do list for Akdamar Island: No to-do list assigned; you can help us in improving the articles in the same category WikiProject Armenia (Rated Start-Class) Armenia Portal Akdamar Island is within the scope of WikiProject Armenia, an attempt to better improve and organize information in articles related or pertaining to Armenia and Armenians. If you would like to contribute or collaborate, you could edit the article attached to this page or visit the project page for further information. Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the Project's quality scale. WikiProject Oriental Orthodoxy (Rated Start-Class) This page is within the scope of WikiProject Oriental Orthodoxy, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles on the Oriental Orthodox Church on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the Project's quality scale. (If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)

It is requested that a map or maps be included in this article to improve its quality. Wikipedians in Turkey may be able to help!

Contents 1 Comments 1.1 Comment 1.2 References & Footnotes 1.3 New article for the church? 1.4 Possible Latin origins of the name Աղթամար (Altamar) 1.5 Interwiki

[edit] Comments

[edit] Comment

(Note by Andrys: Correction: "Kung Gagik" should be "King Gagik" and I've corrected that on my source page, thanks.)

Thanks, Andrys. Please open up a Wikipedia account & start contributing with your wonderful images! :) mu5ti/✏ 19:27, Feb 20, 2005 (UTC)

never mind..! --Mightier than the sword 09:20, 12 April 2006 (UTC), --Mightier than the sword 20:00, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References & Footnotes

I have removed the footnote references for Hewsen, Robert H. (2001). Armenia: a historical atlas. The work is a tertiary source and all the information about Aghtamar contained within it are already contained in the works cited in the references section. I don't think any of the points that had the those Hewson citations needed citations anyway, since none were contentious. Meowy 02:17, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

It's always nice to have references for facts. I still don't see why you've removed the references. I can imagine some people disputing the fate of the Armenian monks on the island during the Armenian Genocide, as well as people (e.g. the Turkish government, or others working for them) disputing that there was an Armenian catholicos there upto 1915. Serouj 06:36, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

But you don't need references for facts that are undisputed. It just breaks up the flow of the page and (in a way) it suggests that undisputed facts are actually in dispute. I can see a point in having a reference for the 1915 event (so I should not have removed that reference), but better maybe to use a primary source (such as Nogales, who was an eyewitness) rather then a tertiary source like Hewsen Meowy 17:38, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New article for the church?

It might be a good idea to have a new article for the church since it has been restored and that there are quite a few sources in the Internet about it + pictures already.. If there is one already, take no notice, maybe I just missed it.. Baristarim 23:31, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I would wait until the actual re-opening. Meowy 00:34, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

No worries, I was just throwing it out there :) Baristarim 00:40, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Btw, about the Kurdish pronounciation of the island's name - I have been to Van and can say that most of the local population still pronounce it the original way. That is not a source of course! But I imagine that there must be language websites out there that would indicate that there is no "gh" in modern Turkish, but that there is in Kurdish. Meowy 14:55, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I updated the intro and removed the fact tag for the moment - however I don't know if anyone else will ask for sources. Baristarim 23:01, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

By the way, on follow-up to my note from a week earlier above, there was an article created today at Akdamar church - it included only one paragraph taken from this article, and no improvements on it whatsoever. I went ahead and was bold and redirected here. I thought that there would be no problems since I aired a similar proposal for a new article before. It still stands obviously, but I think we might take another look at it since it is not clear how we will seperate content between articles since the island is only notable because of the church. Obviously, if anyone wants to write a new and longer article for the church, go ahead. Just wanted to note the merge for the record.. Baristarim 22:51, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Possible Latin origins of the name Աղթամար (Altamar)

Many people don't know this, but the letter <ղ> in Classical Armenian stands for a letter similar to the Latin <l>.

Hence, in Classical Armenian, Աղթամար was pronounced like Altamar or Althamar. In breaking Altamar to its Latin roots, we get "Alta"+"Mare" or "above sea" or "high (altitude) sea."

In conclusion, Աղթամար may really be the Classical Armenian spelling (or approximation) for the Latin "alta mare", meaning "above sea" island or "high altitude sea" island.

(this is just a thought, though...) Serouj 07:11, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Actualy the most probable origin of the name of the island may come from Indo-European ancestry, being formed by *alt- ("salt", Armenian aght- or agh-) and *maar ("see", Russian "море", the Armenian analogue of this word is մոր "swamp" as in Մեծամոր "Great swamp")

Vazgen Ghazaryan 15:02, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Interwiki

sv:Akdamar —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.96.137.18 (talk) 17:15, 31 December 2007 (UTC)