Talk:Aisin Gioro
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In my browser, many mongolian characters display as blanks. It seems that the corresponding HTML entities are not Unicode but some other national code (Windows?). E.g. in "ài xīn jǘe lúo" the "ī" (ī) comes out as blank. Jorge Stolfi 17:01, 19 Mar 2004 (UTC)
It's because your browser doesn't recognize these characters or simply you don't have a font that covers them. They are Unicode characters and they are Chinese Pinyin, not Mongolian characters! --Nanshu 01:35, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Oops, that seems to be it. I am using an old version of Mozilla that apparently has trouble with the Pinyin segment, even though it handles Han.) Thanks. Jorge Stolfi 12:31, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Contents |
[edit] The Veritable Records
What were The Veritable Records referred to? -- Kaihsu 20:19, 2004 Sep 5 (UTC)
manju-i yargiyan kooli/滿洲實錄. Maybe "Manchu Veritable Records" is better. --Nanshu 03:58, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Aisin Jiaoluo?
Hardouin, I've never cared about Chinese transcription of purely Manchu terms, but you add it. So I let you know an interesting note I found.
Quote from A dictionary of Manchu names : a name-index to the Manchu version of the "Complete genealogies of the Manchu clans and families of the Eight Banners", p.IX:
- we may add, as a curiosity, that the Chinese transcription jue of the character 覺 is wrong: in Manchu the syllable jue is transcribed as giowei~jiyowei and, more rarely, as goi. Only the pronunciation "jiao" is transcribed as gio; therefore, the correct transcription is "Aixin Jiaoluo" and not "Aixin Jueluo."
How do you see this? --Nanshu 07:02, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- Well, as a matter of fact, the Chinese character 覺 can be pronounced either jue or jiao, but jue is by far the most common pronunciation, and the pronunciation jiao is found only in the word "to sleep" (睡觉) and all the derivatives of that verb. When we write the Manchu name, we should clearly spell it as close as possible from Manchu pronunciation. But when we write the Chinese version of the name, we should reflect how Chinese people would pronounce it. What I know, is that 99.9% of 1.3 billion Chinese people, when they will read the clan name 愛新覺羅, they will pronounce it Aixin Jueluo in putonghua, because that's just the first pronunciation that will come to their mind, irrelevant whether it is close or not from the way the Manchu actually pronounced it, as much as when we pronounce the word Chicago, we pronounce it Chicago, irrelevant how the native indian tribes actually pronounced it (they would have pronounced something like "Sheekagoo", for the records). Hardouin 12:32, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Thanks. I confined the addition to a note. --Nanshu
[edit] Meaning of Aixin Jueluo
Aixin does mean gold, but not literally. Manchus are descendants of Jin(gold) Clan, so it really means the clan rather than gold.
Jueluo means surname(in Chinese Xingshi) or family(in Chinese Jiazhu). So it means Jin surname or Jin family.
My apologies as I could not cite the book that I came acrossed. I will check it out in the library again.
Marky
The word aisin does mean gold in Manchu. And gioro does not mean surname but is a surname. In fact, Gioro was a major Manchu clan name.
This common misunderstanding has its roots in Chinese descriptions of the clan. For example, the Chinese edition of the Veritable Record of Taizu Wu Huangdi (the oldest known version of the Veritable Record of Qing Taizu) says:
- 愛新華言金也，覺落姓也．
We can hardly judge from these simple notes whether these words are concepts or their instances. --Nanshu 23:17, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Aisin Gioro...
The word aisin means gold in the Manchu language, and "gioro" means clan in the Manchu language. The word aisin means gold in the Manchu language, but the meaning of gioro is unknown, probably surname.
Conflict? Ytlow 16:07, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Clan sounds more likely... "Gold clan" makes sense... "Gold surname" is a bit odd... I expect what has happened is that this Manchu word for clan was subsequently also used for surnames and someone's got confused? Furius 02:31, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
No. No. Again, Gioro is a Manchu clan name of unknown etymology. In other words, Gioro is not a word that means "surname" in Manchu but is an instance of surname. Gioro was a major clan name among Manchus and that's probably why the term aisin (gold) was appended. The imperial family members were distinguished by aisin from the rest of people with the clan name Gioro. --Nanshu 22:27, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Add a new person
I think there should be another person in one of the heirs and descendants of the Aisin Gioro family: Ai Xin Jue Luo YuHuan, he's an artist who died on June 23, 2003, He was the great-great grandson of the Daoguang Emperor, that means the nephew of the last Emperor Puyi. Just thought you'd like to know. Eisenhower 21:55, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
