Talk:Against Me!

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What's so historical about The Distillers?

Or the Hives for that matter. On that note, wtf, this article has some POV problems. "not-so-punk acts like Mandy Moore and Spongebob Squarepants"? That's merely the biggest one. wilhelm 22:28, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 Selling Out Bullshit 2 College Apartment Complex? 3 Dirty Deitrich AM! Electro Dance Hits 4 Sarcasm? 5 New Live CD 6 Vanessa? Who is Vanessa? 7 The Adversaries 8 FOLK PUNK??? 9 Anarkopunk? 10 Clever song titles? 11 Type Of Music 12 Tom Serick (spelling?) - Manager 13 Why Freegan 14 Tom Gabel wiki?

[edit] Selling Out Bullshit

Whats with all the talk of 'best work' about all the early albums and then the talk of selling out. It's not written in a generic style - it's all very subjective and without any references. Sounds like someone with a grudge. Fuck-off Hipsters. -- ben

• Find sources that say Reinventing Axl Rose isn't their best work, and that signing to Sire didn't represent selling out, and then you can put them in the article yourself. Everything stated in the article is backed up by legit sources. Nowah Balloon (talk) 05:34, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

The point of wikipedia is to represent a neutral point of view. It is clearly not universially known that Reinventing Axel Rose represents the band’s best work, music is subjective after all. Furthermore, wikipedia is not a place to discuss whether or not a band has "sold out". My own irrelevant opinion on the matter is that anyone who actually cares what label a band is signed to, needs to stop, and reevaluate their priorities. As well, it's quite clear that "everything stated in the articles" is NOT backed up by "legit sources", as there are only 3 sources, one of which only concerns the bands genre, the other the coffee house incident, the third only discusses the fan base’s reaction to the release of New Wave. Jacknife737 (talk) 07:20, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

I'd have to agree with Jackknife. He shouldn't have to fine a source saying that it's not their best work, especially if there's no source for it being their best work. I don't even listen to this band but that caught my attention. It's definitely POV, and without a very clear source there's no way it should be in there.Tithonfury (talk) 21:05, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] College Apartment Complex?

I don't think that Against Me! as Tom Gabel's solo work started in college apartment complexes. My understanding is that he started it while still in Naples (a number of my friends recall seeing him playing outside of shows, and sometimes seeing them with Tom and various people on buckets)

I doubt that this statement in the article is true and should be changed or cited, because if it's false, it obviously doesn't belong in the article. KurtFF8 05:20, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

While it is true that Against Me! started in Naples, I was at the laundromat show, which was at College Manor Apartments in Gainesville on a Thursday night in fall 2000.

I, too, was at that show at College Manor Apartments in late 2000. AM! played with David Dondero, Sexual Chocolate, and the show was organized by Mikey Hot Sauce of Hot Sauce Records who lived in the complex at the time. Unfortunately, I don't have the flyer anymore. Mcas (talk) 05:49, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Dirty Deitrich AM! Electro Dance Hits

Going to take that link from the External links... it's just weird and irrevelant in my opinion. QzarBaron 21:10, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sarcasm?

I've seen people say here and on the WTO Ministerial Conference of 1999 protest activity page say that "Baby I'm an Anarchist" is tounge-in-cheek or sarcastic. Is there any evidence of that? I thought it was serious, a bit funny, but serious. So do at least two of my friends? Perhaps my being an anarchist biases me into actually thinking it's serious, but yeah...The Ungovernable Force 04:08, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm sure it's possible that there are some tounge-in-cheek aspects to it, but Tom Gable (who I assume wrote the lyrics) has said before that he is (or at least was) an anarchist, so I'm assuming that the message of the song, while being portrayed as tounge-in-cheek, could also be serious at the same time. KurtFF8 18:40, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

He's obviously not an anarchist anymore, since he deals with those fucking bastards on MTV and FUSE-FionMacCumhail 07:20, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

regardless, that wouldn't make the song toungue-in-cheek, it would jsut make it hypocritical. toungue-in-cheek means to me that Gable disagrees with anarchism, which I would doubt.. I'm gonna change it. someone else can confirm later, if they want. --naught101 10:43, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

lol, yeah, sell-outs, I know. It's always annoying to see a good band go the way of commercialization. Alas, we lose another one to the dark side. Anti-flag really upset me too with all their punkvoter drivel (actually, punkvoter made me upset with a lot of bands), not to mention signing to a major label, sounding worse and becoming supposed pacifists (they had the song "kill the rich" and now they have a song called "Power to the Peacefull"). Somebody shoot me please! The Ungovernable Force 07:42, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Antiflag was never anarchist though. They said they were anarchist in their music but real people who have actually talked to them have said they were pretty reformist. One of them in the band was a Leninist though. Leninism is almost bad as capitalism so I think its better that they sell out anyways lol. Good band though

-FionMacCumhail 03:41, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

If he didn't mean everything he sang in the song, then maybe it could be tongue-in-cheek - for example, the bit about smashing the Starbucks window strikes me as sending up anarchists a little... Also, I think Leninism is far worse than capitalism - it's nothing more than repressive state-capitalism. At least capitalism has some freedom... Supersheep 11:42, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Maybe he was saying something along the lines of [this], which is a criticism of the black bloc actions at Seattle. Just a thought, we'll need someone who knows more about the band to help out. Supersheep 11:59, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, people on songmeanings.net are pretty divided. [1] I think until they say whether is was sarcastic or not, we won't really know. I think people just interpret it the way they want to, because it can be twisted either way. It seems obviously pro-anarchist to me, but that's very likely just because I'm an anarchist. Oh well. Ungovernable Force^{The Wiki Kitchen!} 06:14, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

It seems mocking to me, and I'm anarchist too - obviously Against Me are from the peaceful end of the anarchist spectrum, or didn't think that a violent response to police brutality was appropriate... Supersheep 15:42, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I already changed it, but I'm having second thoughts... perhaps the best description would be "hyperbolic" - that way, regardless of whether it's toungue in cheek or not, people will realise it's not to be taken too literally.. --naught101 09:01, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Although I'd agree with your interpretation of hyperbolic, I think that unless the band made/makes some kind of statement about their intent, then we shouldn't speculate since it's really contensious and not incredibly obvious. Ungovernable Force^{The Wiki Kitchen!} 22:58, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

I think it's kind of shallow to think that just because a band signed to a major label it makes them any less of an anarchist than they were before. I've talked to Gabel because he happens to be my first cousin, on a regular basis. And his views on having a band are pretty simple in that, not everyone in the band is an anarchist, so he never really viewed Against Me! as an anarchist band. And I think a lot of people lose sight of that. Sure, Gabel wrote some anarchist songs on their early recordings, but you must remember, that was a totally different situation in which it was just controlled by him and one other member who probably agreed with him fully. Tom still claims to be an anarchist, but is also a very lucid anarchist. He's very realistic, and keeps things in perspective. I think to call a band to sell out would say that they have abandoned their former ideals, and honestly, Against Me! as a four-piece band never really stated all-out that they are an anarchist band. However, "Baby, I'm an Anarchist!" does sound like a tounge-in-cheek ballad. I don't think it's saying that anarchist beliefs are moronic, however. I think it's just pointing out the difference between liberals and far-leftists and anarchists, and how they are ironically commonly associated. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.236.57.67 (talk) 04:57, 8 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] New Live CD

Against Me! will be releasing a live CD entitled "Americans Abroad!!! Against Me!!! Live in London!!!" This is the bands "goodbye" album to fat wreck chords so to speak. It will feature a new song called "Americans Abroad."

[edit] Vanessa? Who is Vanessa?

Who's this Vanessa character? I'm not saying she doesn't exist but whereas all the "Associates" are well established as working for the band (see the We're Not Going Home DVD), I've never seen mention of her before. Perhaps an interview link or something would be helpful.--AgainstSteve 17:24, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

    She could be the female voice in the song "Baby, I'm an Anarchist." If she isn't... Who is?

I know it's quite late, but the female Anarchist vocalist is Cassidy Rist from one of Tom's former bands. She also co-wrote the song. Nowah Balloon 07:02, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Adversaries

Anyone else remember Tom's old Naples band Adversaries? Smart Mark Greene 00:59, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] FOLK PUNK???

okay i love Against Me but what dummy has the nearve to call them folk punk? I mean come on!! folk and punk as a combined genera? thats almost as smart as miltary intelgence. Against me kicks ass but i demand a rethinking of the critics. _peace_love_unity_ CHECK OUT ANTI-FLAG IF YOU LIKE AM! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Razor romance (talk • contribs).

^^you are stupid.^^ ^^ ^^

First off, calm down. Second, folk punk is an established genre. There are many bands that play a mix of folk and punk (This Bike Is A Pipe Bomb and Defiance, Ohio to name just two). At the same time, Against Me! has been moving away from the folk side of folk punk as they progress (along with their ideals it seems like). Ungovernable Force^{The Wiki Kitchen!} 23:11, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

punk=ethic, folk=style. 's like eco-friendly modernist architecture. they aren't in any way exclusive. 'nuff said. --naught101 05:28, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Whoever was bringing up the issue of Against Me! not being a "folk punk band"... look up on the bands MySpace, they classify themselves as a "folk punk" band. Wow.

yeah duh, the myspace will tell you that they're totally folk.

lol

I think the point of the myspace comment was that they even classify themselves as folk punk. KurtFF8 20:54, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, their earlier stuff (Crime as Forgiven By, Vivida Vis!, etc) are more folk-punk-ish than their later music, but I'd definitely say they did play folk-punk, but their music just evolved. No reason not to leave it on there.Artiste-extraordinaire 23:58, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

You know a band sucks with you got Anti-flag fans telling you shit about it. God I love WIKI! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.157.2.122 (talk) 03:15, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

^^^^^^ Agreed —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.157.45.250 (talk) 04:31, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Anarkopunk?

i don't consider this band as an anarkopunk band. Is it ok to remove it from that category? thanks for your input. Cacuija (my talk) 03:00, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, unlike the edit I just congratulated you for, I'm not quite so sure about this one. They used to say they were anarchists, didn't they? I don't listen to them much though, so I'm not the expert on this band. I'd say keep it in, but just weakly. Ungovernable Force^{Got something to say?} 05:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm not an expert myself.. but they could say they are anarchists (at an personal level), but .. can a band who signed for Fat Wreckords and tours with NoFX be considered anarcopunk. They have more relations with other comercial punk bands than with anarkopunk bands.. i don't think they are anarkopunk at all. IMHO the just happen to play a style of music which can be considered "punk rock", rock, folk-punk (you name it) and they call themselves anarchists. That doesn't put you in the anarkopunk category. The bottom line is, besides what they say they are and their music style, what facts make them "anarkopunk"? Tell me what you think. Cacuija (my talk) 15:21, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

First, isn't it anarcho-punk? As for the stuff on record labels, Propagandhi is on Fat Wreckords too, but I've never seen anyone try to say they aren't anarchists because of that. It seems a little improper to say a band isn't anarcho-punk just because of that. Ungovernable Force^{Got something to say?} 19:55, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

You might be right about the record label and i don't know propagahndi, but you still don't answer my last question. Cacuija (my talk) 22:41, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh, sorry about missing that part--I had 5 minutes till class started so only had a minute or two. I'd say any band that is made up of anarchists, blends that into their lyrics and plays punk music of some kind. For myself personally, they should also be active in political/social movements related to anarchism and should be trying to live consistently with their beliefs, but that's my own personal view and I don't think it's a good measure of whether a band should be included or not in an encyclopedia. Case in point--well, this one. I might have considered them anarcho-punk earlier on, but they do seem to be really selling out in my opinion. I wouldn't really consider them that great an example of an anarcho-punk band, but they do probably meet the basic definition for on here. Ungovernable Force^{Got something to say?} 04:01, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

By definition (note that i don't like "book" definitions) from Anarcho-punk: "Anarcho-punk is a part of the punk movement consisting of groups, bands and individuals promoting specifically anarchist ideas.". note the "promoting". Can you tell me how this band promotes anarchism?, again, at an individual level their members may consider themselves anything, at a group level.. i don't think we can consider this band anarcho-punk. Still my question remains unanswered "besides what they say they are and their music style, what facts make them 'anarkopunk'?". thanks for your feedback, - Cacuija (my talk) 04:40, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

"Besides what they say and their musical style"? Why leave out the two most imporatant aspects that define an anarcho-punk band? They even have a song that mentions Anarcho-punk. I fail to see how they are not anarcho-punk. Just because they are now on a major label doesn't take away what they stand for (or even if they no longer stand for that, the majority of their music and message does) KurtFF8 20:56, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

You still don't answer my question. So, based on your point of view, shall we place The Sex Pistols in this category? Cacuija (my talk) 03:03, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

No, The Sex Pistols have a different musical style, and don't really hold anarchist views (to my knowledge) and those are the two things that distinguish a band as "anarcho-punk" from what I understand that genre to be. KurtFF8 04:42, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Musical style has nothing to do with anarco-punk.. You just have to play punk, or something like that and even if you play other music style, and you want to consider yourself anarcho-punk, i think it's perfectly fine. it is the attitude, For instance Catharsis is hardoce-metal IMO, they are anarcho-punks. The point is. Against me! as well as The Sex Pistols play "punk" music, and they might say they are anarchists or have songs about "revolution" and bla blah's. that doesn't make them anarkopunk. So in my opinion your "musical style" point is not valid, and your "don't really hold anarchist views" apply for boths. Please, someone show something that verifies that Against me! say they consider anarco-punks... something else than just a few (if only one) members say "we are anarchist" more at an intelectual level. Otherwise, i will be removing them from Category:Anarcho-punk Category until someone provides a valid source. Thanks, --Cacuija (my talk) 16:23, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

On another note, can we agree that they are actually a punk rock band? I've changed the intro paragraph to mention that. Artiste-extraordinaire 23:58, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

After listening to the new album "folk punk" is a bit of a misnomer. I could accept that up to the point of "Searching or a Former Clarity" but with that album and "New Wave" it's pretty clear that it's much more indie and/or alternative than punk at all.

Yeah chill out there like punk rock with a twist. Cause punk rock is usually 3 chords and Against me isnt like that —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.162.244.231 (talk) 00:45, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Clever song titles?

Seems like a pretty biased thing to say. If anything they're embarassing to say out loud.

[edit] Type Of Music

The "Type of Music" section is fairly subjective, and written very strangely. Also, I think the author of that section was confusing "soft rock" with "folk rock". I'd say that bit either needs to be wiped out, or cleaned up (ie. citing the comparison to Bob Dylan). Jeridus 21:11, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, good call on wiping that bit out. I just managed to catch it before it was deleted, and it really wasn't written very well. I couldn't quite tell if he knew what he was talking about or not, but he made a good call on that bit about "Wagon Wheel" sounding like Dylan. The best I can figure it is this; the version that Against Me! does (from PROTECT: A Benefit for the National Association to Protect Children CD - 2005) is pretty much as it's performed originally by the Old Crow Medicine Show (from S/T CD - 2004), but even they only added some lyrics to an old Dylan song called "Rock Me Mamma" (from Genuine Bootleg Series CD - 1994 - Originally recorded in 1973). Personally, I completely prefer the AM! version over the OCMS version, but the original Dylan song is even better.

Anyways, that's just a random bit of information in case anyone was curious. Maybe the writer will be surprised if he reads this, who knows? (Callthekettleblack 05:37, 9 March 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Tom Serick (spelling?) - Manager

Does anyone know if that's the correct spelling of that guy's name? I'm not seeing any reference to a Tom Serick in relation to Against Me!...other than a link to this article. --adamh 11:52, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why Freegan

On the "Freegan" article, it says the drummer wrote a pamphlet in 1999 advocating freeganism as an appropriate lifestyle. It certainly goes to the politics of the band, and so I figured it could be included somewhere in the article. Whatcha think?72.78.179.244 (talk) 22:21, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Tom Gabel wiki?

I'm a little shocked that Tom Gabel doesn't have his own article. With all of the interviews available, the arrest, and marrying Heather Hannoura, one would think that it would be fairly easy to do (and interesting to read). Somebody should get bored and make one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.21.184.251 (talk) 05:05, 1 April 2008 (UTC)