Talk:Abram Hoffer

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This article was nominated for deletion on 25 September 2007. The result of the discussion was Nomination withdrawn.

I've removed the claim that Hoffer "pioneered the use of double blind randomized, controlled tests (RCT) in medicine" as other sources disagree with this statement ("the modern era of randomized controlled trials (RCTs) began in the late 1940s with the pioneering work of Bradford Hill" JAMA. 1998 Jan 28;279(4):319-20.). MarcoTolo 21:58, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Generally speaking, this entry needs significant improvement across the board. Fact checking, atribution, wikification, sentences that are more than eight words long - you name it. MarcoTolo 21:58, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sign, sign... breaking my mind...

I thought you did a pretty good job on the general edit, made it more readable and concise. I do feel that the sign and the "pioneered dbRCT" objection are a little trigger happy.

Re dbRCT pioneers, both could have legitimate claims of various flavors of "first". RCT is a less stringent claim than dbRCT. This paper,[1], shows a first Lancet dbRCT article in 1955. I think Altschul, Hoffer, Stephen first presented their paper in 1954, published 1955. Probably both claims would need careful specific language as "firsts" and probably will suffer the same hijinks as patent priority: i.e. dates of tests - start & finish, vs date of first public presentation vs date of nat'l journal publication; PhD ("science") vs MD ("medicine"); Europe vs North America etc. As the paper also mentions earlier RCT-like "experiments" occurred, so it would seem likely a "specification(s) battle" to be first. I merely used "pioneered", not "first" since that has so much baggage. (In 19th century US, there were many pioneers, lots had arrow shirts ;) Hoffer's status as a dbRCT pioneer is somewhat important since many "mainstream" character assassins love to imply that orthomed doesn't understand what a dbRCT is whereas critical and knowledgeable orthomeds (ie. seasoned MD+PhD) probably tire of hearing pedagogical catechisms from less experienced quarters. (I've covered this a little elsewhere)

The books and links actually do reasonably cover the article so I think you need to discuss your questions very specifically. With some additional reading, you may find your questions answered. Also others have criticized (on similar articles) more specific refs and links, as too numerous or POV pushing. I am going to include more general Hoffer biblio links, but I won't be surprised if this only stirs the pot with some others. As for wikification, etc any improvements are welcome. If you have specific problems or stmts, let's see them.

Okay, I can see your point about the "disputed" tag - I suppose I tend to be touchy when the references for any article link to a single site with a clear pro or con viewpoint. On the other hand, this can also be the result of a nascent article that hasn't aged yet. Conceeding that "disputed" may be overkill at this point, I'll amend it to a "research in process" tag for the time being while the article is maturing. MarcoTolo 23:57, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Personal account removed

I've removed this insertion made by IP 24.108.199.11 with the edit summary "The comment are factual as the result of my meetings with Dr. Hoffer in Victoria. This may be varied by Fran or Dr. Hoffer" from the article for discussion. [2] The text was incorrectly placed inside ref tags, although it doesn't verify the statements it was sourcing. And, edits to Wikipedia must be attributable to reliable sources and cannot be original research. The statements may be accurate, but must be sourced to something other than a personal account. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:44, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

NOTE: Dr. Hoffer does NOT use the term megavitamins. More accurately, when he consults with his patients, he will recommend "Opti-Doses"...Optimum doses. The reason is clear. He prescribes the amount of vitamins based on a patients needs based on his/or hers individual clinical picture.

This may be varified by Dr. Abram Hoffer, of Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:44, 10 April 2007 (UTC)