Talk:€2 commemorative coins

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2008 April 29

Contents 1 Talk page archived 2 Page Contents 3 Left and right 4 Release date of commemorative Italy €2 2008 & San Marino €2 2008 5 Forum 6 France

[edit] Talk page archived

... I hope this helps to read the new talk topics. Miguel.mateo (talk) 04:29, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Page Contents

I suggest that instead of continuing listing all the commemorative coins in one page instead they should be sorted by years in a table then the user choose the year and the commemorative coins of that year will be shown. Like this the page is becoming extensively long.--Melitikus (talk) 10:26, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Melitikus, do you see the index at the beginning of the article? Because that does exactly what you are suggesting. Miguel.mateo (talk) 23:42, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Precisely. —Nightstallion 16:13, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Left and right

The following explanation is given in both a note and a footnote:

Note: In heraldry, directions are often described as they would appear to the bearer of a coat of arms, rather than as they would appear to the viewer. Therefore, the following descriptions will use "facing to the left" when it would appear to the layman that the person depicted is facing to the right.

I know that this is true in heraldry. If you consider the historic use of arms, it makes some kind of sense to have this convention about left and right interpreted from the bearer's point of view when talking about coats of arms.

I did not know that the same convention is used in numismatics. Here on this Wikipedia article is the first time I have seen the heraldic convention applied to coins. There has never been a use where coins have a bearer, this convention makes no sense when describing coins.

Furthermore, the official descriptions in the Official Journal of the European Communities/Union do not follow this convention.

For example: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/site/en/oj/2007/c_302/c_30220071214en00070007.pdf (there are many more examples)

The coin's inner section shows an effigy of His Majesty Albert II, King of the Belgians, in profile facing to the left. To the right of this, the royal monogram is displayed and, below it, the indication of the country ‘BE’. Underneath the effigy, the signature mark of the Master of the Mint is displayed on the left and the mint mark on the right, either side of the year. The outer ring of the coin depicts the twelve stars of the European flag.

In this description, left and right are clearly the viewer's left and right, not heraldic left and right.

Unless someone can prove the heraldic convention is actually used regularly in numismatics (which I doubt), left and right should be used from the viewer's point of view (and the note and footnote dropped).

— Adhemar (talk) 09:44, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Additional note

Other Wikipedia articles also do not follow the heraldic left/right convention. For example (there are many more examples): Australian 1 dollar coin: Inscription of AUSTRALIA on the right hand side and ELIZABETH II on the left hand side. In this description, left hand side and right hand side are clearly the viewer's left and right, not heraldic left and right.

— Adhemar (talk) 12:39, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Consider Belgium's first series and Albert II. When we look at this coin, the portrait is looking to the left. However, we are seeing the left side of his face, which means he is facing right (he is also looking to the right and we are seeing his left profile). Another way to think about this is when we look at someone who is looking at us. When we ask them to raise their right hand, from our point of view, their left hand moves. When we stand behind someone and ask the same question, from our point of view, their right hand moves. The same is true of coins. If you hold the coin so that you are behind it, the effigy is clearly facing right. The standards of heraldic terminology are used in the design and production process. However, Adhemar makes a good point that the reference materials do refer to descriptions from the viewer's POV. Cheers. The € • ^T/_C 03:49, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree it can make sense when you are talking about the left and the right side of the depicted subject (especially if it is a person). But my fundamental remark is not really about whether the convention makes sense, it is about whether the convention is actually used.

Consider the description of the Portugal coin at http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/site/en/oj/2007/c_110/c_11020070516en00050005.pdf

The inner part of the coin shows a cork oak (Quercus Suber). Under the branches, on the left hand side, the Portuguese coat of arms; on the right hand side, the word ‘POR TU GAL’ written on three lines.

Here, left hand side and right hand side refer to the left and the right of the coin according to the viewer, not the tree's left and right side.

My comment here can be considered a form of [citation needed]. I do not dispute that the non-viewer convention is used in heraldry (I have seen it often enough). I want a reliable authoritative citation that in the heraldic convention is used in numismatics (describing coins) as well.

— Adhemar (talk) 10:55, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Yet another example of the non-use of the heraldic convention: The American Numismatic Society uses the viewer's point of view for the words left and right. For example (there are many more examples): http://www.numismatics.org/exhibits/featured/nerofood.html Obverse: Head laureate right. IMP NERO CAES AUG P MAX TR P P P. Reverse: Annona facing right standing at left holding cornucopiae, Ceres facing left seated at right holding grain stalks; between them a table with modius on top; behind, ship's prow. ANNONA] AUGUSTI [CERES.

— Adhemar (talk) 18:40, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Release date of commemorative Italy €2 2008 & San Marino €2 2008

On the article the release date for the Italian commemorative €2 coin is April, This has also been said to be the release date of the San Marino €2 2008. Are you sure this is correct? The Royal Scandinavian Mint have said that the release date for Italy is October & for San Marino its May. Also the AASFN Philatelic & Numismatic Official Website Appears to back up the San Marino claim as the coin will not be on sale until 20th May. I have not seen either the San Marino or the Italian commemorative €2 on sale,If the current release date of April is true it should be available.Kevin hipwell (talk) 00:11, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

There are essentially two dates for most 2 euro commemoratives and, I believe, most commemoratives in general... an FDI, which is the First Date of Issue and an FDC, which is the First Date of Circulation. While these coins may not yet be on sale and not yet available for the general public to purchase them, they have already been issued. Typically, the FDI is determined by the ECB, but the FDC is determined by the individual national banks. The long and short of the matter is this: unless otherwise specified, the dates published in the Official Journal of the EU (which is almost always the FDI) are used in this article. What would the EU be, after all, without their precious red-tape? Cheers. The € • ^T/_C 06:39, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Thats very interesting I think it would be a good idea to mention this in the article, what do you think?Kevin hipwell (talk) 13:55, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

It's already mentioned in the notes, but not in detail- the detail isn't suited for this article, but if it goes elsewhere in the euro pages, it can be referenced here. Cheers. The € • ^T/_C 14:37, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

The San Marino 2 euro Comm Coin was issued on the 20th May, according to http://www.aasfn.sm/english/english.htm --Melitikus (talk) 18:29, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Please refer to my comments above. The coin *has* been issued. It has not yet been released. There is a difference. Cheers. The € • ^T/_C 03:00, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Forum

I added a link to a euro related forum, this forum is not commercial and the sole intention is to gather all the euro collectors in one place – is that okey?--Melitikus (talk) 07:46, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Nope, sorry -- AFAIK, we only link to forums in very exceptional cases. —Nightstallion 15:31, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] France

seems this is going to be the French Comm Coin for this year http://www.zwei-euro.com/2-euro/frankreich/2008/gedenkmuenze.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by Melitikus (talk • contribs) 20:03, 6 June 2008 (UTC)