User talk:Xosere

Wikipediya ra, ensiklopediya hosere

Arşiv
Arşiv 1 - Çele/Kanuno peyên, 2008

Tedeestey 1 Tabloê "Xêr Amey" 2 Square brackets 3 Some country names 3.1 Spain 3.2 Swiss 3.3 Swede 3.4 Scot 4 Revision / Çım ra viyarnayış 5 Deletion logs 6 Biological Taxonomy/Ciakerdiso(Abırnaiso) Biyolocik 7 Anatolia and Iran 8 Xêr Amey Box 9 Mrv Xoser bra 10 Newroj ti re xeyr bo 11 Bureaucrat access 12 Mail 13 Infinitives end with -ene 14 i changed ki to zi and nus to nush 15 a question, what is "to can" in your dialect 16 Vurnayışê boti 17 "nas" for "tanimak" is not arabic 18 welcome text 19 more examples 20 thank you brader 21 xo vs. ho, hewte vs. hefte 22 labele, a word which nobody can understand 23 the logo 24 i created the logo 25 Help 26 Bureaucrate and bots 27 Pela Seri 28 Monthly meetings

[bıvurne] Tabloê "Xêr Amey"

Note: Bra Xosere, when new users join to the Zazakipedia, writing the table below to their message pages, is a good way to encourage them... --Belekvor 17:48, 23 Marte | Adare 2008 (UTC)

[bıvurne] Square brackets

Bıra, I used square brackets because of the abbreviation after the main explaination and moreover because I wrote them in round brackets. Do you have another idea? --Mirzali 19:00, 5 Gucige | Sıbat 2008 (UTC)

[bıvurne] Some country names

Hi bıra,

I think, it's not badly off to use an İ- in front of some country names. This usage is possibly from Turkish, but never mind. Because Turkish has at present an influence on Zazaki predominantly. Therefore we shouldn't build new names to spite Turkish, like our Kurdish friends do that. This will be just artificially.

But as everybody knows, Turkish borrowed many things from foreign languages and filled so its deficiencies with them. Even many words, which are mostly from Persian or Arabic in origin, and entered throughout Zazaki or Kurdish into Turkish more or less. Furthermore, for some words in Turkish dictionaries is a term as halkağzı "dialect" used, in order to not mention the Zazaish or Kurdish originality.

The surrounding languages like Turkish, Kurdish, Armenian, Azerbaijani, Persian and Arabic are more important than the others, territorially in favour of research and comparison for Zazaki. But Latin and Greek are also important for etymological reasons.

I looked into English Wikipedia and English etymology dictionary for (your meant words) Spain, Switzerland, Sweden and Scotland, and found some interesting clues.

--Mirzali 21:23, 11 Gucige | Sıbat 2008 (UTC)

[bıvurne] Spain

from Anglo-French Espayne, from Late Latin Spania, from Classical Latin Hispania. The usual Old English form was Ispania.

• Latin: Hispania
• Greek: Ισπανία (İspania)
• Spanish: España

• Arabic: إسبانيا (´Asbāniyā)
• Persian: اسپانیا (Espānyā)
• Azeribaijani: İspaniya
• Kurdisch: Spanya
• Turkish: İspanya
• Armenian: Իսպանիա (İspania)

• Zazaki: İspanya (variants: Spanya (borrowed from Kurdish, probably))

--Mirzali 21:23, 11 Gucige | Sıbat 2008 (UTC)

[bıvurne] Swiss

from Middle French Suisse, from Middle High German Suizer, from Suiz "Switzerland" (compare Switzer, archaic word for "a Swiss", and German Schweiz). Switzerland is named for Schwyz, one of its ancient cantons.

• Latin: Helvetia
• Greek: Ελβετία (Elbetia)

• Arabic: سويسرا (Swīsrā)
• Azerbaijani: İsveçrə
• Persian: سوئیس (Su’is)
• Armenian: Շվեյցարիա (Şvyeytsaria)
• Kurdisch: Swîsre
• Turkish: İsviçre

• Zazaki: İswiçre (variants: İswiçra, Swis)

--Mirzali 21:23, 11 Gucige | Sıbat 2008 (UTC)

[bıvurne] Swede

from Low German, from Middle Low German Swede, back-formed from a source akin to Old English Sweoðeod, literally "Swede-people", from Sweon (plural) "Swedes" OldNorwegian, Old Swedish Sviar, Classical Latin Suiones). Sweden is from Middle Dutch Sweden, probably a dative plural of Swede (earlier in English Sweden was used of the people and 'Swedeland of the country). In Old English, the country was Sweoland or Sweorice (compare Old Norwegian sviariki, source of Swedish Sverige). The present English form of the country name emerged in Scottish (Swethin', 'Swadne, etc.). Swedish is recorded from 1632.

• Latin: Suecia
• Greek: Σουηδία (Souidia)

• Arabic: السويد (El-Swid)
• Azerbaijani: İsveç
• Persian: سوئد (Su’id)
• Armenian: Շվեդիա (Şvyedia)
• Kurdisch: Swêd
• Turkish: İsveç

• Zazaki: İsweç (variants: Swêd (borrowed from Kurdish, probably))

--Mirzali 21:23, 11 Gucige | Sıbat 2008 (UTC)

[bıvurne] Scot

Old English Scottas (plural) "inhabitants of Ireland, Irishmen", from Late Latin Scotti, of uncertain origin, perhaps from Celtic (but answering to no known tribal name; Irish Scots appears to be a Classical Latin borrowing). The name followed the Irish tribe which invaded Scotland after the Romans withdrew from Britain, and after the time of Alfred the Great the Old English word described Irish who had settled in the northwest of Britain. "Scot, with its variants Scotch, Scottish, etc., may have been an Irish term of scorn (Scuit, pronounced shite); its ulterior origin is unknown."

• Latin: Scotia
• Greek: Σκωτία (Skotia)

• Arabic: إسكتلندا (´Askutlandā)
• Azerbaijani: Şotlandiya
• Persian: اسکاتلند (Eskātland)
• Kurdisch: Skotland
• Armenian: ?
• Turkish: İskoçya

• Zazaki: İskoçya

--Mirzali 21:23, 11 Gucige | Sıbat 2008 (UTC)

Ma be xêr di albazê delali! Fıkr u emegê sıma zaf rındo. Ez vaci, bıra Mirzali heqliyo. About the i-prothesis I have to say, that this is not only sprecific to Turkish but valid for the near east. It is an areal linguistic phenomen that the known language like Persian, Arabic, Turkish and also other don't accept consonant clusters like st, sp-, sk- etc. at the anlaut (first spelled syllable), therefore there is a prothetic vocal necessary like i- to fit to is own ohonetic system. Although old indo-iranian languages had a huge of words with consonat clusters, since the islamization of the area the inheritet words get a prothetic vocal, like in "stâ-" 'stay' (in old indoiranian) to New Persian "istâdan" 'to stay' (where the country suffix -istân is also derived from).

--Asmen, 19:17, 12 Gucige 2008 (CET)

[bıvurne] Revision / Çım ra viyarnayış

Bıra Xosere, I changed the translation of revision as çım ra viyarnayış. I hope it's implying the precise meaning now. Otherwise we can also consult bıra Asmên referring to this. Greetings! --Mirzali 12:03, 8 Marte | Adare 2008 (UTC)

But only vurnayış doesn't make any sence. The meaning alone of this word (verb) is "to pass, undergo or get over" (Turkish: "geçirmek"), and would be wrong. Çım ra viyarnayış means "to scrutinize or look over" (Turkish: "gözden geçirmek). --Mirzali 07:00, 10 Marte | Adare 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, you are right bıra again. However, I think in this case "viyarnayış" would fit to there. --Mirzali 07:22, 10 Marte | Adare 2008 (UTC)

[bıvurne] Deletion logs

Hi bıra,

why did you delete the articles of Standardizekerdena Zazaki and Zonê Ma Zazaki? I want to put these in order and add them again. --Mirzali 04:46, 10 Marte | Adare 2008 (UTC)

You are right, thus it's OK now! --Mirzali 06:50, 10 Marte | Adare 2008 (UTC)

[bıvurne] Biological Taxonomy/Ciakerdiso(Abırnaiso) Biyolocik

Mabıxêrdi bra, sıma rê jü teklifê mı esto. Ma Zazaki de çıton/senên şikinime ke biyolociye de abırnais bıkerime.

İngılızki u Tırki u Kurdki de:

• Kingdom - Alem - Cîhan
• Division - Bölüm/Şube - Beş
• Class - Sınıf - Çin
• Order - Takım - Kom
• Family - Familya - Famîle
• Genus - Cins - Cins
• Species - Tür - Cure

Farski de çıton vanê ez ae nêzonen. Ez vono ke gereko Zazaki de nia bo;

• Homete (alem)
• Lızga (bölüm/şube)
• Ezbete (sınıf)
• Taxıme (takım)?
• Çê/Familya/Keye (familya)
• Cısn/Cıns (cins)
• Babet/Tewr (tür)

babeto bınên (alt tür, subspecies), çêo bınên/keyo bınên (alt familya)...

Fikrê şıma çıko/çıto..? --Belekvor 17:09, 22 Marte | Adare 2008 (UTC)

Hi bra , the word homete is used in Northern Zazaki and means alem in Turkish and Arabic. The word babet is used in Southern Zazaki (You can see it from Zazaki.de website, from Koyo Berz's dictionary) and means species (tür/çeşit in Turkish). Ezbete means a small group of a tribe (sub-tribe).. lızge/lızga means (tree) branch in English (şube/bölüm in Turkish classification), we can use it for the word division in biological classification. And all these words are original Zazaki. I think we should benefit from our original Zazaki words.

I will give an example; some words in Kurdish such as spas, rojhilat.. etc. are not conventional, but they want to create a national language so they have used those words. Similarly, bilgisayar (in Turkish) was created when computers started to being used. Now new words are started to be used in Zazaki, and we should create and improve our language by producing new Zazaki words whose original roots are in Zazaki, even they won't be conventional.--Belekvor 18:49, 22 Marte | Adare 2008 (UTC)

Sılam bırayêne, liste de yew xeta esta. Kurdki de "aile" "malbat"o, tiya rê seyr bıkerên:

http://legerin.ferheng.org/search.php?query=aile&lang=kurd2turk&Submit=L%C3%AAger%C3%AEn

Benim fikrime gelince: "aile" sözcügü icin "keye" kullanmak kocaman bir fakirlik getirir, hic bir zengin olarak sayilan dilde böyle sadelik yokdur. Insan bide hep nerde anlasin "aile" yada "ev" mi kastedildigi. Ben "aile" kelemesinin kullanmasini öneriyorum, zaten bu Arapca kökenlidir, Türkce degildir. Türkce kökenli olsaydi ben de karsi cikardim:

http://www.tdk.org.tr/TR/SozBul.aspx?F6E10F8892433CFFAAF6AA849816B2EF4376734BED947CDE&Kelime=aile

"Belokvor"un sayfasinda da dedigim gibi "çê" "ev" icin kullanilmamali, "keye" en orijinal ve hem de standard edilen varyantedir, direk Avestadan geliyor. "çê" sonradan olusmusdur.

Not: "aile" sözcügünün illah Öz Zazaca olmasini istiyorsaniz, ozaman bari Kürtlerin yaptigi gibi "ev" sözcügünün arkasina bi sonek koyun, "ev" ve "aile" sözcüklerini ayirtetmek icin. Örnek:

Kürtce: mal = "ev" demek, malbat = aile. --Dersimıc 17:33, 27 Marte | Adare 2008 (UTC)

Not 2: "Tür" kelimesi Türkce diye tabii ki "Babet" tercih edilsin, "Tür" Türkcedir:

• http://www.nisanyansozluk.com/search.asp?w=t%FCr&x=0&y=0
• http://www.tdk.org.tr/TR/SozBul.aspx?F6E10F8892433CFFAAF6AA849816B2EF4376734BED947CDE&Kelime=t%c3%bcr --Dersimıc 20:21, 28 Marte | Adare 2008 (UTC)

[bıvurne] Anatolia and Iran

Hi bıra! For aught we can remain loyal to the originality of the words so long as they come up to the reality. Therefore we can't oppose strange words (like Anatoliya) in contrary to the naturalized words (like Anadoliye). No matter, if we want or not, Turkish has the more influence on Zazaki dominantly. We shouldn't be hostile to Turkish so much and so we can't exclude it completely. Remember, we belong to the mosaic of the so called Turkish complex. Furthermore the Turkish language grew out of many foreign influences and Zazas participate in this matter importantly.

I think, it fits better the word "İran" as a name of the state and "İrano Gırd" as a name of the region. We also have go with the current science. Archaic names are not important here.

---

Bıra you know, I wanted to not annoy you. It was just an argument, which I have expressed. You actually are right in some legal points. --Mirzali 19:29, 22 Marte | Adare 2008 (UTC)

Bıraenê, sairê ma Qemero Areiz Pılemoriye ra jü lawıka xo de vano:

kibara xo ra xatır waşt, bine [biyune] tever
verê çêweri [kêberi] de gureto mı ra, Tırkonê Anadoliye

Ez vanu, Anadoliye qeseyê da zaf newiye niya, yanê Zazaki de nia vaciya. Eke sıma Anatoliya dıha mınasıb vênenê, sıma zanê. --Asmên 22.3.2008, 21:00 (CET)

It is not very important whether it is new or not that new. It is an artificial word created for nationalistic ambitions. We cannot take their artificial words. --Xosere 01:12, 23 Marte | Adare 2008 (UTC)

[bıvurne] Xêr Amey Box

Thank you so much, bıra. I will improve it, but it is OK for now..--Belekvor 16:36, 24 Marte | Adare 2008 (UTC)

[bıvurne] Mrv Xoser bra

Mrb Xoser bra, Xeyle zemono ma ju bini nê di? Seninê weşê? Emşo mı tesadüfi ju xeta di perê Wikipedia Zazaki- Tarixe Zazayan dı. Ez ewnao qı ju merdı mi ê peri dı. Propaganda Kurdo kerda. Vato ma Kurdi mi, Wealate ma Kurdistano. Mı vat ez nê xeta raşti kıri, raştıki ya cı bınusi. Mı mısade de şıma wa. Gerçi şıma ra mı izni nê growtı hemo; Perê mı; [1] dı kısme Forumdı hevê çi grewt o ca. Ez texmin keno şıma nê qaryenê. Ju na çi; edrese mıno msn verin hack bi, o sevev ra ma piya xeyle zemone qali nê kerdi. E qı warzenê se edresê mıno nıkayin msn: ozer_oz@hotmail.com ra ma piya çı weqit tı mısait benê se ma qalo/qıso bıkımı. Kef weşiya bı monı. Ombazo re sılomo keno. Qar u gırwe şıma raşt bêro.--Peropiya 00:16, 28 Marte | Adare 2008 (UTC)

[bıvurne] Newroj ti re xeyr bo

Bera Xoser, mi mosaferat bime, iraniki ziwunun şablon mevarek baboshe! ti email me ra biamey/bemue, mi adres OK heste --Parthava 14:15, 31 Marte | Adare 2008 (UTC)

[bıvurne] Bureaucrat access

Hi bra, we need a bureaucrat in our wikipedia; actually we don't have any. Can you nominate yourself for bureaucrat position for the Zazaki Wikipedia. I told the user Peropiya to be a bureaucrat, but he doesn't seem to be interested in Wikipedia at all. If you want to be a bureaucrat, you need to nominate yourself in the community portal and Wikimedia. If you have any question, feel free to ask me? Thanks.

B.S.: Here is a page containing information about the position: Bureaucrat --Xosere 21:34, 21 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

OK bıra, I can became a bureaucrat for our wikipedia..But I should say that I will be absent after 1-2 months, because I will be abroad for 2-3 months..so maybe I won't be able to watch the Zazakipedia..For now OK, I can accept this job willingly... On the other hand, my english is not advanced for doing bureaucrat request..Can you prepare this and I will make copy-past it..Thanks..--Belekvor 21:59, 21 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

Bıra, they didn't accept our request..I need votes..help please..And I added your msn. Thanks..--Belekvor 22:11, 22 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

[bıvurne] Mail

i wrote to you today two mails, to your xosere mail adress. please read them and answer. thank you. --Dersimıc 11:32, 23 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

i congratulate you to the brave step, thank you. --Dersimıc 16:45, 24 Nisane 2008 (UTC) i added now historic arguments here: http://diq.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zazakiyo_Standard#-en_.2F_-ene.2C_-eni

PS: "ish" is not the same as "en" (read my answer in the discussion page of zazakiyo standard) --Dersimıc 16:53, 24 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

sory again, i dont know that you come yesterday to msn, its were better if you wrote this with to me per mail. sorry --Dersimıc 11:02, 27 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

[bıvurne] Infinitives end with -ene

Dear bıra Xosere, the feminine output -e must be there. Please get the changes back for infinitives. Greetings! --Mirzali 17:17, 27 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

the "e" ending in feminin rectus is unnecesasry, because of such features nobody accept your standard zazaki. --Dersimıc 18:32, 27 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

[bıvurne] i changed ki to zi and nus to nush

Because, they are the most original variants:

http://diq.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Xeyr_amey#i_want_arguments_for_your_choose --Dersimıc 14:27, 28 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

i deleted now the "dê" at "sistemê dê girdio", if they again use this, then i add the central zaza system to the brackets:

http://diq.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Xeyr_amey#if_do_you_use_.22sistem.C3.AA_de_girdiyo.22.2C_then_i_put_the_central_zazaki-system

same right for all!

i transciped your request with the vate standards:

http://diq.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AXeyr_amey&diff=30778&oldid=29388

i put the "y"'s, the "sh", the "zi" as in vate standards. and i replaced "awa" from northern zazaki with "aya" from southern zazaki, because some can understand "awa" as "water is". also vate use "aya". --Dersimıc 17:16, 28 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

Thanks bro. --Xosere 20:06, 28 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

[bıvurne] a question, what is "to can" in your dialect

what say to example "ben yaza biliyorum", in northern dialect: ez şikina bınusi or ez bese kena bınusi. what is this in your dialect? thank you. --Dersimıc 17:00, 28 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

new question: what was "mountain / dağ" in your dialect? thanks --Dersimıc 17:21, 28 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

"Ez eşkeno bınuşi" and "ko or "kue" --Xosere 20:05, 28 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

can you ask your prof. what was "mast" (yoghurt) in old or middle iranian languages? because its not good, to put here sanskrit examples. at iranian words are only old or middle iranian relevant. --Dersimıc 10:39, 29 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

new question: is in your dialect "honey" > "egmên"? --Dersimıc 11:14, 29 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

ps: ask please your profesor also, what was kurdish "jî" for "also" in old or middle iranian languages, thanks.

ps2: ask him also what was new persian "gorosne" (hungry) in avesta, old persian and middle persian. i want know if this was with "s" or with "ş". --Dersimıc 12:44, 29 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

ps3: ask him please also, what was kurdish "ketin", zazaki "kewten" for "to fall" in avesta or other old or middle iranian langauge. thank you. --Dersimıc 12:56, 29 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

ps4: ask him also, what was "rasht" for "right" in parthian. because only in parthian was this with "sh" so far i know. thanks --Dersimıc 12:57, 29 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

new question: what do you say in your dialect to "masal"? sanik, shanik oder estanik? --Dersimıc 12:24, 29 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

new question: what is "o dikiyor" in your dialect, in northern: o derzeno. --Dersimıc 13:32, 29 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

new question: sorry that i question so much, but its imporant, what do you say to "henüz, daha", in northern dialect: hona, example: hona çıniyo = henüz yokdur. hona nêame = henüz/daha gelmedi. --Dersimıc 13:37, 29 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

You asked me a lot of questions. Honey is "egmin" in my dialect. For Rasht read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashnu There is a divinity in Zoroastrianism called Rashnu. In middle Persian, it is "rashn", it is sh in Middle Persian too.

but i read in the etymology book of paul horn, that was in middle persian "rast" and also in avesta. therefore i am confused. in this article dont stand, what the meaning of "rashn" was? its the best that you ask your prof or search in etymolgy sources. thanks.

ps: also the nisanyan etymology dictionary say, that was in "efa" (old persian) and "ave" (avesta) rast:

http://www.nisanyansozluk.com/search.asp?w=rast&x=0&y=0

ps2: asmen said to me before month, that was only in parthian "rasht", therefore we need the parthian word as example. --Dersimıc 15:39, 29 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

I think you should use Parthian version. But I ask my professor. --Xosere 15:41, 29 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

Hikaye is "hikaye" in my dialect unfortunately. O derzeno: "wı ho derzeno" or " ya ha derzena". Sorry I don't know what is "hona" in my dialect. I ask your questions to my professor --Xosere 15:41, 29 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

can i change in the list, the "xo" to "xwe":

http://diq.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zazakiyê_Fonetikio_Standard#x_.2F_h.2C_xu.2C_xw

the arguments: http://diq.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Zazakiyê_Fonetikio_Standard

because there are no arguments to make "xo" standard, so how the people who dont use "xo" can accept "xo" without linguistic arguments and reasons? what do you use in your dialect for "xo"? --Dersimıc 15:51, 29 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

i added the parthian and avesta words for "xo":

http://diq.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zazakiyê_Fonetikio_Standard#x_.2F_h.2C_xu.2C_xw

"o" is only an we > o process, "o" ist not original. its like ew -> o.

what variant we should take, xwe or hwe? --Dersimıc 18:03, 29 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

I think just leave it as "xo" for now. We discuss it later. This is not a big issue. --Xosere 18:05, 29 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

we can take also "hwe", if you want the variant with "h". in proto iranian was this: "hwe", then in avesta "hve", then in middle persian: xwe, in parthian: wxe, in gorani: we, in kurdisch: xwe. new persian: xod, zazaki: xo. "xo" is a new persian loanword i think. the original zazaki is "hwe" (do exist) or "we"(dont exist).

the reason why iam for the "hwe" version is, because we needs argument that everybody can accept a variant, and nobody of the "xwi, xwe, xu" speakers do accept "xo", because we have not historic reasons or arguments for "xo". --Dersimıc 18:15, 29 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I understand. Let's don't stuck here. This is a drop in a gallon of water. What is Vate's standard by the way? xo? --Xosere 18:23, 29 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

Yes "xo" because they dont work linguistic, they make also "roj", "wisar,", "cini" (woman) to standard while they are not the most original variant, they make the standards so: 10-20 vate workers do VOTE without linguistic reasons, with PERSONAL reasons, as example if the most say "word y should be standard" then "word y" will be standard, without reasons or arguments. The most Zazas are bölgecis, how can accept people who use "xwe, xu, xwi, hu, ho, hwe" the variant "xo", if we have not historic or linguistic arguments? --Dersimıc 18:26, 29 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

Just keep it that way since they also use xo. We talk about it later. you can put a question mark in place of xo table. --Xosere 18:37, 29 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

They use also "roj" and other words they are not original. why we should make at "xo" an exception if we take in the other words the most original variants? because of vate? --Dersimıc 18:39, 29 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

I put I a question mark there. Don't worry. We are not linguists either --Xosere 18:41, 29 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

ok, thanks, we are not linguist, but we know the linguistic reasons. and our people can accept only a variant, if we have arguments and reasons. you also are sad about that here in wikipedia nobody accept "zi" while "zi" is more original than "ki". vate build on kurdish and not look to the old iranian or middle iranian words. --Dersimıc 18:45, 29 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

I am really confused. Just calm down little bit bro :). The original must be wo, so whatever you do is not going to be original anyway. Probabaly Zazaki has started to divert to its way before the Avesta language. It is neither Parthian, nor Pehlewi, nor old Persian, nor Avesta. It is something different, a Northwestern development. We don't know anything about that language. The first we can look is Parthian, Gorani, Talishi, Old Azari, and Caspian --Xosere 18:51, 29 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

Why "wo", which historic sources say this? Every linguist say "we". You can read in every linguistisc sources: old iranian: hwe, avesta: hve, middle persian: xwe, parthian: wxe. from where you have "wo"? in gorani it is: we. the "xod" in new persian, is only an "we" -> "o" process, "o" is not original. In Zazaki there exist now this variants: xwe, hwe, xwı, xo, ho, xu. And what are the most originals of this variants if we look to old iranian and middle iranian? --Dersimıc 19:04, 29 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

Okay it is "we". Just put there whichever you think is suitable. I don't have any idea on this issue. --Xosere 19:05, 29 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

Our personal ideas are not important bira. If we go to the personal ideas, then we have a big problem. Then come 400 people who have all own personal ideas. we cant take "we", because nobody use or understand this. we have only the chance to take hwe or xwe. and "hwe" ise more original, therefore "hwe". we use also in our dialect "xo". but many zazas (they are really many) use also other variants (xwı, xu, hu, ho). they cant accept "xo" without reasons. if you ask your prof, then he say this: avesta: hva/xva, old iranian: hwa, middle persian: xwa, parthian: wxa. in zaza alphabet (because "a" in persian is in zaza alphabet "e", â is a): hve, hwe, xwe, wxe. --Dersimıc 19:14, 29 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

Okay, then put hwe. Why do you think that people will accept hwe while they don't accept orher simple rules? --Xosere 19:24, 29 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

Why we should make a variant they is not original to standard? And how we can create a standard, if we have not linguistic arguments? The people can only can accept the standards if they see arguments. And until to this time, nobody create such lists with historic roots. If i did demonstrate as example to ZazaYasar what was "hewn", "gırewt", "vewr" in old or middle iranian, he was quiet, because he saw the arguments. we have not other chance, what we can do else? its only this way possible. we can win in this way. but if we make standards of personal ideas, then we can only lose. --Dersimıc 19:37, 29 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

---

i took now "ho" to the standard http://diq.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zazakiyê_Fonetikio_Standard#x_.2F_h.2C_xu because its the most original version. asmen is right in the issue that variants like "xuı" is only changing of "o", like ko > kue, rot -> ruet etc. the "x" in "xo" is persian/kurdish influence (kurdish: xwe, xo, persian: xod), in nothing other zaza word exist this "x" at words who were in old iranian "hw". you can see as example at "hewn" who is frome old iranian "hvefne / hwefne" again "h", which is in kurdish "xewn" and in persian "xab".

also linguists say and asmen says this: h / w = northwestiranian, xw / x = southwestiranian, at louds who are in proto-iranian "hw / hv". but there is no variant in zaza exist with "hw" for "self", therefore "ho" should be standard. its also understandable like "xo". and the best is, that the lehcecis have then fewer arguments to declare zaza to kurdish and our people give zazaki more worth, if zazaki is more independent . ;) what dou you think? --Dersimıc 21:09, 30 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

[bıvurne] Vurnayışê boti

Ma gere/gani hurendia "Bot değişikliği Ekleniyor" dı "Vurnayışê boti ama (ume, ame) nustene" bınuşê (bınuşime). Tı eşkenê ena cumle açarnê Zazaki?

Bıra tı ra yew reca mı esta: Wikipedia Zazaki dı, ma gere/gani Zazaki bınuşê. Ez otir zana kı, tı Zazaki hol nêzanê, feqet çıqa kı Zazaki zanenê hentı bınus..(Even you cannot speake Zazaki well, please try to speake Zazaki instead of English. when you cant write a sentence in Zazaki, ok, you can turn to English. I think by this way, you can improve your Zazaki skills)..

Also we must focus on writing new articles. we must stop spending time about standard Zazaki of wikipedia. we must write new articles instead of discussion about it. Best wishes.:)--Belekvor 22:39, 30 Nisane 2008 (UTC)

[bıvurne] "nas" for "tanimak" is not arabic

The "nas" in Kurdish and Northern Zazaki is only a shorted version of "shi-nas", its have not relation to arabic "nass" which have other meaning:

http://www.nisanyansozluk.com/search.asp?w=nas&x=0&y=0

nas/nass- nass [xiv] ~ Ar naSS [#nSS msd.] 1. kesin ve nihai olma, 2. Kuran veya hadiste kesin önerme < Ar naSSa yükseltti, kaldırdı, sonuna kadar götürdü, kanıtladı,nihai otoriteye dayandırdı

In Zazaki are "nas" and "şınas" the variants of the same word, "nas" is only shorted version. Also "var" in Turkish have no realation with avesta "vâr" (water). Its normal if words are in the loud have similiraty, the important thing is the meaning. and the meaning of northern zazaki / kurdish "nas" is completly different from arabic "nas". --Dersimıc 19:26, 1 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

ok thank you bra. --Dersimıc 16:25, 6 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

[bıvurne] welcome text

i write this in turkish, cünkü inglizcem yeterince yüksek seviyede degil kendimi rahat ifade etmek icin. "welcome"-yazisindaki anlmadigin bütün sözcükleri lütfen buraya yaz, sizin lehcede nasil olduklarini aristiralim diye. bazi sözcükler degisikse, ozaman belki orta yol bula biriz. --Dersimıc 16:32, 8 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

[bıvurne] more examples

i have here more examples for you:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer_Diskussion:Shado#c.2C_.C3.A7

i am tired and busy, therefore put you to the list, if you have time. if you have questions for the meaning, then ask me here. --Dersimıc 20:23, 10 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

hi, i leaved this site. this is my last post:

i put things like "dost", because i calculate in my site how much northwest and howmuch southwest elements have kurdish persian and zazaki. my site have an another topic. "viceno ro" / "ro viceno" = he sifts. rêc- = presense steme of "akmak". serpez = in turkish "dalak", in english "spleen, milt". "vez"- = presense steme for "run", o vezeno = he runs, "vaz dano" (koshu veriyor) is only changed version, the most original is "o vezeno" and in the past time "o veşt" = koshdu, "ey vaz da" is only "o koshu verdi". zehr = turkish zehir, in zazaki "jar". you msut not put all words of them, only words who you need. therefore i give the link.

i have the word "diyan" of asmeno bewayir, he say, this is beside arabic "fek" in using, but for other meaning. but you dont must put southwestiranian words, because your topic is different, my topic is = calculate sw and nw elements in the languages (therefore the points). --Dersimıc 11:41, 14 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

hi, a question: what is "gelmek" in your dialect? umeyış or umayış? thanks. and what is "sen hoshgeldin" and "ben geldim"? --Dersimıc 12:45, 16 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

"umeyış" and "tı xer ume". --Xosere 16:14, 16 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

tesekkürler, bizim kuzeyliler yine kuzeye yakin olsun diye bir orijinal olmiyan varyanteyi tercih etmisler. oysa asmen seneler önce "ameyen"in en orijinal oldugunu kac forumda yazmisdi, "amayen"i "ameyen"e degistirdim:

http://diq.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zazakiyê_Fonetikio_Standard#a_.2F_o.2C_u --Dersimıc 16:29, 16 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

new question: are there also the variants "heger" or "eger" in the central dialects? whic variants for "if" do you know in zazaki? thanks. --Dersimıc 16:32, 16 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

We use mostly "eka". "eger" or "eg" is also used, but it is arabic. --Xosere 18:05, 16 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

hi, eger is not arabic, its iranic, look:

http://www.nisanyansozluk.com/search.asp?w=e%F0er&x=0&y=0

http://www.tdk.org.tr/TR/SozBul.aspx?F6E10F8892433CFFAAF6AA849816B2EF4376734BED947CDE&Kelime=e%c4%9fer

ps: the "a" in perso-arabic-latin script means "e" in zazaki, a = e, â = a, e = ê.

ok, i will write in english. --Dersimıc 18:10, 16 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

new question: do you know what the southern zazas do use for "if"? thanks. --Dersimıc 18:12, 16 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

I don't know. --Xosere 18:27, 16 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

[bıvurne] thank you brader

its was very difficult for me, because my zazaki ist not so god. thank you for your help. --Dersimıc 21:18, 16 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

ok, zaf sıpas kenan, şew weş. --Dersimıc 22:06, 16 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

[bıvurne] xo vs. ho, hewte vs. hefte

hi bra, i think, we should replace this kurdish loanword "xo" with the pure zazaki word "ho" everywhere, in the templates, in the logo, welcome text etc. its also a part of the standard wikipedia zazaki. and its will help us against the kurdish assimilation, its were a good step for the future. its not artifical, because this variant is using by many people and its the most original variant, the proto-indoeuropean "s" (self, sweet, seven etc.) changed in iranian directly to "h" (as in zaza: des -> kurdish/persian: deh), the "x" of kurdish and persian came later (in the middle iranian periode). and "xo" in zazaki ist definitly kurdish influence, you can see at "hewn", that the right zaza form for old iranian "hv" is: w (wesh, werd etc.) or h (hewn). in kurdish and persian: x (xorden, xwardin, xosh, xwesh) or again x (xewn, xew, xab). also asmen didnt say something against "ho". because the history shows, that is the most original variant. --Dersimıc 16:43, 17 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

ps: its were good to create an own box in the start page for "Zazakiyê Wikipediyayo Standard" with links inside boxes like here: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accueil or here http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ana_Sayfa --Dersimıc 16:46, 17 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

---

Ps2: Do the variant "hewte" for "weak" really exist? So far i know do all Zazas use "hefte"? In the real speaking if anybody use "hewte" for "weak", the people cant understand this. If we cant change "dest" with "zest", "serxoş" with "serweş", then i think, that its not possible to replace "hefte" with "hewte", because nobody can understand this in the real speaking as "weak". and its not really a loanword, because zazaki changed the middle iranian "f" to "w" in a later time. i dont think, that zazaki changed old iranian "p" direct to "w", because zazaki exist since 5. century AC, all middle iranian languages had this "f", the "w" comes in the new iranian periode in some language as zazaki, but also sorani. before this time was zazaki only an dialect of parthian or similiar language. also the sorani kurdish changed the "heft" for "seven" to "hewt", but kurmanci kurdish let "heft", or sorani kurdish changed the middle iranian keft to > kewt as zazaki. the separating between sorani and kurmanci is only ca. 700 years old. there are still zaza-dialects as in aksaray, they use "haft" for "seven" (but this is not important, because they are 10-20 persons). we can see if we look to the history of iranian langauges, that zazaki and sorani changed "f" to "w".

"hewte" for "weak" is anyway a word which nobody do know. this is the problem. if "hefte" were an turkish or arabic word, then you were right with the changing. --Dersimıc 20:03, 17 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

I have final exams till thursday. I have to study for them. I'll get back to you on Friday. --Xosere 06:43, 18 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

thanks to putting the michael jackson article to the home-page. --Dersimıc 17:12, 26 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

[bıvurne] labele, a word which nobody can understand

if asmen says that "labele" is also arabic, why we use this then?? please look here:

http://diq.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Xeyr_amey#nobody_can_understand_.22labele.22

i dont see a sence in a using of ARABIC word who nobody can understand. why we dont use the knowened arabic wods like "ema, feqat, ancax". what is in "labele" so much better if "labele" is also arabic? if this were iranic i were understand it. --Dersimıc 14:41, 28 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

ps: dont understand me false, i know that asmen changed again to "labele". --Dersimıc 14:41, 28 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

I agree with you on this issue.--Xosere 04:20, 29 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

[bıvurne] the logo

hi, its were nice, if you change in the logo the "xosere" to "hosere" for a step to a better future for zazaki. have no fear, we have the historic arguments, nobody can say anything. everybody, every linguist do know that "hv" is older then "xv" at PIE "sw" in iranic. in old avsta was this "hvet", then in new avesta xvet, middle persian xwet, parthian wxed, even in old persian was this with "h". "h" is older, therefore: ho is the most original variant. and what do say the people of zazaki insitute?: its necessary to take the most original variants. therefore its totally legitime to take "hosere". --Dersimıc 16:12, 28 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

PS: i asked asmen about this issue in his personal page, but he dont answerd me, instead of this he canceld your changes without any reason. because he self know that "h" is older. --Dersimıc 16:14, 28 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

I don't know how to edit a picture. Can you help me, or know somebody can help us? You need to change the writing of this picture: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Wikipedia-logo-en.png

If you can help us, it would be great. --Xosere 04:19, 29 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

yes i can it. but i need the font file of this font, or the font name (if this already in windows exist). --Dersimıc 10:55, 29 Gulane 2008 (UTC)

[bıvurne] i created the logo

here:

[bıvurne] Help

Please, could you translate this article onto Zazaki, please? A stub is enough. If you want to translate any article onto Spanish, Catalonian or Galician, tell it to me please. Chabi

[bıvurne] Bureaucrate and bots

Bıra what do you think about the following message ----Belekvor^{mı rê mesaj bırusne} 16:07, 1 Hezirane 2008 (UTC)? ==>

"Could you please take a look the bots running around without botflag flooding the Recent Change list. And do what you think should be done. I suggest blocking or giving botflags or warnings or requesting that they ask for a botflag. User:CarsracBot 15:45, 1 Hezirane 2008 (UTC)"

---

[bıvurne] Pela Seri

Hi bıra, I just tried to see different appearances to create a new and modern Pela Seri. Now bıra I will sleep, see you tomorrow..You, me and Dersimıc , we can create a nice Pela Seri. I am waiting for suggestions..----Belekvor^{mı rê mesaj bırusne} 04:54, 5 Hezirane 2008 (UTC)

[bıvurne] Monthly meetings

Hi bira, can we have monthly meeting starting this weekend? You, me, Asmen, Mirazali and also Dersimic should come and talk about issues. This will make our job much more easier. Better communication will create a better Wikipedia. I'll contact to Asmen and Mirzali tonight. Do you have a hotmail account? We will probably use MSN's messenger. --Xosere 02:05, 7 Hezirane 2008 (UTC)

Mabıxêrdi (Mrb, sılam) bıra, msnê mı belekvor@hotmail.com .You are right...we should talk about issues. However, everbody is busy. I dont know how we can contact to each other..Asmen is busy, Mirzali has health problems..I will be absent soon, for 2-3 months...We should invite new Zazaki-speakers from the Zaza forums..We have 150-170 users, but everybody writes too little..Contributions are not enough, unfortunately..I think we shouldnt warn new users that dont know standard Zazaki to write Standard Zazaki. Every new users should have opportunity to write in their own dialects..Then we will organise their writings...We need many new users to create new titles.. ----Belekvor^{mı rê mesaj bırusne} 12:45, 8 Hezirane 2008 (UTC)