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Contents 1 Proposed WikiProject 2 StuRat's Rant of the Month 2.1 January, 2006 2.2 February, 2006 3 Vicious comments from others (and a few that aren't) 3.1 Archives 3.2 Award 3.3 Barnstar 3.4 Reference Desk and unicorns 3.5 Welcome back 3.6 Reference Desk 3.7 Language 3.8 Thanks. 3.9 Nick 3.10 Templates 3.11 Barnstars 3.12 Chianti and fava beans, 3.13 Mathematics Ref Desk 3.14 XMAS colors 3.15 more on RD 3.16 A modest proposal 3.17 Barnstar 3.18 Chapeau 3.19 Sorry, but I am leaving 3.20 LOL 3.21 Nicotine Addiction 3.22 Fundamentals of marketing 3.23 Thanks for Helping Me Out! 3.24 abridged too far 3.25 Chain letters 3.26 Dozens? 3.27 "The greater good" sounds familiar... 3.28 Re: Free Beer 3.29 Your puns 3.30 Regarding our exchanges above 3.31 Wikipedia:Requests for comment/StuRat 2 3.32 Ingemar's antics in My Life as a Dog 3.33 Ref Desk 3.34 Wikipedia:Responding to suicidal individuals 3.35 Hiya Stu 3.36 Don't worry, Clio will be back 3.36.1 I'm really disappointed in you for this subthread 3.37 Aren't you tired yet? 3.38 Jews 3.39 Your comment at the Ref Desk talk page 3.40 I'm sorry :( 3.41 You and Friday 3.42 Bearnstar 3.43 Please stop feeding the trolls, or at least one particular troll 3.44 Colour Inkjet Refill 3.45 Useful article to be deleted 3.46 Speedy tagged Image 3.47 Election for the Board of Trustees 3.48 "Incarated" 3.49 "Discussion" to "talk" 3.50 Integrin 3.51 Administrators and the stanford prison experiment 3.52 Matrixism 3.53 Hobo etc.... 3.54 you don't happen to understand lojban 3.55 Barnstar 3.56 Matrixism (2) 3.57 Medical advice on the Ref Desk 3.58 wunderground.com 3.59 Seriously? 3.60 Matrixism Deleted by Rogue Administrator 3.61 Isochoric process now available to normal people 3.62 Simple Math Question -- Need Help -- Leap Years (?) 3.62.1 Method One 3.62.2 Method Two 3.62.3 Method Three 3.62.4 Method Four 3.62.5 Question 3.63 RD: Decline 3.64 Non-Euclidean? 3.65 Carpal tunnel syndrome 3.66 A.Z.'s block 3.67 Toys Я Us advertisment 3.68 Christmas Carols 3.69 Boolean logic 3.70 Boolean algebra task force 3.71 regarding excess water intake! 3.72 CECB List 3.72.1 Other Features Breakdown 3.73 High Output Renal Failure 3.74 Humour 3.75 You have been in extremely good form lately 3.76 RefDesk 3.77 Update on the "flaming drink" question 3.78 economics 3.79 formating hints/ ref. desk 3.80 Gully e-card... 3.81 hi 3.82 Proposal 3.83 Language of the dinosaurs

[edit] Proposed WikiProject

Hi StuRat

I've noticed that you previously posted a comment on the user talk of the Memory Protection article. I was wondering if you'd be interested on a WikiProject on OS Development? I created a proposal at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Proposals#OS_Development

Jatos 09:14, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't think I'd be much help there, as my experience with operating systems is strictly as a user. I think you need to find some O/S level programmers (I'm just an application programmer) to help. BTW, I prefer that new comments be placed at the bottom of my talk page, so I will move this comment to the bottom after you've had a chance to read it. StuRat 14:53, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] StuRat's Rant of the Month

[edit] January, 2006

"Welcome to Uranus-Hertz Corp. Your call is important to us, although obviously not important enough to actually hire sufficient staff to answer it. Come to think of it, your call isn't very important to us at all, and neither are you. If you have any complaints, we will be glad to connect you to our call center in India, where they will promptly disconnect you. Actually, it won't be all that prompt, you will have to listen to off-station MUZAK for several minutes first."

[edit] February, 2006

I actually prefer dials to digital pads. My current microwave oven has one dial for time and one for power level. It has a handle you pull to open, not a button you have to depress. It has no digital display. I can't stand those electronic pads where you have to enter info in a specific way to get it to cooperate and need to re-enter the time after every power glitch to prevent it from flashing 12:00 all the time (like a VCR). Also, on a TV which lacks a volume dial, it's impossible to turn it on and turn the volume down in the early morning hours without waking everybody in the house. With a dial you can turn the volume down before even turning it on.

Another example of technology run amok is the digital "temperature control system" on my truck. In order to receive "permission" to switch to recirc mode when the truck in front of me is belching diesel fumes, I must first page thru the menu until I set it to the face vents position, otherwise it will flash a red light at me that means "access denied". Good luck doing all that while driving. Then, when I turn the vehicle off, all the settings go back to the defaults, as opposed to a manual system which would damn well leave it how I had set it. I guess I will just have to get used to looking (and coughing) like a chimney sweep. Well, I enjoyed my good morning rant, did you ?

[edit] Vicious comments from others (and a few that aren't)

[edit] Archives

[1] [2] [3] [4]

[edit] Award

Thanks ! ...wouldn't you know my first award would be for being a smart ass ? StuRat 02:32, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstar

		The E=MC² Barnstar
		For your extraordinary contributions to Wikipedia reference desks, I award you this EMC² Barnstar. Keep up the good work! deeptrivia (talk) 03:51, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks ! StuRat 19:29, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

I maynot be qualified enough to award anything but I can surely support the barnstar you got. Good on you mate! you certainly deserve it ... (My IP address is not permanent.) As per your request I put the four tildes. 202.161.131.69 19:17, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, too ! StuRat 22:25, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reference Desk and unicorns

Notwithstanding what it may say about me that I haven't written apropos of any of your quality responses to sundry questions posed at the various Reference Desks but that I write now about a jocular comment, I must commend your unicorn leapfrogging entry, about which I laughed a good deal. I should say, of course, that I find msot of your answers to be altogether excellent and that I think excellence in responding to questions at the Reference Desks is to be admired, inasmuch as the Reference Desk is often the first location at which non-Wikipedians encounter Wikipedia and its editors, such that one's being well-treated at the Reference Desk may lead one to partake of the editing work, improving the project writ large. Joe 01:13, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks ! And you managed to say it all in just two sentences, LOL. StuRat 01:24, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome back

Hi StuRat. I always look forward to reading your posts on the Ref Desk, with their trademark clarity and sanity, and even when I disagree with your arguments, they always give me plenty to think about, so whenever you go AWOL you leave a gaping hole. Welcome back, and I hope you were enjoying whatever you were doing. Cheers JackofOz 14:03, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I wasn't actually away, just reduced my level of contributions as I'm in the process of moving. Next month I should be back to "full time". StuRat 15:55, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reference Desk

Thank you for pointing out the template on the Ottoman capitals, I guess I was too busy looking for the capitals in the article to notice. By the way, those are a lot of edits you have. | AndonicO 12:01, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome ! StuRat 12:07, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh StuRat, Canada stands on guard for thee as we commend you for your incredible selfless robot-like diligence in maintain intergalactic order at RD. I seriously hope you're not getting in shit at work for doing this. I'm not really sure what's happened to all the bot requests, but for the moment I have started laying out a make-shift RD that could be used to transfer the existing pages into a new stream-lined interface once there is a bot willing to handle all of the archiving. After the front page is expanded to include all the rules and stuff, I'm going to add a new RD template to each of the subpages, and see where I can go from there.  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  05:02, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Cool. And thanks. StuRat 06:32, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of which, I've worked your reference to the previous months archive into the template directly, so it's now a part of the top bar--152.163.100.136 18:21, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good, but is this Fresh ? Just forgot to log in ? StuRat 18:53, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Nope.  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  01:34, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm a mystery, wrapped in an enigma, either that or I'm VectorPotential (: The date math in the current version of the template is so twisted I figured I was the only one who would be able to update it at this point (: Even if I am too busy with university work to continue hands-on RD maintenance work -- 172.147.144.217 17:44, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Yea, that date math confused me. StuRat 17:53, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

If I have some free time this weekend I'll try and template-ify some of the date math, to make the header less cluttered. Also, there's still one minor glitch concerning the years, sort of going to be a problem once we get to 2007.--172.165.196.210 10:39, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

OK, cool. StuRat 10:46, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok, that didn't work, just made it more buggy and over complicated--Molecular Hamiltonian 19:19, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok, now it does work, but only with subst--Molecular Hamiltonian 19:53, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Language

"RefDeskia". Hehe. I Like it. :) --Russoc4 17:36, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks ! :-) StuRat 17:43, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks.

Hey, just a quick thanks for helping with my question on Reference/Science: "In tides, why is the eighth wave always the largest?". You're answer was really helpful. Robinoke 21:13, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

You're quite welcome ! StuRat 22:56, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nick

Hi StuRat, I'm just curious about your username. Does it mean anything? Are you aware that it is the (half-correctt, official is "StR") abbreviation for "Studienrat", the default job title and salary level for high school teachers in German state service? Simon A. 07:23, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

No, it's a variation on my name, Stuart. My parents once received a letter from my school saying "We would like to congratulate your daughter Sturat on her excellent academic performance. I thought it was so funny that I continue to use it as a screen name to this day. StuRat 18:16, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Are you a female!!! the name stuart doesnt sound feminine.nids(♂) 18:22, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

No, I'm not, that's what made it so funny. StuRat 18:38, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

So, your school staff is guilty for double error on the same letter.nids(♂) 18:55, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, they were apparently attempting to compensate for the academic excellence of the students with extreme administrative incompetence. :-) StuRat 19:08, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Templates

Also, I wanted to talk about that templates. This one is horribly inflammatory:

This one is better, but still rather unpleasant:

Perhaps it could say something more like this, customized for the Ref Desk, Help Desk, and any other location where questions are asked and answered:

StuRat 03:31, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

It's one of a series of user warnings, for use on user talk pages not on article pages. Your wording sounds like something for the RD. Is the issue you don't want it on this page? The point is to encourage a user to stop doing something. I hope we're at the point of having a rational discussion. I don't see any particular reason to keep it here. -- Rick Block (talk) 04:26, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Our edits seem to have crossed paths. Templates like this are almost never used at the point of reference, but on the user talk page (at the point of reference generally the offending comment is simply removed). The "forum" style pages (HD, RD, VP) are perhaps special, but I'm not sure it's a good idea to have these sorts of templates on the RD. -- Rick Block (talk) 04:26, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the last one might be good to let everyone know the question remains unanswered. When I see several pages of replies, I generally assume there's an answer in there somewhere, but this would let me know there wasn't, at least at the point where it's posted. I think I'll propose it at the Ref Desk talk page and see who salutes. StuRat 04:29, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, ref desk talk page seems like a good idea. -- Rick Block (talk) 04:41, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstars

		The Barnstar of Good Humor
		Sorry this is (very) late, but I had meant to give you a barnstar for your comment at the reference desk a few months ago. In answer to how copper wiring was made you said: "Two thrifty Scots found the same penny at the same time." Thank you for lightening up Wikipedia. | AndonicO Talk 11:26, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Och Aye but isnt that a bit racialist these days? Plus if you said that in Glasgow.... well I wouldnt! 8-)--Light current 11:38, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks ! I'm partially Scottish myself, and very cheap, so claim the right to make fun of myself. StuRat 12:35, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Ah so it was you and your brother who found that penny? 8-)

[edit] Chianti and fava beans,

Before you break out the Chianti and fava beans, ...

Well done, StuRat, well done! :-)

Atlant 18:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks ! StuRat 19:03, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mathematics Ref Desk

Thanks for trying to help me at the ref desk,I'm afraid maths isn't my strong point.Also,it was really kind of you to actually do the problem yourself.I promise I'll read more about maths so that I don't annoy you too much with my silly questions :) Starkidstar 06:18, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome. If you'll go ahead and list how you did it I will look for any errors. StuRat 06:28, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] XMAS colors

		The Barnstar of Good Humor
		When asked why red and green are Christmas colors, you said:"I did have another theory about why red and green are the XMAS colors, but I think it's probably only my family who celebrates XMAS by putting frogs in blenders." I keep wondering how many of these you are going to get... | AndonicO Talk | Sign Here 16:22, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks ! StuRat 16:31, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome. But thank yourself too; you earned it, and made me laugh very hard in the process. :-) | AndonicO ^{Talk | Sign Here} 17:11, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks again, my goal in life is to make everyone wet their pants. (I secretly own the company that makes Depends.) StuRat 17:16, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Well then, get back into life! ;-) | AndonicO ^{Talk | Sign Here} 18:04, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Is "get back into life" their slogan ? I thought it was "good to the last drop". :-) StuRat 18:53, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Well that too. :-) | AndonicO ^{Talk | Sign Here} 19:42, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Now if it didnt seem like sycophancy or loyalty or something, I would award StuRat with something! Im not sure what yet! Lets wait and see what comes to mind.--Light current 00:46, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, you give him a barnstar; it wouldn't look good if I gave him two in a row. | AndonicO ^{Talk | Sign Here} 00:59, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

My respect for StuRat is worth more than a truckload of Barnstars!--Light current 01:28, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I concur; I won't say "more than a shipload" because it would seem childish.

What we need is an award for StuRat putting up with gigatons of irrelevant bullshit presented as coherent and sensible argument--Light current 01:36, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

What, you mean they aren't coherent and sensible arguments? ;-) | AndonicO ^{Talk | Sign Here} 01:51, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] more on RD

Hi - I hope I didn't offend you with my latest comments on the talk thread. I get the impression you are sincerely trying to find a path to a solution and very much appreciate the effort you're putting into this. Like I say, I'm busy in real life at the moment so don't have (and will not soon have) much time to participate in this discussion. I suspect this whole thing has been quite upsetting for you - please don't give up. -- Rick Block (talk) 16:13, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks ! StuRat 16:17, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A modest proposal

Hi StuRat - thanks for keeping the conversation alive on the RD - I think I'm going to call it a day, and I think I'm going to leave things as is. I've written all there is which needed to be said I think, and it's time for me to move on. There's a lot of good nuggets there, so hopefully some Wikipedians will pick up on what I've tried to get at. In the meantime, I cannot guarantee that I will be around the RD for a sustained period, but do keep an eye out for my edits there - I have a feeling that some normalcy can come back to the project soon. Cheers, HappyCamper 20:21, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your help. I am afraid that User:Friday's tendency to do things in a unilateral way will return, however, without another Admin prodding him toward building a consensus with the rest of us. May I call on you if he drifts back in that direction ? StuRat 20:31, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm always around. :-) --HappyCamper 20:37, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstar

		The Barnstar of Good Humor
		For a funny comment at the expense of Microsoft: "I actually like the name 'Windows' for the O/S, as it accurately portrays how paneful it is to use." I recieved a barnstar for a similar comment so I thought I'd spread the love frothT C 20:44, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks ! StuRat 20:49, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chapeau

I tip my hat to your tireless efforts on continuing the discourse at Wikipedia_talk:Reference_desk. I think the process has revealed some interesting points. I'm sorry my support was sporadic at best - apart from an overstuffed agenda, I also felt a bit lost and overpowered by the tremendous pace of evolving issues on multiple pages (and also admit to being rule-o-phobe). I decided not to comment on the RFCs on you and THB, because it doesn't seem necessary, but if someone else is going to support the poster's view I will change my mind, and also post a comment. I'm concerned (scratch that, I'm angry) about these recent developments and, FWIW, will try to help you guys when I finally have some spare time next week. Meanwhile, keep up the stiff upper lip, and good luck! ---Sluzzelin 11:07, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your support. I agree on not commenting until the RFC's at least get a second. This issue just appears to be an unwarranted distraction, IMHO. StuRat 13:02, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sorry, but I am leaving

StuRat - just to let you know that I'm am going to leave the RD guideline and RD talk page discussions. I just can't deal with Radiant and Hipocrite any more. Every time I interact with them I end up feeling disgusted and soiled. I am going to find some far corner of Wikpedia where the air is clean and the water is pure and I can leave their poison far behind. Sorry to see that Friday has endorsed your RfC, but I am sure it will just die from lack of further input. Keep up the good work, and thank you for all your help. Gandalf61 21:05, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Please reconsider. We need the voices of sane people to finish this process. If you leave, you let the bullies win. That doesn't just have implications for the Ref Desk, but for every corner of Wikipedia, even the dark corners. Light's block ends soon, and DirkvdM still occasionally participates in the talk page discussions:

"...and when they came for me, there was nobody left to protest." StuRat 21:20, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

except me! (I hope)--Light current 03:15, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

As the old latin saying goes: Nil desperandum carborundum. loosely translated as: Dont let the bastards grind you down! 8-)--Light current 03:16, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] LOL

Loved the chicken farmer joke. Bet it is nuked before midnight, though. Gandalf61 18:31, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

That would surely be fowl play! Where is it anyway. Post a link--Light current 18:39, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Glad you liked the joke, here it is: Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#Nobel_Prize_Laureate.....28Women.29. StuRat 18:46, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

And here's a copy, in case it gets deleted:

A chicken farmer had a problem rooster that was stressing out the hens with "unwanted attentions" and solved the problem by putting a bell around the rooster's neck to give the hens adequate warning. However, the rooster soon learned to silence the bell by covering it with a wing, allowing him to once again sneak up on the hens. For his study of this amazing example of animal reasoning and learning, a noted professor has received both the "No bell piece prize" and the "Pullet surprise". :-) StuRat 15:32, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

This really is pulling our Leghorns--Light current 19:05, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Howdy StuRat. It's a cute play on words, but your comment didn't really do anything to help answer the poster's question. Please, take pity on the dial-up users of the Ref Desk. If you'd like to share jokes with other editors, consider using their talk pages or email in the future. Heck, create a section in your user space; I'm sure it would be well-subscribed.

Nobody's going to 'nuke' your remark; it doesn't attack anyone and is unlikely to offend. I'm just dropping in to ask you to remember the purpose of the Ref Desk (it's there to answer questions). If you want to tell a joke on the Desk, try to work some useful information into it—that way everyone is happy. Cheers, TenOfAllTrades(talk) 19:13, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I do try to do that, but this joke was at least related to the topic. I use that as a bare minimum requirement. StuRat 19:19, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Its good to see you have Standards, Stu! 8-)--Light current 19:22, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Removed.EricR 23:12, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for at least notifying me. However, your comment that it was "off topic" is incorrect, as both the joke and topic were on the Nobel Prize. StuRat 23:15, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

There's more to being on-topic on the ref desk than just being vaguely related to the question; there's also the matter of actually helping to answer the question. The ref desk, after all, is for answering questions. -- SCZenz 23:18, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Answering the question and being on topic are two quite different issues. For example, a request for a clarification is on topic, but doesn't answer the question, just like this joke. StuRat 23:23, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Being on-topic for the page means asking or answering a question, or doing something that works toward answering a question (like a request for clarification). -- SCZenz 23:25, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

You've got a whole new def of "on topic" there, but is this really worth arguing about ? Call it whatever you want, I don't care to fight about it. Let's just agree to disagree peacefully, shall we ? StuRat 23:31, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree that what we call it isn't important. I think we agree that the reference desk should be used primarily for asking and working on answering questions, at least. -- SCZenz 23:34, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Primarily, yes. Exclusively, no. Building a sense of community is also important. And, sometimes, that can be facilitated with humor. StuRat 23:37, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

You cannot be serious! [5] 8-)--Light current 23:43, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nicotine Addiction

Thanks. Your answer to my question about the addictiveness of nicotine at the reference desk was exactly what I was looking for. BeefJeaunt 03:03, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome, and good luck on your report ! StuRat 03:23, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fundamentals of marketing

That was an awesome, AWESOME answer. Anchoress 18:19, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks ! StuRat 18:21, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I have to second that. I just about choked on my coffee, when I saw that and laughed. Nice job!! Antandrus (talk) 18:22, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome, and here's a link for those who missed it: [6]. StuRat 18:24, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for Helping Me Out!

Dear StuRat,

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question about the equation of a line. I really appreciate it =) Alex Ng 19:49, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

You're quite welcome ! StuRat 20:08, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] abridged too far

Hello - irrespective of all the issues all the regular Ref Desk posters are discussing, just wanted to express my appreciation for your most apt replies. "Abridged too far" really made me smile! Wonderful! Happy New Year --Geologyguy 00:24, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, that's very gneiss of you. (I don't want you to think I'm stoned or anything, I just have quite an apatite for puns, especially puns that rock. If I leave a pun out, I feel like I might gypsum body.) StuRat 01:18, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

WTF are you talcing about?--Light current 02:02, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Thats another one chalked up! Any Moh's?--Light current 02:09, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

We're starting to accumulate quite a conglomerate of puns here. StuRat 02:17, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

No schist! --Geologyguy 03:15, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

No you mean aggregate--Light current 02:24, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

I think someone should get slated for al these terrible puns 8-)--Light current 03:18, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

It seams to me that you only have yourself to blame. David D. (Talk) 18:49, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Eh?--Light current 19:18, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Look up seam. I guess if you have to explain the pun it doesn't really work.David D. (Talk) 19:34, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

I think I lost my apatite, as much as I enjoyed the "abridged too far." It's not that I beryl will to ya'll, but this is too much. Shame there seams to be no article on seam--it's absence diabases the value of Wikipedia. KP Botany 20:05, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that is unseamly. It stings that there isn't even an article on the song We Work the Black Seam; somebody should call the content police. StuRat 20:35, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Chertainly we should mica note of its absense in the disambig page. David D. (Talk) 21:46, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

OK I understand mica, but WTFs note got to do with it? Youll have to do better than this on the RDs! 8-)--Light current 21:59, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

You didn't notice StuRat's change of course? We're now going over a clef with the police in tow. At least we'll get a good view of the strata on the way down. David D. (Talk) 22:05, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I thought we could double our pun if we bass them on both geology and music. Perhaps I should add another topic so we can treble our punishment ? StuRat 22:40, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Dunite. KP Botany 22:45, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

I think I shale call that a day. Unless any one thinks otherwise.--Light current 22:07, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

A stalag mite be the right punishment for bad punners.Edison 23:54, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Stalagmites are attached at the bottom and stalactites at the top, so what do you call them if they're attached at both ends ? A mitey-tite, of course. StuRat 00:29, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Of cuourse one easy way to tell the difference (as one of my old GFs told me) is that 'Tites' always come down! BTW do you get a prize for having the longest pun run?--Light current 01:50, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chain letters

You wrote: "For that matter, how about chain letters, especially the online variety, which can grow and mutate and reproduce, with the more successful mutations surviving and the less successful dying out. So, are they alive ? (Sure, they need people to survive, but don't many living parasites also need hosts ?)" StuRat 22:34, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

This is a good example, has reproduction, mutations and natural selection. David D. (Talk) 06:29, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. StuRat 07:37, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dozens?

The notion that a hunter would kill dozens of birds with a single shot seems outlandish to me. Do you have a reference for this? Friday (talk) 19:30, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh geez, so it starts again. It’s not outlandish at all. Each shotgun contains many pellets, see illustration of a target hit by one: [7]. With the birds packed into such a dense cloud, each pellet was likely to hit and each kill or incapacitate at least one bird. If you count the number of pellet holes, you will see there are dozens. StuRat 20:44, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

A comment from an editor who writes with English as a lingua franca in mind (i.e. for the benefit of non-native speakers among your readers): I didn't see the original post, but just based on the above, I'd recommend avoiding any ambiguity inherent in the wording single shot (focused on the action of firing the weapon?) by substituting single blast (to indicate a possible indeterminate number of multiple projectiles having been fired in that act). Just an idea. -- Deborahjay 05:12, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Good point, Friday should have said "a single blast". StuRat 12:15, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Sure, I'm familiar with shotguns. Depending on shot size, there may be anywhere from less than 10, to several hundred pellets. Very small ones won't generally kill a target individually- typically the target is hit by many pellets. The shot pattern will spread out over a distance, and the individual pellets will lose their effectiveness as velocity decreases (which is does quite rapidly with such a small projectile.) Do you have a source that mentions anyone downing dozens of pigeons with a single shot? Friday (talk) 21:32, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

It was from a TV show on PBS many years ago, and I have no idea what the name of it was. At moderate range the pellets are spread out far enough to hit dozens of birds (provided the birds are there) and still have enough force to kill or incapacitate the birds. Those which were incapacitated fell to the ground and were finished off by the hunters or their dogs. StuRat 21:44, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Eh, I suppose it's a small issue- it's not like you're putting this assertion into an article. But, please do rememember that the ref desk isn't very well served by us basing what we say from our recollections of things we saw on TV many years ago. It's very easy to misremember such stuff. Friday (talk) 21:52, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

No, it isn't, I don't know about your mind, but my mind doesn't just make up things like that. The Ref Desk also isn't well served by challenging everything you possibly can, when you have absolutely no evidence that anything is wrong. This is especially true if you hold a grudge against people and use those challenges as a way to "get back at people". StuRat 21:57, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I have no grudge and no opinion whatsoever about you as a person. I do remember that you've put in inaccurate information before, and people have pointed this out to you. You're still doing it, so I'm telling you again. The ref desks aren't chat boards or panel discussions. Friday (talk) 22:06, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

And where am I giving inaccurate info, exactly ? If you're going to make claims like that, I'd like to see some evidence. StuRat 22:28, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, as I said, I don't buy your assertion that hunters would kill dozens of pigeons with a single shot. Neither your first nor your second explanation for where you got this were convincing to me. But I suppose this doesn't matter much- now we're essentially looking at your opinion versus mine, neither of which are reliable sources. I can't even say such a scenario is impossible, just that it sounds quite unlikely to me, and is far from a typical hunting result. Friday (talk) 22:42, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

That's because birds don't typically form a cloud of a million, giving hunters a target they can't miss. In the future, please don't challenge my statements unless you have some actual proof that they are wrong. And don't accuse me of giving inaccurate info unless you have proof, either. StuRat 02:49, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

As has been pointed out to you many many times before, your standard of "you must prove me wrong" is unreasonable. If you're going to make unlikely claims, please have references to back it up. Friday (talk) 02:52, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

The problem is your claim that my statements are "unlikely". You just arbitrarily decide that the claims of people you don't like are "unlikely" and put the burden of proof on them, when you have absolutely no basis for doubting the statement. And I'm sure your fellow deletionist agree that anything lacking a reference can be deleted arbitrarily (but then again, they think anything can be deleted arbitrarily, reference or not). That doesn't make it right or mean the majority of people agree. StuRat 15:29, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

The claims of 50 are citable, for example, see this discussion, so StuRats memory is probably correct. The problem is whether such claims are legitimate. Hunters, notoriously fishermen, embellish their accounts into ripping yarns. David D. (Talk) 03:08, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Since 24 would constitute "dozens", even if the claim of 50 was twice the reality, I would still be correct. StuRat 15:29, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Unless you're a baker! David D. (Talk) 17:08, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, I don't particularly like rising, but I do like to loaf around. StuRat 17:17, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

StuRat the last thing we need is another bun thread. David D. (Talk) 17:54, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Wow. I'm surprised enough that such a thing would be reported, whether or not it's really true. I may have my doubts, but if people are claiming that, they're claiming it. StuRat, sorry for being so skeptical about this. Friday (talk) 15:30, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for admitting your error. This could all have been avoided, however, had you done some research before challenging my statement. I wish you would learn from this mistake. StuRat 15:36, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "The greater good" sounds familiar...

Re: your initial response to my query on "Sanctity of Life" in relation to Warfare – I'm clarifying the topic as it more narrowly pertains to the individual draftee with a humanistic belief system faced with joining a combat unit rather than seeking a desk job or even conscientious objection. So I'm replying here rather than risking a diversion of the discussion there; to note: I recall the "greater good" argument (though unfortunately not much else!) from my high school history lessons back in the mid/late 1980s USA as a (the?) rationale for dropping the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in order to hasten the end of WWII. Did I get that right, do you suppose? -- Deborahjay 05:04, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that's right. The argument is that Japan would not have been willing to give an unconditional surrender otherwise. This would leave the US with the following options:

1) Accept a conditional surrender, which would have left the militaristic, imperial power structure in Japan, which likely would have resulted in another war with Japan, with nuclear weapons, a few years later, in which case millions would have died.

2) Continue conventional bombing, with the goals of destroying Japan's military, industrial, and agricultural production, resulting in the deaths from bombing and starvation of millions (almost all Japanese).

3) Perform a land invasion of Japan, which would have resulted in the deaths of millions of Japanese and hundreds of thousands of allies. Japanese school children were being taught to charge soldiers with sharpened sticks.

The US was in no mood to accept a conditional surrender. There was a contingency plan, however, in case the atomic bomb was not available by the time it was needed, which was a combo of options 2 and 3. Another concern was that the Soviet Union, which waited until Japan was weakened to declare war on Japan, would invade and conquer large portions of Japan, and then set it up as a communist state. As it is, they only managed to conquer a few northern islands.

So, to avoid using the atomic bomb would have likely resulted in more deaths. I do think their should have been Japanese POW observers present at the Trinity test, however, who then could have been returned to Japan to report on this new weapon. While I don't think this would bring about an immediate unconditional surrender, perhaps it would be enough to get the Japanese to give an unconditional surrender after Hiroshima, without the need for the second atomic bonb being dropped on Nagasaki. StuRat 12:36, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Free Beer

Thanks for the comment on my userpage, the joke got a good laugh out of me at work, which is always good :D Aetherfukz 14:30, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, just try not to laugh while the boss is announcing his goals for the year. StuRat 16:36, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Your puns

Just wanted to let you know, I think your puns are great! I especially like the one about the vandalism to the Ireland related article raising someone's "ire". Good stuff, dude! Dismas|^(talk) 20:12, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks ! StuRat 20:29, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding our exchanges above

Hello StuRat. After a short Wikibreak, and some time to reflect, I wish to apologise for the uncivil tone of some of my comments on this page and at the Ref Desk. I still strongly disagree with your interpretation of Ref Desk policy, culture and purpose, but there is no excuse for personalising a disagreement. Moreover, I realise my annoyance helped antagonise the dispute, rather than resolve it. I think this is a sign that it is time to take a complete break from the Ref Desk for a period, which I intend to do, though I expect I may choose to return at some point in the future. Happy editing. Rockpocket 07:42, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that. While I still completely reject arguments for authority and ad hominem attacks, believing that everyone should be allowed to present their arguments, with the readers deciding which is strongest (based on the relative strength of each argument and any supporting evidence), I admit that when someone is uncivil to me I find it difficult to remain civil to them, and I apologize for that. StuRat 13:42, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Requests for comment/StuRat 2

I would invite you to read through this again. Your statement that there's no consensus you've done anything wrong is rather surprising, given the kinds of comments on that RFC. You may also pay attention to the few who certified your response- 3 editors besides you, including two who've been blocked many times for disruption. Do this tell you anything? Friday (talk) 14:49, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

You are, of course, neglecting all the users who endorsed outside views favorable to my position, such as the 10 who endorsed "Outside view by User:Amarkov". StuRat 15:03, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

You mean the one I endorsed? I didn't miss that one. If you read carefully you may find that it deals with part of the issue, and not other parts. Friday (talk) 15:05, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

That's the one (must have been one of your more reasonable moments). The statements "The word 'deletionist', by itself, is not incivil", "And I do not see any evidence that StuRat is using it as a particularly derogatory term" seem quite favorable to my continued use of the term. If you think that position reflects a consensus that I should stop using the term, you are seriously mistaken. StuRat 15:12, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ingemar's antics in My Life as a Dog

Woof woof arf bark whine bark. (Equal parts not wanting to give too much away and being *gasp* a bit of a prude.) Clarityfiend 03:58, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

But I have an inquiring mind and I want to know ! For example, does Ingemar prefer Coke or Pepsi bottles ? :-) StuRat 16:19, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ref Desk

		The Barnstar of Good Humor
		For always making me chuckle at the Ref Desk! Adrian M. H. 19:52, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks ! StuRat 19:55, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, deserved for the "splitting hares" comment alone. A pun par excellence. Rockpocket 20:04, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Merci beaucoup. StuRat 20:06, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Responding to suicidal individuals

Hi StuRat. I would like to invite you to commenting upon or edit the new proposed policy Wikipedia:Responding to suicidal individuals now that it has finally come up for discussion on Wikipedia:Village pump (policy) and Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Policies. Hopefully we can reach consensus (or not) within a week or two. Thanks! S.dedalus 23:01, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I've commented, but it looks like they are more interested in avoiding legal liability than saving suicidal individuals. StuRat 16:09, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

---

[edit] Hiya Stu

Thanks for your comment on my talk page. I responded there, but also wanted to add a note here that I agree with your actions on the matter in question, which promoted a fair outcome, despite reasonbly-held differences in opinion on side matters. Regards. dr.ef.tymac 00:26, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

OK, thanks. I had seen your comments on your talk page and decided it was best not to respond. StuRat 00:50, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Don't worry, Clio will be back

This is just some drama to get everyone to tell her how much they love her and want her back. I'm sure she'll be back as soon as she's gotten enough attention (although it might very well be under a new screen name/sockpuppet). StuRat 04:31, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

- Since my comment is continually deleted from Clio's page, I will place it here. StuRat 05:30, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

...and she is now back, just as predicted. StuRat 06:02, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I'm really disappointed in you for this subthread

I'm at an utter loss to understand why you're still persisting in this namecalling and scorn towards Clio. It's petty, childish, disruptive, and really, really disgusting. —Steve Summit (talk) 01:46, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

My question is... is it allowed to remove comments you dislike from a discussion page? That's what I truly find... well, not elegant. I thought doing so was considered as vandalism. --Taraborn 22:49, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

I think that, currently, albeit not elegant, everyone has the right to remove stuff from their talk page, and do whatever they want with it.

However, I think there should exist pages to talk about the user that don't belong to the user, as article talk pages. A.Z. 22:52, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Unlike article pages, general talk page material should not be removed unless it violates some policy (like personal attacks). You can "refactor" comments, though, like moving them to a new section that's more appropriate, or archiving them when old. Just removing comments because you disagree is a definite no-no, however. User talk pages are a bit different, though. There the user has ownership and can remove anything they like, while others should probably restrict themselves to removing their own comments before they have a response. StuRat 10:39, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Aren't you tired yet?

I know I am. It's almost 3 AM here. A.Z. 05:52, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Only 2 AM here ! StuRat 05:55, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

So plenty of time till the Sun comes along! I for one am going to sleep. I have got to work tomorrow. Good night. A.Z. 05:59, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Good night. StuRat 06:00, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jews

Thanks for your common sense. For me personally, this comment wasn't deleted because I thought it was wrong though. I still think it is right - it was removed because it wasn't worth fighting offence.martianlostinspace 10:15, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

I believe you lined it out, as opposed to deleting it. This is what I recommend if you no longer believe a statement of yours to be correct. The existence of races is a very touchy issue. While it is true that there is considerable genetic overlap between races, or, to be more scientific, "gene pools", there are still genes which are far more common in certain gene pools than others. For example, the gene for Tay Sachs disease is more common in Eastern European Jews than in the general world population. I personally have no idea about "head size" genes, however. StuRat 20:56, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Your comment at the Ref Desk talk page

I responded to a good point you made. --Dweller 13:24, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll take a look now. StuRat 03:23, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I'm sorry :(

I must admit to being a dirty little vandal, I altered the desert question on the science desk so that everyone said dessert. i'm still giggling though. 213.48.15.234 13:21, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

No harm done, and it was worth a few laughs, too. StuRat 02:10, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] You and Friday

I'm being somewhat gossip here but I'm just very curious... I see you and User:Friday arguing (or discussing) many, many times, for example in the Reference desk guidelines. Why is that? Sorry for meddling. --Taraborn 21:39, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

The Ref Desk is where people ask questions and get answers from volunteers like me. Wikipedia:Reference desk/guidelines is where the rules for answering those questions are written down. Inclusionists, like me, welcome a wide variety of questions and answers. Others, like Friday, are apt to delete any question or answer they don't think "is encyclopedic". StuRat 15:30, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm being gossip too, but I believe Friday has once expressed the opinion that the reference desk would be better off if it were deleted. A.Z. 19:54, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bearnstar

		Bearnstar for a joke so unbelievably lame, it made me laugh
		I wanted to award you a barnstar for making me laugh, but unfortunately it was eaten by a bear. Rockpocket 05:52, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Does "eaten by a bear" mean it was deleted ? StuRat 15:32, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Haha. I hope that is a clever joke (or else paranoia really is getting the better of you). No, it doesn't mean that, the link explains. Rockpocket 17:11, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually, where have you been? I could have done with your support recently when a harmless joke I made was unilaterally removed. Typical, just when I need some inclusionist support, they all go awol. Rockpocket 17:13, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I had to do some actual work (gasp !). Do you have a link to the joke ? Is it too late to support it ? StuRat 01:55, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, too late, I'm afraid. Actually it wasn't the removal itself that I was bothered with (a joke is a joke, and I'm not about to claim something so flippant deserves to remain if another editor thinks it inappropriate) it was the unwarranted accusation in the edit summary of the removal.

By the way, Loomis is a hair's breadth away from being indef blocked again. I'm lobbying to give him one last chance, though I'm not sure it will carry. I don't know if you have any influence with him, or if you even care, but if you do it really would be helpful if you could impress on him that it he has a stark choice to make. Rightly or wrongly, fair or unfair, this is how it is and he has got to accept that or he will be unwelcome here for an indefinite period. Rockpocket 08:35, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Please stop feeding the trolls, or at least one particular troll

Dunno if you noticed, but Light current has been up to his juvenile behavior again. I think your clever remarks in response to his trolling only encourage him. Would you mind taking particular care not to feed the trolls, when the troll is him? Or, if you actually know this kid, would you mind having a word with him? There are plenty of web sites where they encourage people to act like 12-year-olds, but Wikipedia isn't really meant to be one of them. Friday (talk) 16:54, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Colour Inkjet Refill

Hello. When I refill an HP 28 Colour Cartridge that is low on ink as indicated to me on my computer, I can only refill about 1 mL of each of the three colours (magenta, cyan, and yellow). The cartridge says it can hold up to 8 mL. Why can't I refill 8 mL of each colour? Thanks. --Mayfare 23:58, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Just speculation, but, if it's an airtight container and you are using a needle to inject new ink, you will need to draw air out to allow room for the new ink. StuRat 01:21, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your speculation, StuRat. However, I am not sure if my colour ink cartridge is airtight. I went on HP's website and couldn't find any information on it. I even tried searching on Google. No luck there. Does anybody know if an HP 28 Colour Cartridge airtight? --Mayfare 02:45, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Why not do an experiment and use the needle to draw some air out first, and see if that doesn't allow you to inject more ink ? StuRat 02:55, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

I experimented. Drawing out colour ink does not allow me to inject more colour ink. Why can't I refill 8 mL of each colour. --Mayfare 00:45, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I was suggesting you draw out air to make room for the new ink. Drawing out old ink to make room for new ink is rather self defeating. Also, if there is still ink in the cartridges, perhaps that isn't the problem. For example, printer cartridges not used for a while can get a dried out plug in the ink delivery system. StuRat 05:05, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, my bad. I meant to say that I tried to draw out air but I drew out colour ink instead. --Mayfare 22:21, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Useful article to be deleted

Perhaps you want to vote here. A.Z. 17:48, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know, I've added my comments there. StuRat

[edit] Speedy tagged Image

There is no source information on the image page, so it does not follow the image use policy and meets criterion I4 of the criteria for speedy deletion. In a nutshell, the image use policy requires that the copyright status of images is verifiable. Without source information, it's impossible to do so. For example, the image could have been an artist's impression of the event, drawn on its centenary.

If you know where it came from, please could you fill in the following template and add it to the image page.

{{Information
| Description = 
|      Source = 
|        Date = 
|    Location = 
|      Author = 
|  Permission = 
}}

Let me know if you need further clarification of the policy. Thanks - Papa November 1 23:03, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Some googling found the source. I've added it to the image page, restored it to the article and removed the speedy tag. Papa November 1 10:23, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Election for the Board of Trustees

Are you going to vote? You can see the candidates here and you can endorse them here. A.Z. 23:16, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

It looks like the endorsement period is closed. I would have endorsed User:Kingboyk for his commitment to democratic means (versus the current group of despots we have as Admins) and User:^demon for his commitment to re-allow contributions through anonymous proxy servers. (Users who wish to contribute anonymously should be allowed to do so.) StuRat 00:58, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

You can still vote for them. Both have got enough endorsements, unlike the candidate that I have endorsed, Jouster, for the reasons expressed on his user page. A.Z. 03:35, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Where do I go to vote ? StuRat 03:38, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't know, but I guess the page hasn't been created yet or there is no link to it. According to this timeline, voting starts next thursday. A.Z. 03:46, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I voted, but I don't think the results are in yet. StuRat 23:50, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

It seems that they'll announce the results tomorrow. A.Z. 21:40, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Incarated"

Thanks for the chuckle, StuRat. Bielle 23:30, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome ! StuRat 23:35, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Discussion" to "talk"

Hi, StuRat. Do you want to participate in this discussion? A.Z. 23:01, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I voted in favor of this change to the tab labels. StuRat 23:49, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Integrin

You're a member of WikiProject General Audience. I think that project is not working right now, but it's a great idea and a needed project. I think I may join it.

There's a discussion on the Integrin article talk page in which I'm defending that the article be more accessible to general audience. Participate, if you wish! A.Z. 03:31, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll take a look. StuRat 07:59, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Administrators and the stanford prison experiment

I'm looking for a diff by yours where you compared administrator corruption to what happened to students during the stanford prison experiment. Do you happen to know where is that diff? A.Z. 23:32, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

It was the 6th comment in this thread: User_talk:StuRat/archive4#Imagine.21_redux. StuRat 04:53, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I agree with the comparison, and I am referring to that diff in an essay I'm writing (linked from my user page, and that is supposed to be my definitive essay about giving sysop tools to everyone).

I bought a book by the leader of the Stanford prison experiment, called The Lucifer Effect: Understanding How Good People Turn Evil. I read some parts of the book, but I see it will be somewhat disturbing to read it entirely. I can see Wikipedia all over it. In fact, I was just reading the article about the Stanford prison experiment today, and I realized you can easily substitute guards for administrators and prisoners for editors. A.Z. 05:25, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

For a more ominous comparison, there are Nazi war criminals. There were many people who behaved in a perfectly decent manner both before and after the war, but who calmly assisted in genocide during the war. Clearly, when somebody in authority tells people "it's OK to kill those subhumans", a lot of people go along willingly, even cheerfully. I wouldn't use this is your essay, however, as people tend to immediately ignore any comparison with Nazis as Godwin's Law. Personally, I think we have much to learn from that period, to ensure that it never happens again. StuRat 16:34, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Interesting. That book does talk about the nazis as well. StuRat, I would like that you read my essay and perhaps comment about it. I decided already which system for giving admin tools I support. It is simple and it doesn't require structural changes. The RfA reform page will probably move on now because an user decided to put an end to it with a vote. A.Z. 05:02, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

OK, I added my comments. StuRat 17:43, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Matrixism

I see no evidence that this page is protected. A redirect should be doable. Friday (talk) 17:19, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Maybe it's not for Admins, but if I try to edit it I get dumped onto a page that says "This page has been protected to prevent creation." StuRat 17:22, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Some nonstandard method of protection perhaps? Weird.. Does it say anything that might give a clue how it's protected? Friday (talk) 17:25, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Its this new way of salting pages. You transclude the article in Wikipedia:Protected titles, which is itself protected with the "cascading" option enabled). It took me a while to work out how this worked too. Good of them the lets the troops know eh? Rockpocket 17:35, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

"Salting" ? As in "plow the ground with salt so nothing can ever grow there again" as the Romans did in Carthage ? Now that we know how it's done, can either of you undo it so I can do as the AFD discussion concluded (move and redirect to The Matrix). StuRat 17:40, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

WP:SALT. Are you planning to merge the info into The Matrix or just redirect to the article as is? Rockpocket 17:43, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Merge and redirect, as was the conclusion of the AFD discussion. I would create a new section named "Matrixism as a real religion" and copy the content there from the user page where it currently resides. StuRat 17:46, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, StuRat, but a more recent DRV, see Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2007 March 19, endorsed the deletion. I'm not about to over-rule that considering how much administrative activity there has been on this article in the past. Here is what I will do, though. If you choose to add the Matrixism material to the Matrix article and it is accepted there for a week or two without significant challenge, then I will unsalt and redirect to there. However, if the material is sufficiently non-notable and unverified as to not sruvive as an article, it is likely that will also be the case as a subsection of the Matrix. Rockpocket 18:20, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't see how the conclusion of the first ~vote can just be ignored because there was a later discussion. Do those opinions not matter any more ? Also, I think often people say "delete" as a lazy way of saying "get rid of that article, but I don't care what happens to the content". It's something like when people don't have car blinkers on, does that mean they aren't making a turn or that they are just too lazy to put on the blinker ? I think people should have to explicitly say "destroy the content and don't ever let it be placed anywhere in Wikipedia", if that's what they really mean. As for cars, a "going straight" signal might help there. I've added the content to The Matrix (series). StuRat 19:15, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

By your own argument, why should a later discussion be ignored because there is a former? Besides, I'm not "ignoring" the first Afd, but there is no point unsalting if there is no consensus for the material to be kept anywhere in Wikipedia. The material looks fine to me in its current place. If there is no major objections to its notability and verifiability by this time next week, I will unsalt and redirect Matrixism to that article. Rockpocket 19:25, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

OK. StuRat 19:42, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Great. And on the off-chance I forget, do remind me of this next week. Rockpocket 19:53, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Done. Rockpocket 18:13, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I've now changed the Matrixism redirect to point to the specific section. StuRat 18:42, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Then you should probably leave a hidden note by the section heading noting that per WP:REDIRECT, otherwise someone may change the wording of the heading and the redirect would be lost. Rockpocket 18:46, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Good idea, and I've now done so, but the redirect wouldn't be totally lost if the section title was changed. In that case, the redirect just reverts to the top of the article. StuRat 20:07, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hobo etc....

Thanks for the info, loved the song in the nineties but never realised what it was all about...! SietskeEN 12:56, 24 August 2007 (UTC) (But it is a lot less decent than I expected it to be... :-O )

You're quite welcome ! StuRat 13:13, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] you don't happen to understand lojban

do you?lucid 03:00, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

No, but then again, I rather enjoy the ambiguous nature of English words, since that allows for the formation of puns. StuRat 03:30, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Way to read a sentence that I had intended to come off as a joke with an extremely serious tone and make a comment about the ambiguity present in the english language, thus forcing me to make a sentence that is completely unambiguous. Until you find a way to point out the ambiguity --lucid 03:44, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, since you wrote "english" in lower case, you must not mean the language, but rather the term which means "spin" as in "put some english on the ball". Therefore, your comment regards the "spin language", AKA, the language of politicians. :-) StuRat 03:52, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Do you play Six degrees of separation, by chance? --lucid 04:12, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Not since Kevin Bacon filed that restraining order. :-) StuRat 04:27, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstar

		The Working Man's Barnstar
		For your RD work Pheonix15 20:10, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks ! StuRat 20:14, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Matrixism (2)

Hi,

Be a little more careful there -- that's just the first of several AfDs on the topic. The content was userfied to me as part of a DRV compromise six months ago. I'm not sure yet whether I'll revert your merge, but be aware that a redirect from my userspace to the article is forbidden, per CSD R2. I'll probably just restore the userpage as it was. Good effort, but you should probably check with someone before doing that, rather than after. Best wishes, Xoloz 22:18, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

I did, we had a Ref Desk discussion which was then continued up above on this page. Admin User:Rockpocket agreed to "unsalt" the locked page so I could add the redirect after the content went unchallenged for a week. StuRat 22:27, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Never mind... I see now what you've done. I like the merge, but how did you preserve the attribution history, because my userpage is still as it was? Xoloz 22:21, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

I didn't preserve the attribution history. If you know of a way to do so, please, by all means, be my guest. StuRat 22:27, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Fixed. :) You'll notice this has changed the history of the redirect -- the people who wrote the content that you merged now receive credit in that history. I realize this situation was complicated, but remember that bigger merges require the merging of the article history as well, which needs the use of admin tools. The GFDL demands that the attribution history be retained. Best wishes, Xoloz 22:38, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Medical advice on the Ref Desk

StuRat, please try to avoid offering medical advice on the Reference Desks as you did in this thread [8]. It's one of those things that Just Isn't Done around here. While I appreciate that you're just trying to help, giving a questioner a list of diagnoses for his symptoms isn't appropriate. Even offering opinions as to whether or not a condition is serious or dangerous isn't a good idea; giving the impression that we'll always tell people if their symptoms are serious may lead questioners to (inappropriately) rely on those evaluations.

Your cooperation in the future is appreciated, and your continued contributions to the Reference Desks are welcomed. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:05, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

I would add that the rule is as much there to protect you as it is to protect Wikipedia. Practicing medicine without a license is illegal in almost every country in the world. If someone comes to harm because of your advice - then aside from moral and ethical issues, you could easily end up bankrupt and in jail - and it's just not worth the risk. Sneaky tricks like offering links to pages you also wrote outside of Wikipedia is not going to help you there. I'm not going to let this rest here. If you won't obey the spirit of the community rules - we'll have to change the wording of the rule so it's not allowed. Wikiversity should also disallow the offering of medical and legal advice and if we can't settle this amicably - I'll have to start campaigning for similar rules there. But it would be much, MUCH better for the community if you'd please just stick to the spirit of the guidelines. As it is, if you keep this up you'll be continually upsetting about 80% of your friends here at the help desk - and causing a rift in the community for the other 20%. Please - don't do this. SteveBaker 01:18, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Stu: I have this terrible pain whenever I twist my arm around this way. What should I do? Edison 16:28, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

I get a similar pain whenever I try to have a civil, logical conversation with many of the Admins here, although the pain isn't in my arm. StuRat 18:35, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] wunderground.com

Thanks for recommending Weather Underground in WP:RD/C. Weather.com was killing me on dialup, and http://forecast.weather.gov/ doesn't have the hourly forecast. Wunderground seems to beat the both. What a great site. / edg ☺ ★ 13:19, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

You're quite welcome, glad you like it ! StuRat 13:26, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Wunderground is also one of my favourite sites, and I'm so glad to see it being recommended :) Skittle 12:03, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Seriously?

"There are some serious nutjobs there, like Clio, who seem to be not only allowed, but actually encouraged, to viciously attack others by the Admins there (they block or ban anyone who criticizes her). I'd sure hate to see that lot migrate over here.". Seriously? I've seen all sorts of people criticize Clio, none of them got blocked. I've criticized her myself, without getting blocked. Do you think Loomis got indefinitely blocked for criticizing Clio? Do you think the 12 hour block you received here was for criticizing Clio? Or which blocks and bans were you talking about? Also, who are the other serious nutjobs? ---Sluzzelin talk 00:50, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I am serious. Clio has said the same and worse (like her rant today on the people at Wikiversity which she calls "the realm of the stupid, the second-rate, the vicious and the petty-minded"), but rarely even gets chastised by an Admin, much less blocked, while anyone who aimed such comments at her gets chastised immediately and blocked or banned eventually. I don't want to discuss the "other serious nutjobs" here, but applying the strictest possible interpretation of Wikipedia policies (many of which clearly aren't applicable at all to the Ref Desk, but are meant for articles only), as well as making up absurd arguments such as us being arrested for practicing medicine without a license or being guilty of posting SPAM for providing a link to a sister project, might give you some clues as to what I'm talking about. The prevalence of such completely illogical arguments shakes my faith in Wikipedia. I have long ago lost faith in the "Admins for life" concept. StuRat 01:27, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi StuRat. I missed Clio's little dig at you at the time, just noticing it now. I have reminded her of WP:NPA. Likewise, you should be aware that "posting personal attacks or defamation off-Wikipedia is harmful to the community and to an editor's relationship with it... Such attacks can be regarded as aggravating factors by administrators". If you are going to complain about the attacks of others, calling them a "nutjob" from the saftey of another site is unlikely to garner much sympathy for you. As i said, just a friendly notice... Rockpocket 02:29, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

First, that policy only applies to sites "not under the control of the Wikimedia Foundation", not Wikiversity. Second, I've not provided any links to attacks, although you and others have (does that make you in violation of the policy ?). Finally, your "reminder" to Clio couldn't have possibly been worded any softer, along with the "please feel free to remove this" language. Why can't you, or any other Admin, ever be firm with her, and say something like "this language will not be tolerated" ? You have absolutely no problem saying that to others when they behave as she does. StuRat 19:31, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Also, why doesn't the "you have no right to complain because you do it too" logic ever apply to Clio ? More favoritism at work ? StuRat 19:37, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Firstly that part that is under dispute is the 3RR on removing attack links. Secondly, that quote does not explicitly relate to links, the following subsection is about external links. The part I quoted speaks for itself: "posting personal attacks or defamation off-Wikipedia is harmful to the community." The fact that you appear to acknowledge you made a personal attack, and instead choose to wikilawyer over whether policy explicitly forbids it speaks volumes. How about you just stop doing it? Namecalling has no place on any wiki-project, that applies to you and Clio. She is aware of that, now you are too.

Finally, I find that Clio is more responsive to friendly notices. Unlike certain other editors, she does not strive to wikilawyer around every warning and play games with semantics. She either accepts it or disputes it, I don't care which, as long as she doesn't continue doing it. You, on the other hand, appear to do anything you can to bend the rules to suit your purposes, even to the extent of jumping ship and making attacks from the apparent safety of Wikiversity. If that continues I will consider it "an aggravating factor". Oh, and just in case you were not aware. Please feel free to remove this notice from you page if you desire. Rockpocket 20:01, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

1) You seem to have responded too quickly. I figured out which section you had linked to and revised my comments accordingly, but you responded to the old comments. Please reread my current comments and respond accordingly.

2) She may apologize or not (she never has apologized to me), but in either case she does continue with the insults. I expect to see a continuing chain of insults from her here, with no action taken against her (in fact, the continuing chain of insults is because no firm action is ever taken against her). She has now moved to placing insults on Wikiversity, as well (she just said she "despises" me and "pities" Lewis).

3) You don't seem to have answered why the "you have no right to complain because you do it too" logic doesn't ever apply to Clio. StuRat 04:19, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Matrixism Deleted by Rogue Administrator

The Matrixism re-direct and section on Matrixism in The Matrix (series) were summarily deleted by User:Philwelch. They have been restored (temporarily?) by User:Neil but I imagine this is not the end and you might want to chime in on the subject. Philwelch's administrator status is apparently under arbitration for various violations you might want to have a say there also. 207.69.139.144 15:03, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, do you have any links to where his status is being discussed ? Also, did you just forget to log in or do you prefer to remain anonymous ? StuRat 17:17, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Please note that the proper spelling is "rouge." Edison (talk) 05:25, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

If I ever incorrectly spell "rogue" as "rouge", you will be able to tell from my apparent blushing as well as the stampede of people telling me I messed up. :-) StuRat (talk) 18:48, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Isochoric process now available to normal people

Hi, StuRat. I would like to know your opinions on my changes to this article. I believe I have improved it. I think it was an instance of experts keeping it from being readable to normal people. You may reply on the article talk page, if you wish. A.Z. 08:00, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I made some changes and comments (basically, I feel it's important to have material for both the general and technical audiences). StuRat 14:44, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I see your point. I thought your changes were an improvement. A.Z. 02:52, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, and let me know if any other articles need a review for a general audience. StuRat 02:55, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Simple Math Question -- Need Help -- Leap Years (?)

To: User talk:StuRat and User talk:Lomn

From: User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro

Re: Wikipedia:Reference desk/Mathematics#Simple Math Question -- Need Help -- Leap Years (?)

Can someone please help me with this simple math calculation? It can't understand it and it's driving me crazy. Any insight is appreciated. Thanks.

• Person A is born on 12/18/1946 and dies on 03/21/1994
• Person B is born on 12/18/1904 and dies on 03/20/1952

[edit] Method One

According to Microsoft Excel: A lived 17,260 days and B lived 17,259 days.

That seems to make "sense" since ... although in different calendar years ... they were both born on the same "day" (December 18) but Person A lived an extra day in March (dying on March 21 instead of March 20) while Person B did not live for that extra day in March (dying on March 20 instead of March 21). So, it makes sense that the March 21 decedent (Person A) has lived one extra day more than the March 20 decedent (Person B) ... that is, Person A lived 17,260 days which is one day more than Person B who lived 17,259 days.

So, the only thing that is truly "different" between Person A and B is ... the actual calendar years that they lived through ... and thus "how many leap years / leap days did each person live through." (I think?)

Person A has lived through 12 leap days: in 1948, 1952, 1956, 1960, 1964, 1968, 1972, 1976, 1980, 1984, 1988, and 1992.

Person B has lived through 12 leap days: in 1908, 1912, 1916, 1920, 1924, 1928, 1932, 1936, 1940, 1944, 1948, and 1952.

Using Method One (above), Person A lived one extra day more than Person B.

[edit] Method Two

Person A: From December 18, 1946 to December 18, 1993 is exactly 47 years. So, A celebrates his 47th birthday. The date of death on March 21, 1994 is 93 days after the birthday. (using Excel or viewing a calendar)

Person B: From December 18, 1904 to December 18, 1951 is exactly 47 years. So, B celebrates his 47th birthday. The date of death on March 20, 1952 is 93 days after the birthday. (using Excel or viewing a calendar)

Using Method Two (above), Person A lives 47 years and 93 days. Person B also lives 47 years and 93 days. (There is no "one day" difference.)

[edit] Method Three

I tried to use the Wikipedia template located at: Template:age in years and days.

Typing in these dates and values yields the following results:

Person A:

{{age in years and days|1946|12|18|1994|03|21}}

yields:

&0000000000000047.00000047 years, &0000000000000093.00000093 days

Person B:

{{age in years and days|1904|12|18|1952|03|20}}

yields:

&0000000000000047.00000047 years, &0000000000000093.00000093 days

So, Method Three (above) agrees with Method Two (above) ... Person A and Person B died at exactly the same age.

[edit] Method Four

I also tried to use the Wikipedia template located at: Template:age in days.

Typing in these dates and values yields the following results:

Person A:

{{age in days|1946|12|18|1994|03|21}}

yields:

17260

Person B:

{{age in days|1904|12|18|1952|03|20}}

yields:

17259

So, Method Four (above) agrees with Method One (above) ... Person A and Person B did not die at exactly the same age, but one day off.

[edit] Question

Can anyone help me understand the difference / distinction / discrepancy between these four methods? I seem to be missing something, but I cannot figure out what. Thanks. Where is my reasoning flawed?

Method One and Four agree that "A" lives one day longer than "B". (17,260 versus 17,259)

Methods Two and Three agree that "A" and "B" live exactly the same length of time. (47 years and 93 days)

So, perhaps the word "year" means a different thing for Person A than it does for Person B?

That is, the word "year" means 365 days in some cases ... but it means 366 days in some other (leap-year) cases.

That might seem to cause the discrepancy.

However, Person "A" has lived during 12 leap years/days ... and Person "B" has also lived during 12 leap year/days.

Thus, for both persons, the word "year" means 366 days in 12 years of their lives ... and the word "year" means 365 days in the other 36 years of their lives. They have both lived through 12 leap years and 35 normal years (thus, a birthday of 47 years total) ... plus a fractional piece of yet another (i.e., their 48th) year.

Can anyone help me understand the difference / distinction / discrepancy between these four methods? I seem to be missing something, but I cannot figure out what.

Where is my thinking flawed? Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro 05:59, 25 September 2007 (UTC))

All the methods are correct, but methods 1 and 4 are more useful for comparing ages. The reason is that methods 2 and 3 each count "47 years", but those years have variable lengths, some being leap years and some not. As it works out, the 47 years between 12/18/1946 and 12/18/1993 contain 12 leap days (48, 52, 56, 60, 64, 68, 72, 76, 80, 84, 88, 92) while the 47 years between 12/18/1904 and 12/18/1951 contain 11 leap days (08, 12, 16, 20, 24, 28, 32, 36, 40, 44, 48). Note that 1952 is not in the 47 year period in the second case. StuRat 07:01, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Incidentally, had methods 2 and 3 counted from death back in time, the 47 years in each period both would have 12 leap years: 03/21/1947 to 03/21/1994 (48, 52, 56, 60, 64, 68, 72, 76, 80, 84, 88, 92) and 03/20/1905 to 03/20/1952 (08, 12, 16, 20, 24, 28, 32, 36, 40, 44, 48, 52). The number of additional days would be 93 from 12/18/1946 to 03/21/1947 but only 92 from 12/18/1904 to 03/20/1905. Thus, you would get ages of 47 years, 93 days and 47 years, 92 days, respectively. The lesson ? Don't use variable sized units if you want an accurate result. StuRat 07:19, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi, StuRat. Thank you for your reply to my question posted on the Math Help Desk (referenced aboved). I appreciate it. However, I am confused now more than ever. Can you please help me understand this situation? It's driving me nuts. Thanks so much. If you like, please start your explanation from scratch -- so that I can follow it more easily. However, I thought it was important to note that both people (A and B) lived through 12 leap days in the course of their lives. At some point, you said that one guy only had 11 leap days, while the other had 12. (You lost me there.) Then, you said, if we count "backwards" (from death to birth), then they both have 12 leap days in their lifetimes. (Huh? You lost me there again.) So, I am very lost lost (= lost squared). Ha ha. Would you mind explaining this again, starting from scratch? Thanks a lot. By the way, to clarify confusion: when you say the word "year", please indicate if you mean a calendar year (January 1 to December 31 of 1962, for example) ... or if you mean a full year of the person's life (December 18, 1957 to December 18, 1958, for example). Thanks again for your time and patience. Please reply at my Talk Page: User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro. (Joseph A. Spadaro 14:44, 25 September 2007 (UTC))

Follow-up. The issue is that the 1952 leap day is not counted as part of a "year", but as a separate day, using methods 2 and 3. The period used for the final year is 12/18/1950 to 12/18/1951, which does not include February 29, 1952. Thus you have an extra leap day, not part of the "47 years". This doesn't happen with the other person because his year of death, 1994, was not a leap year. So, while both people had 12 leap days in their lives, methods 2 and 3 only count, for the person who died in 1952, 11 of those in the "years" and one as a separate day, while they count all 12 of those in the "years" and none as a separate day, for the person who died in 1994. StuRat 15:08, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Here's a way we can simplify the problem, leave off the first 44 years, which contain 11 leap days in either case:

{{age in years and days|1904|12|18|1948|12|18}} =

&0000000000000044.00000044 years, &-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1.0000000 days

{{age in years and days|1946|12|18|1990|12|18}} = &0000000000000044.00000044 years, &-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1.0000000 days

{{age in days|1904|12|18|1948|12|18}} =

16071

{{age in days|1946|12|18|1990|12|18}} = 16071

This leaves us with the portion that contains the "discrepancy":

{{age in years and days|1948|12|18|1952|03|20}} =

&0000000000000003.0000003 years, &0000000000000093.00000093 days

{{age in years and days|1990|12|18|1994|03|21}} = &0000000000000003.0000003 years, &0000000000000093.00000093 days

{{age in days|1948|12|18|1952|03|20}} =

1188

{{age in days|1990|12|18|1994|03|21}} = 1189

Now, let's break down how those calcs are done:

{{age in days|1948|12|18|1949|12|18}} = 365

{{age in days|1949|12|18|1950|12|18}} = 365

{{age in days|1950|12|18|1951|12|18}} = 365

{{age in days|1951|12|18|1952|03|20}} = 93 <- Leap day included

{{age in days|1990|12|18|1991|12|18}} = 365

{{age in days|1991|12|18|1992|12|18}} = 366 <- Leap day included

{{age in days|1992|12|18|1993|12|18}} = 365

{{age in days|1993|12|18|1994|03|21}} = 93

So, by shifting the leap day out of one of the "years" and into the days counted separately, it appears that an equal length of time has passed, when, in fact, the 2nd interval is a day longer. Note that all ranges were assumed to be from noon on the starting day to noon on the ending day (or from the same time on both days, in any case). StuRat 16:26, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm not StuRat, but perhaps I can help as well. You've hit on the problem on the RefDesk as well as here:

• year is used as a term meaning "sometimes 365 days and sometimes 366 days, starting from an arbitrary point" (in this case, that point is Dec 18)

This gives you two different meanings of the word "year" scattered across your examples, intermingled in the final answer, with no further distinction given. That ambiguity is why you get the varied results for "years + days lived" even though it's quite easy to agree that persons A and B lived a different number of days.

Does that clarify the issue, or are you looking for a more explicit breakdown? — Lomn 13:57, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks to you both. I appreciate the thorough explanations. I need a chance to read through them carefully and digest them. I will see if I understand this situation, or not, and get back to you as appropriate. Many thanks again. This problem was really stumping me, and I assume that your thorough explanations will make sense of it, after I have had a chance to read/digest/process them. Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro 17:34, 6 October 2007 (UTC))

OK, once you get a chance to look it all over, please let me know if it makes sense. The source of the problem seems to be defining a year as anything other than a calendar year (Jan 1 - Dec 31), which means leap days may, or may not, be included, depending on which days are defined as the "year" and which are the extra days. StuRat 12:51, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RD: Decline

I have replied to your response in the Reference desk question "Decline". --Taraborn 15:59, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Can you provide a link or at least tell me which Reference Desk ? StuRat 17:24, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I think Taraborn is referring to Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities#Decline. - hydnjo talk 02:34, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Yea, I managed to find it on my own. Thanks. StuRat 04:33, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Non-Euclidean?

Would you consider editing a paragraph in Isaac Titsingh?

"Titsingh returned to Europe where, among several other "firsts", he became the first to introduce the unique Wasan/Euclidean mathematics^[1] of sangaku to the West.^[2]...link to sangaku overview, Princeton University...link to sangaku explanation -- digitized photos and geometry graphics (text in Dutch)'

What about supplementing this text with something like these two sentences as an in-line footnote?

Maths arising independent of any Greek foundation could and did develop a geometry un-inflected by the input of Euclid's systemic approach. And yet, the term "non-Euclidean" would be misleading or wrongly applicable to Wasan or sangaku because the modern idea of alternatives to the Euclidean proofs are inextricably intertwined with an intellectual exercise which involves modifying the basic postulates of observed reality.

I'm inclined to think that this isn't helpful -- rather more of a distraction? Maybe not .... What do you think? --Ooperhoofd 18:56, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

I tend to agree. Is "un-inflected" supposed to mean "uninfluenced" ? If so, that's an odd way to say it. Also, I'd say "mathematics", not "maths", since "maths" sounds strange in American English, where "mathematics" is abbreviated as "math". Finally, may I ask why you came to me with this request ? I would seem to be an odd choice. StuRat 20:38, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Sorry to have presented an unwelcome query .... I simply wanted to expand a one-sentence paragraph which, I suppose, does already stand well enough on its own. I had thought you might have a valuable perspective which could help make the article better. A difficult-to-parse sequence led to my mistaken impression that you could embody a somewhat rare blend of interests in pre-Meiji Japanese history and in non-Japanese Euclidean geometry.

As for why I contacted you now: It just happens that in the past week, Nik42 made an uncommonly crisp and insightful comment at Talk:Japanese era name; and when I followed that user-link, I stumbled across your user-name. No doubt you've forgotten, but in 2006, you were asking Nik42 about an obscure Edo period controversy:

• Kan'ei 6 (1627): The "Purple Clothes Incident" (紫衣事件, shi-e jiken): The Emperor was accused of having bestowed honorific purple garments to more than ten priests despite the shogun's edict which banned them for two years (probably in order to break the bond between the Emperor and religious circles). The shogunate intervened making the bestowing of the garments invalid.

For some time, this enigmatic subject has been on my short list of things to look into a bit further ... and then I noticed that your user page mentions Euclidean distance as one of the articles in which you felt your contribution was noteworthy. Ergo, I added 2+2 and came up with a wrong sum. It was all a bit of a stretch, I know; but there you have it. I took a chance, but it didn't work out as well as I'd hoped.

It all had to do with improving Isaac Titsingh. What more can I say? This appears to be one of those times when I'm learning the hard way .... --Ooperhoofd 06:53, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

OK, it makes sense now. I do indeed remember those edits, although, until now, I never thought of there being any link between them. Well, no harm done, and I hope my suggestions on that paragraph are helpful. StuRat 12:40, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Carpal tunnel syndrome

I seem to be suffering from said affliction (oh no, a medical diagnosis, ban him immediately !). Therefore, I have been, and will continue to be, less active until it heals. See you later my friends (and enemies). StuRat 16:16, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Get well soon (is that medical advice?) & do come here when you can - you are very much appreciated. DuncanHill 17:00, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks ! It has reduced to a level where I can contribute a bit. StuRat 17:18, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A.Z.'s block

I thought I would reply here, rather than on Dmcdevit‎'s talkpage. Yes, the reasoning, evidence and discussion leading to many of ArbCom's decisions are non transparent. By the very nature of this information it is sometimes difficult to know exactly why, but in the few occasions I have been privy to information restricted by ArbCom, it was relating to personal identifying details of editors and/or information that compromises the security of editors. Whether that is a good or bad thing, whether than we like it or not is somewhat beside the point. WP is not a democracy, and everthing is not automatically open for community discussion and decision based on democreatic principles. Jimbo made that clear when he first appointed ArbCom: "The Arbitration Committee [...] can impose a solution that I'll consider to be binding, with of course the exception that I reserve the right of executive clemency and indeed even to dissolve the whole thing if it turns out to be a disaster" In other words, ArbCom can make decisions without justifying itself the community and only Jimbo himself can over-rule this. No amount of demanding ArbCom listen to consensus will change that. So, does ArbCom have the potential issue unfair blocks? Of course it does. Is this particular block unfair. Who knows? You and I are not privy to the facts, so we can't know. Maybe will will never be privy to the facts, so we will never be able to know. That is simply something we have to accept if we wish to remain part of this community.

The second issues it that there has been a few recent blocks of so-called "pro-paedophilia advocates" (and I use that term because thats is what others have accused them of being, not because I consider them to be that, personally). I do get the feeling that there is a kind of hysteria around here that people who don't espouse the established "paedophila is bad" line are themselves paedophiles, and paedophiles must be blocked. I don't know if there is any official sanction of that (though Jimbo generally appears to have little patience for such individuals). I personally don't agree with that reasoning . With respect to encyclopaedic content, a "pro-paedophilia advocate" is no more a concern to me than an "anti-paedophilia advocate" - WP is not a place for any type of advocacy. But I am not WP's legal or PR counsel and wouldn't have to deal with the fallout if the project was implicated in an online grooming scandal. Everyone is welcome to contributed to WP, but in reality, does that mean we should openly welcome self identifying paedophiles and permit them to interact with children? Is that really in the long term interests of the encyclopaedia? I guess what I am trying to say is that while its all well and fine to discuss these issues in purely academic terms, but people like ArbCom and Jimbo have strategic, legal and ethical considerations that we don't. To conclude, I, again personally, don't believe A.Z.'s edits have demonstrated advocacy. However, his editing style has does mean he tends to offer personal opinion and couch things in terms of his beliefs. In the culture of low tolerance for non-conformist views on this issue, he was skating on thin ice. I and others tried to warn him of this a few weeks back, but to little avail. I hope his appeal is successful, but I'm not holding my breath. Rockpocket 19:55, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

This seems like a horrid way to conduct business. How are we to know if we should object to the block (to Jimbo Wales) and ask him to overrule the ArbComm if everything they do is secret ? It's one thing to say "this isn't a democracy", but denying the "common people" even with the most basic info of who decided to impose a block, for how long, and for what reason, seriously undermines my confidence in "the system". As for A.Z., I've seen no evidence that he is personally a pedophile, and haven't even seen any evidence that he holds pro-pedophile views. The edits of his I've seen so far appear to be rather balanced on the issue. Do you have any other edits you can point out that I may have missed ? StuRat 20:10, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Also, do you have any info on the block and locking of User:A.Z.'s talk page ? Were these actions actually requested by the Arb Comm or is User:Dmcdevit acting on his own ? (How do I find out who locked the page ?). StuRat 20:52, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I see the block of his talk page was done by User:JzG, who, strangely, doesn't even have a user page of his own. StuRat 20:56, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Back to front:

• JzG deleted his own user page in September per WP:CSD#G7. I don't know the reasons for protecting his page apart from his justification "Arbs can write, and A.Z. really does not need the drama in a sensitive case like this.". I'm guessing it because demands for information were not constructive, the real relevant informed discussions need to take place privately and thus anyone with anything to say should send it to ArbCom. They tried asking people to do that, but they continued to protest of A.Z.'s talk page.
• I'm the dark about this as much as you. Dmcdevit's comments seems to suggest he was acting "for and on behalf of" ArbCom and thus I don't see any reason to believe he being untruthful about that. Whether ArbCom is aware of something we are not, or have made a decision based on the same information we have, I don't know. If it is the former, was are not in a position to criticize their decision, if it is the latter, then I think it is a poor decision. Based on my experience, I'm guessing it is the former.
• I don't have any specific edits of A.Z.'s to hand, I'll see what I can find later. However, he generally espoused the view that adult-child sex isn't necessarily child sex abuse and was involved in efforts to distinguish the two from each other in article space. Those sort of arguments are not atypical among the pro-paedophilia lobby during attempts to POV-fork (though, again, I don't have any reason to believe that was A.Z.'s motivation).
• You make a fair point. How can there be oversight of ArbCom, even by Jimbo, if he is not even aware of ArbCom's actions? I don't know if Jimbo has access to all of ArbCom's private discussion, perhaps he does (you could ask him). However, I agree with you that if there are non-transparent decisions made then, there perhaps should be some mechanism through which we (the community) are at least made aware of what has happened, even if we can't know the exact reasons for it. That might be as simple as making it explicitly clear in the blocking rationale (to be fair, Dmcdevit did note he was blocking for "engaging in pedophilia advocacy, appeals go to arbcom per talk page" which would suggest it was an ArbCom decision) or perhaps there should be a page listing non-transparent ArbCom actions with a brief rationale, so we can all see what ArbCom is up to. The problem, of course, is that such a page would result in lots of people arguing with all of ArbCom's decisions (as we see with A.Z.'s case) because as far as they can tell the person doesn't deserve to be blocked. However, if the reason they were blocked was obvious to the community then there wouldn't be a need for it to be dealt with privately! The only way to break the circular reasoning is to trust the integrity of ArbCom and, as a check and balance, trust that Jimbo has the ability to oversee their decisions properly (i.e. that he has access to the same information as they do). Other things we could ask for is that, once the appeal is finished and everything is settled, a member of ArbCom provide as much information as they can for the reason behind the block in the blocked person's talk page. I find they are usually as forthcoming as they can be if you ask them respectfully and at the appropriate juncture.
• Personally I don't think it is a "horrid" system. The project has a legal and ethical obligation to respect the privacy of individuals by controlling identifying information (which, for example, is why checkuser information is limited and controlled). This means there will be occasions where evidence and information must remain private. In those instances there cannot be public scrutiny and we simply have to trust in those people elected or appointed to make the appropriate decision. In this instance the most basic information were there for those that know where to look: who decided to impose a block (Dmcdevit, "for and on behalf of" ArbCom) for how long (indefinately), and for what reason (for engaging in pedophilia advocacy). Rockpocket 21:55, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

• I think they could make a lot more of the process public without violating anyone's privacy:

1) Make a copy of any discussion or decision on page-locked site with any personal info (names, I/P addresses, etc.) redacted. The page-lock will prevent people from complaining there, and the redacting will ensure privacy.

2) There is no reason why this has to wait until the process is completed. They may be basing decisions on incomplete or incorrect info, which could be remedied if those people with the info knew Arb Comm had bad or missing info they were using. StuRat 01:17, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Its rarely that simple. People are naturally curious (why is partly the reason we are all interested in why A.Z. was blocked), I would argue people who choose to spend their free time contributing to an encyclopaedia are at the extreme end of the curious spectrum too. I was privy to restricted information on a recent case and ArbCom, rightly so, would not say anything more about it publically because even saying what had happened in the most general terms would have sent everyone scurrying off to search, looking for anything that might fit. That serves no purpose. Either is causes people to jump to the wrong conclusions or someone makes the right conclusion and suddenly the information is no longer private. Also, while we can delete and oversight info from Wikipedia, we have no control of what happens on forks or other sites (this is partly the reasoning behind WP:BADSITES). At the end of the day, personal security/privacy trumps pretty much everything else and if that means we are all left in the dark while the case is discussed, I'll accept that. What would not be acceptable if A.Z. was kept in the dark, but we have no reason to believe that is the case. Rockpocket 01:47, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Can you give me some indication of what the case was you were involved with and what privacy issues were being discussed ? I still think the Arb Comm needs to follow the principles of the United States' Freedom of Information Act, which is that every bit of info should be disclosed unless that particular bit of info would cause harm (except that they shouldn't wait until the info is requested). Unfortunately, many in the US gov and Wikipedia apparently think the reverse, that everything should be kept private, unless they are forced to divulge it. StuRat 12:41, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Sure. It was Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/The Troubles, the information was an individual's home address, and the incident in question is summarized here. I would note, however, the offending edit was oversighted a week or so after it was made (completely removed from the record), so by the time that evidence was presented, it could be discussed openly because there was no way anyone could dig up the edit and find the personal information. However, before oversight was carried out, there was demands that the edit leading to the block be identified, leading to a frenzied debate on the editor in question's talk page (see here for an example, but the whole page is relevant). Its easy to oversight single edits on Wikipedia, and then they can be discussed without fear that the personal information will leak (the equivalent of Freedom of Information releases, with sensitive details blanked out). Everything gets a lot more complicated when the information cannot be oversighted and is still out there to be found. In those cases admins/ArbCom have their hands tied. This is the problem with the FOI system: it only works when you can control the flow of sensitive information.

To be honest, though, this is all speculation. For all I know there is no sensitive information in A.Z.'s case specifically. Rockpocket 22:28, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it's beginning to look as though the blocking Admin lied about it being on behalf of the ArbComm. A.Z. sent me an e-mail saying he had no dealings with, or notification from, the ArbComm prior to the block. I asked one of the ArbComm members, and, while being evasive, he seems to support what A.Z. said, and not the blocking Admin. StuRat 03:07, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Toys Я Us advertisment

Hello, last night I was watching Saving Private Ryan and I saw the ad you were talking about. It sounds like the girl was saying "can we get some more toys" or something along those lines. Cheers,JetLover (Report a mistake) 23:51, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Is that all ? I was thinking it was something funny. Thanks. StuRat 01:10, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Christmas Carols

Here's my own version of two songs:

Winter Wonderland

In the winter we can build a snow man,

then some kids 'll come and kick it down...

We'll ask 'em if they did it,

they'll say "no, man"...

then we'll rub their faces in the ground.

Then we'll sit, and perspire,

as we set their coats on fire...

Then we'll make 'em walk home,

when it's twenty below...

walking through a winter wonderland,

...walking through a winter wonderland.

Silver Balls

People pointing, people laughing,

At the gym and doctor's,

I'm starting to hate...

being naked.

Silver Balls, Silver Balls...

I've taken too much colloidal silver.

Silver Balls, Silver Balls...

I've taken too much, by far.

StuRat (talk) 03:22, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Boolean logic

Hi Stu,

just a note to let you know that Vaughan Pratt has written a rather long question to you at talk:Boolean logic, requesting your input on your objections to the level of difficulty of Boolean algebra (logic). --Trovatore (talk) 04:27, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll take a look. StuRat (talk) 15:50, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Boolean algebra task force

I'd like to invite you to participate in the Boolean algebra task force that I am forming. Despite the name, a task force is just an ad hoc subcommittee of a wikiproject to work on a particular issue. In this case, I think that our articles on various aspects of Boolean algebra, propositional logic, and applications would benefit from some big-picture planning of the organization of material into various articles. The task force would not require a great time commitment. The main goal is to work out a proposal for how the material should be arranged. A second goal is for the focus to remain interdisciplinary, including computer science, logic, and mathematics. — Carl (CBM · talk) 16:12, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] regarding excess water intake!

StuRat! This is temuzion & I should remind u the matter which we r dealing. "excess water intake leads to kidney troubles". Regarding that matter u told me that It might be a sign of diabetes. But it was certainly not diabetes. For more details see the original page where u saw my question Temuzion (talk) 04:47, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] CECB List

From Comparison of CECB units:

Brand	Model	S-Video	Analog passthrough	Smart antenna	Manufacturer	MPEG Decoder	Demodulator	Tuner	EPG type	Other features
Access HD	DTA1020A-D†	No	Yes	No	Access HD	Unknown	Unknown	Unknown	12-Hour	E, V, L, D
Access HD	DTA1030-U†	No	Yes	No	Access HD	Unknown	Unknown	Unknown	12-Hour	U, E, V, L, D
Access HD	DTA1030-D†	No	Yes	No	Access HD	Unknown	Unknown	Unknown	12-Hour	E, V, L, D
Digital Stream	DX8700	Unknown	Yes	Unknown	Digital Stream Technology	Unknown	Unknown	Unknown	Unknown
Digital Stream	DSP7700T	Unknown	Yes	Unknown	Digital Stream Technology	Unknown	Unknown	Unknown	Unknown	*U*
ECHOSTAR	TR-40	No	Yes	No	Echostar	Unknown	Unknown	MicroTune MT2131	Full	T, [3]
Magnavox	TB100MG9	No	Yes	No	Funai	Unknown	Unknown	Unknown	Now/Next
MaxMedia	MMDTVB03	Yes [9]	Yes	Yes	MaxMedia	Texas Instruments TVP9007	Texas Instruments TVP9007	Thomson	Unknown	E, D, L, V
Microprose	MPI-500	No	Yes	No	LG Electronics	LG DT1111D	LG DT3703	Sanyo UAB00AL	Now/Next	E, V
Philco	TB150HH9	No	Yes	Yes	Funai	Unknown	Unknown	Unknown	Now/Next	D
Philco	TB100HH9	No	Yes	No	Funai	Unknown	Unknown	Unknown	Now/Next	D
Skardin	DTR-0727	Unknown	Yes	Unknown	Skardin Industrial Corporation	Unknown	Unknown	Unknown	Unknown

• ^†Awaiting NTIA approval

[edit] Other Features Breakdown

Other Features (see table above for which boxes have which)

Code	Name	Description
U	Universal Remote	Comes with a universal remote control capable of being programmed to control other entertainment devices. Be sure to review the manual to make sure it can control your brand of TV, etc.
E	External Power Supply	Powered by an external power supply. A box with this code might be used in a vehicle without using a power inverter.
V	Volume Control	Capable of independently controlling the output volume. You could, for example, set your TV to a particular volume and leave it there, using the CECB's remote to control volume instead.
T	VCR Timer	Schedules programs at desired times so they can be recorded unattended to TiVo, VCR, DVD recorder or other recording media.
R	Reminders	Settable reminders to alert you when a show is on.
L	Multilanguage Menus	The menus can be changed to languages other than English. You probably need to understand enough English to navigate the menu to do this.
-N	No Manual Channel Update	Cannot add channel manually if the auto-scan of digital channels does not pick up all the channels.
D	Digital CC	Capable of decoding digital closed captions; the user will be able to change various aspects of the captions such as size, font style, background opacity, text color, etc.

[edit] High Output Renal Failure

I've requested some help on the acute renal failure article at the doctor's mess. I don't know if there's a nephrologist aboard, but hopefully the article will nonetheless get some attention. - Nunh-huh 21:39, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Please let me know if there's any progress. StuRat (talk) 14:21, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Humour

		Wikipedia Happy Funnel Award
		StuRat, for your merry contribution at the Refdesk here[10] and brave signs of romantic idealism, I hereby endow you with the Funnel Award to be used very carefully. Julia Rossi (talk) 23:21, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks ! Now if only I can think of something romantic to do with a funnel... StuRat (talk) 23:33, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

You will. If anyone can, you will, : )) Julia Rossi (talk) 09:19, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

 :-) StuRat (talk) 12:34, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] You have been in extremely good form lately

As in "Waiting for Mister Right." [11]Edison (talk) 05:14, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks...and if the young, fictional woman who made that comment was criticized for her actions, I suppose she could always turn the other cheek (or perhaps a deaf ear). StuRat (talk) 18:52, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] RefDesk

Thank you for your response. This has been a really difficult time for my friend and the gang has been having a difficult time consoling him. I'm going to read the article you linked me carefully. Thanks again. --Endless Dan 20:12, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Your welcome. You sound like a good friend. StuRat (talk) 20:23, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Update on the "flaming drink" question

I just thought I'd tell you (Franamax, StuRat, hydnjo, Atlant) how the flaming drink thing went. Well, mixed results. It's all made, but sometimes it works and some times it does not. What makes it extra odd, is that it works 100% of the time for me, but only about 50% for the girl that has to do it. So far, three shows with an audience and it only lit once. UGHH!!!

What I did: I made a fire place poker out of mostly thin PVC pipe. In the handle is a gas grill starter with wires going inside the pipe. Franamax - You mentioned the handle idea and I had already thought of that, but I didn't want to steer people towards what I was already thinking. I guess it's just a case of great minds thinking alike. ;-)

All of it is painted with "Hammered" spray paint made for outside plastic furniture. Here's a shot of it close up without the flame. http://wonderley.com/shows/2008/FarmersDaughter/Photos/Page01/shots/2008-04-17~069.jpg That's me on the couch. In the sort of V shaped tip is the igniter at the tip and the other wire coming at an angle. My invention sparks 99% of the time.

In the coffee mug is a metal jigger that I raised to the level of the top of the mug with a piece of PVC pipe. That was a mistake. I made the level of the jigger come to the level of the top of the cup so that the most amount of the flame would be visible. It should be raised, but not all the way to the top. I have to pretend to drink from this cup and the jigger (which gets scolding hot) is hard to NOT touch if the jigger is too high.

I scuffed up the inside of the mug and the other side of the jigger to get the glue to stick to it. The fact that the jigger is metal does not appear to have any effect on the spark.

In the jigger was originally only about 1/16 of an inch of "Golden Grain" booze - 95% alcohol. At my house, it ignited every time. But, not for Cheryl. I later thought about it was having it on my kitchen counter. That's higher up so I was holding the poker at more of an angle on the mug rather than straight down. So, we changed the jigger to about an half inch on alcohol. Soon before going on stage with it, she moves some of it on the side of the jigger for even more surface area.

When we do get a flame the poker flames a little as well and she blows it out. That actually looks great. The idea of adding salt is awesome - Thanks Atlant. However, I had no luck dissolving salt in the alcohol. I warmed up some alcohol with having hot water all around it in a thin glass and stirred a lot of salt in it. I then let it settle some and used a syringe with a wide tip to suck up some of the alcohol from the middle thinking I'd get the best alcohol with dissolved salt that I could. It did not appear to make any difference in the color of the flame or the ability to light it. However, we put salt in a sugar bowl. Once lit, putting a pinch of "sugar" in the flaming drink was an awesome effect.

I also tried freezing some of the booze so that the 5% that was not alcohol would be solid and use the 100% alcohol that was left - after it warmed back up and it made no difference. In fact, whatever the 5% that wasn't alcohol, appeared to be unfreezable as well.

Thanks again for all of your ideas. If you want to see more about the show, visit Wonderley.com --Wonderley (talk) 09:47, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

The freezing method (or the more common evaporation method) isn't going to work to purify alcohol further. That's why they only sell 95% alcohol, it's difficult to get a higher percentage through distillation. There probably are ways, but they are prohibitively expensive, like a high speed centrifuge.

Another suggestion, why not film the flaming drink part and show that during each showing. This will get by the problem of it not lighting all the time and the potential danger. I realize it may not have quite the impact on film, but that's a trade-off you may have to make. StuRat (talk) 13:22, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] economics

I enjoyed the conversation over economics. We should have another soon. I did read your article on "diseconomies of scale", and I was impressed by your knowledge on the subject. I need about 20 more hours in the field before I complete my degree. I'd like to run by you some of the advanced elective courses and get your opinion on where my time is best spent.

Thanks

Paul Balfay NiceG3s (talk) 13:59, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Sounds good. I will also try to convince you that Bush is an idiot. I think you're about the only person who still thinks he was a good President. Amazingly, fiscal conservatives aren't happy with him, due to the massive expansion of the national debt (because of Iraq and little effort to reign in social programs), and religious conservatives are mad at him for not addressing any of their issues, like banning abortion and gay marriage. StuRat (talk) 15:27, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] formating hints/ ref. desk

Thanks for the hint. I had figured out the colons after a while, but still sometimes forget. Your point was well made and is taken. I'll try to do better. Just have some pity for cave people like me. I stopped programming when Assembler went out of fashion. It's taking me a while to learn what all the typographical marks are used for these days. Some of the posts I look at and people might as well be speaking Vogon. And my generation used to be renowned for using a lot of acronyms. We can't hold a candle to GFDL or WP-RF. I used to joke that my aunt wasn't 'up with all that technology" and now people tell me about "namespaces" and I go "Huh??" Plus there's all that stuff you have to think of so people won't get upset with you, like logging in, signing and now colons. Just don't run over granny when she forgets to not walk up the one way street the wrong way. Thanks :-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lisa4edit (talk • contribs) 15:59, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

LOL, you forgot to sign. You may find I'm closer to your generation than you think, being a Fortran programmer myself. StuRat (talk) 20:18, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Gully e-card...

Thanks very much for that. Made me smile.

Just managed to save it from my spambox as it goes. :)

It kinda reminded me of this RD topic (dunno if you've seen it). --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 23:20, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Glad you liked it, I thought you might. The way he fed one then a dozen more showed up seemed spot on. StuRat (talk) 06:29, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

They forgot to show the first gull going into an attack stance and trying in vain to defend the food from the others, before getting pushed aside and ending up with little or nothing. Now that would be true to life... ;) --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 21:52, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] hi

Hi, StuRat - any chance of dropping me a line? - adambrowne666athotmail.com - ta Adambrowne666 (talk) 21:35, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't quite understand. You want me to send you an e-mail ? If so, regarding what topic ? Do you possibly have me confused with someone else ? StuRat (talk) 00:19, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal

Since you were heavily involved in the discussion at Wikipedia:Responding to suicidal individuals some time ago I thought you might be interested in discussing the merits of a similar but slightly different proposal here. I would be very interested in your opinion. Cheers, --S.dedalus (talk) 00:42, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Language of the dinosaurs

Fortran? good god, I almost forgot that existed. I was taught it at university but have never used it since. You mean it actually has a use? SpinningSpark 13:05, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I used it in my last job, which was writing CAD programs for Newport News shipyards. It seems far less prone to errors from common problems like confusing pointers, addresses, and values, and failing to add a null terminator to the end of a character string. StuRat (talk) 14:01, 8 June 2008 (UTC)