Talk:America West Airlines

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Contents 1 Things to do 2 Why both images? 3 Livery? 4 Destinations? 5 America West Express 6 America West vs. America West Airlines 7 Changes by 81.154.36.53 8 Post merge 9 America West Express/US Airways Express 10 "Operated by" designation 11 Time to 'freeze' this article? 12 Hawaiian Pacific Airlines 13 Fleet 14 Cactus call sign 15 US Airline Pilots Association article - Solicitation for input

[edit] Things to do

• America West's Sponsorship and the various venues named after it and team promotional alliances need a new section. "Community Involvment" or similar?

Done Kaszeta 13:35, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)

• Obviously, the post-1992 history is almost completely absent. Anyone have a good source?

History is now current through 96 (and hopefully correct, I compiled this from a bunch of random sources, but my AW contacts said that at list the overall timeline is correct).

I'm trying not to get bogged down in details (yeah, I can mention their labor troubles, but doesn't every airline have those?), but I should cover the highlights through Sep 11th. Possibly mention the 1998 safety fine that was found when the FAA was doing safety inspections post-Valujet. Perhaps also talk about post-Sept 11 a bit, since AW was one of the airlines that came very close to failing but was successfully bailed out by the Air Transport Stabilization act. Kaszeta 18:14, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)

• People often care about the current state of the airline, so perhaps information about the airline's current vital statistics should be moved up front.

Done Kaszeta 13:35, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Kaszeta 03:27, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Moving the current info (including info on America West Express operations by Mesa Airlines) to the top of the document is something I had noticed needed to be done, also. When I read an article, I expect a brief overview, current information on the subject, and then any relevant history which has led to the current state of the topic. I'd agree with you on that.

I've restructured it like this, and am working towards a layout similar to the American Airlines page Kaszeta 13:35, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Also, I think if we're honestly having an edit-revert war here, why not format a template for the information on either a temp page or here on the talk? --ABQCat 17:05, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Further ideas - I've noticed that America West has no header section as it is currently written. Instead, we are thrust directly into the Early History of the company. Compare this layout with American Airlines and innumerable other wiki pages in which there is first an introduction to the subject and then the history starts. I suggest: Moving current service to become the introduction section, and leaving the rest of the article as is. Ideas welcome. --ABQCat 21:25, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Why both images?

I think that the image of the A320 landing shows off America West's logo quite nicely including the tail insignia. I'm wondering if the scanned? logo is really necessary at the top of the page. Other articles (Coca Cola for example) do not include a simple version of the logo in addition to including a photograph of cans of soda emblazoned with the logo.

I think that the two very similar images stacked on top of one another actually reduce the value of both. I would suggest either moving or removing the plain scanned logo and retaining the photograph of the airplane with America West's logo on its side.

--ABQCat 17:20, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The reason for the logo is simple. If you had looked at other airline articles (for example Air Canada) you would have noticed that having the logo at the top of the page is the standard format for airline pages. So it would break the format to remove it - Adrian Pingstone 19:08, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Ah yes. Perhaps what confused me was that America West's layout was uglified compared to, say, British Airways. I've fixed it. --ABQCat 21:17, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)

If the image was moved after the mini hub text, it shows up to the right of the contents box filling some of that white space on the right side of the page. It also allows the text to flow under the logo. Having the logo and picture that close together is not good page layout.Vegaswikian 23:12, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• Anyone know what happened to ? I was going to restore it but it appears to be missing. Having the last logo before the merge available seems important for an emcylopedia. Vegaswikian 06:22, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
  • I uploaded a new one and replaced the merger logo in the infobox with it. It looked like the previous logo was removed from the article, and since it was unused, eventually deleted from Wikipedia. Hawaiian717 08:46, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Livery?

Since the old livery can still be seen at Sky Harbor, maybe we should have a picture of it in the article. Other airline articles do (Delta, etc.). Emfraser 09:05, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Destinations?

This would be a lengthy list. www.americawest.com indicates 101 destinations. --ABQCat 06:51, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

• There is a catgory that was used by other airline pages called Airline destinations. Several of the major airlines had this set up for them. I added the one for HP and included a link. Maybe someone can do the same for America West Express flights? The format was copied from the other pages. Also a check of what I added would be helpful.Vegaswikian 23:07, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] America West Express

• Why is this included in the America West page with details. Other companies, Continental Express being one example are on their own page. This helps keep things cleaner on the America West page. This would be easy to set up and links here and in Mesa Airlines would keep it from being an orphan. It would also allow all of the airport pages to have something better to link to for Mesa (dba). It would also allow for a better history of the Express operation. Like when the Colunbus hub was open another company was using the Express name for service there.Vegaswikian 23:26, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • As someone pointed out below, the old article was stubby. I'm considering replacing the redirect with User_talk:Vegaswikian#America_West_Express, sorry it appears as multiple sections and not as an article, but it starts there and runs to the end of my talk page. I think this is a more complete version that still needs some cleanup but is large enough to stand on its own.Vegaswikian

Yes, the old article was ultra-stubby. I restored a redirect today in place of stub content which was 2 sentences long and was very general about America West Express. While other express carriers do indeed have their own articles, as long as the information is presented prominently in the main article and the redirects are correct, why not incorporate all the information.

Secondly, as I understand it, America West Express is a trademark owned by America West. Currently Mesa Airlines operates the flights (and likely will for the forseeable future), but the contract could be awarded to any other airline company. In this respect, the Express company is really just a rebranding of another carrier and isn't really all that significant anyway: they're just a part of the mainline carrier. I'd like to keep the AWExpress info on the main America West (Airlines) page. --ABQCat 05:10, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

That may be, but the company has its own history. How do you keep all of that on one page while making it easy to follow? In fact, you could probably make the case that by having America West Express on a page would make it less like it was Mesa. Did you look at the draft page I have? According to HP on their web page there are two companies flying the commuter routes, Mesa is not the only one. With the number of sites that link to the Express page, you would think that it should have it's own page. Since the reason for removing the old page was lack of information and that the page I'm thinking of putting up is rather extensive why should this be a problem? Do you know who owns America West Express? Is it America West Holdings? I know they also have America West Vacations as a division. Vegaswikian 06:28, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Hey, I'm fine with an individual page for Express, as long as it's closely tied to the America West Airlines article. They may be (unverified as of yet) owned by the same holdings company, attempt to operate seamlessly (America West gate agents for Mesa-operated AWE flights), etc.

I have, however, checked on the operation of America West Express. Mesa Airlines is the sole operator of America West Express flights ([1]) and verified by a few friends I have who work for Mesa (I know, no original research, but I wanted to make sure the source was up to date). The page indicates America West has "code share partners" which essentially means that you can earn airline miles on these other airlines, but they won't be branded as "America West Express" even if they are commuter flights. America West Express refers exclusively to the flights operated by Mesa for America West.

If you can extract the info from this page (the intro paragraph and fleet table) and expand it slightly to integrate it with the America West article, I'd have no objection whatsoever to making America West Express into its own article. --ABQCat 17:10, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

If anyone would like to change the page I have put together, feel free to do so at User_talk:Vegaswikian#America_West_Express. For my source on Mesa not being the only operator, go to http://www.americawest.com/aboutawa/companyprofile/aa_routemap.htm and look at the lower left side of the interactive map where three companies are listed. Based on your comments I also looked at the printable version and that shows two companies providing Express service. So, the web site infomation is not consistant. However if you were to assume that the information was correct at one time, then ay least 4 companies were used Express in the past. I believe that there is one site that has a lot of data on the history of HP. I'll see if I can find that and see if that source is any better.Vegaswikian 19:42, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

(Resetting indent)Note: Air Midwest is the other carrier listed as being provider of America West Express service. The thing is, Mesa Air Group owns Air Midwest. Perhaps the wording of my original statement was imprecise. I would instead argue that Mesa Air Group operates America West Express flights for America West. (source: http://www.mesa-air.com/amw_info.asp). I can't get the swf interactive map to load, so I can't tell what the other carrier would be. So it finally loaded. The other carrier is Freedom Airlines, a wholly owned subsidiary of Mesa Air Group. So, I'd definitely support just changing Mesa Airlines to Mesa Air Group Airlines or some such on the article right now, and making a similar change on your draft page (if it would be apropriate - I haven't yet looked at it). --ABQCat 20:59, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I looked at the Mesa Air Group 2003 annual report. It clearly says it operates under a code share with HP and several other airlines. So my code share statement is likely correct. Using Mesa Air Group makes sense to avoid the details. Vegaswikian 21:43, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Yeah. Just to clarify for everyone, "Code Share" means that Mesa Air Group flights take on the name of another carrier (crew uniforms are those of the other carrier as well), airline miles may be earned (in some cases) while flying on Code Share partners, etc. Mesa Air Group operates as code share partners (under contract until?) for America West Express, United Express, and US Airways Express. Additionally, Mesa Air Group consists of Mesa Airlines, Freedom Airlines, and Air Midwest. So, saying that the flights for America West Express are oprated by Mesa Air Group is, in fact, the most precise thing to say. There's no reason to avoid the details, just explain what is meant by Mesa Air Group and all the details are included. --ABQCat 22:07, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

OK, I also did a page for Mesa Air Group that explains some of this and their history. It still needs more work. I'll replace the redirect with the express page shortly, feel free to update and add to it. Thanks for your comments. Vegaswikian 00:33, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] America West vs. America West Airlines

Why is this page not America West Airlines which is the correct name of the company? Isn't the wiki standard to use the correct name? If you look at what links here, about 50% are redirects from America West Airlines or America West Express.Vegaswikian 00:32, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

If you feel a change is needed, feel free to make it yourself! Rhobite 02:47, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)

America West Express links here don't make your point very well, but the links for America West Airlines, does. If you'd like to move this article (big thing to do if you're also responsible and correct the pages which link directly to America West), make sure that America West Express redirects to America West Airlines. The Express article was previously very stubby so we moved its content here. Anyway, if you'd like to take on the (not so small) prospect of moving this page, go ahead, but do it right. --ABQCat 03:40, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• • My understanding of moving the page is that step one is to move America West to America West Airlines That will create an automatic redirect from the old page to the new page. The America West Express redirect would need to be changed. Beyond that nothing would be broken, but it would be nice to fix the America West links. Moving the page would delete the America West Airlines redirect page since it is redirecting to the page that is being moved there. That seems rather easy, so I'm thinking I'm missing something.Vegaswikian 18:49, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Changes by 81.154.36.53

I reverted these changes for many reasons, inluding, combining of totally different topics into one sentance, destinations are not services, replaces correct links with redirects. Vegaswikian 3 July 2005 18:27 (UTC)

[edit] Post merge

See my comments at Talk:US Airways on what should and should not be changed after the merger is offical. I think any discussions on this should be in one place. Vegaswikian 07:35, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] America West Express/US Airways Express

Recently, I have made some changes to the article on San Antonio International Airport and Austin Bergstrom International Airport in Texas in the section under US Airways. I have changed America West Express operated by Mesa Airlines to US Airways Express operated by Mesa Airlines but it keeps changing back to America West Express saying that the airline is still operated by America West Express and not US Airways Express. Why is that? Bucs2004 05:08, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

• From the web site with the schedules 'Mesa Airlines Flight operated by Mesa Airlines doing business as America West Express'. So it appears that your change is in error. I believe that this is the reason given for reverting the changes. Contrary to the marketing, there are several airlines operating so care needs to be taken to verify facts in making these changes. I know I'm frequently confused by who runs what with this merger. Vegaswikian 05:35, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Operated by" designation

For some reason, a user deleted the words "US Airways operated by" and just left it "America West Airlines" in the airport articles that is served by America West and I have changed it back to "US Airways operated by Anerica West Airlines". Is there any thing wrong with the way it is written? Bucs2004 05:21, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

• It is covered at WikiProject Airports. Vegaswikian 07:04, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Time to 'freeze' this article?

Is it time to 'freeze' this article as a historical airline for the most part? As I understand it, all of the flights are now listed as US flights with HP just providing the equipment and crews. Is my understanding correct? Vegaswikian 22:50, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Thats how I see it. As far as flight numbers go HP of course has its own flight numbers, but they're internal, just like the US Airways Express craft. (Likely they're the same as the US Airways flight numbers, but thats just speculation.) —Cliffb 02:11, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hawaiian Pacific Airlines

Can anyone confirm that AWE bought their operating certificate from Hawaiian Pacific Airlines? Also was that the correct name for the airline or was it Hawaiian Pacific? I have not found any reliable sources to support this. However I think there is support that they did use the HP code before AWE. Vegaswikian 02:45, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I also found that the code was used by Pearl Airways Compagne Haitienne and Phoenix Airways. Vegaswikian 02:55, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fleet

In review a possible error exists on totals. It shows (133) units, but the following is the breakdown as stated by ATW in July 2007 issue: A319 - (39) A320 - (55) 737-300 - (26) 737-200 - (12) —Preceding unsigned comment added by KGoldberg (talk • contribs)

[edit] Cactus call sign

I have always been interested where this call sign came from. America West/US Airways public relations in Tempe, AZ did not know. I finally found an "original" pilot who told me the call sign was an old, unused Air National Guard call sign out of the Sky Harbor NG unit. The pilot reported there were so many airlines with the word "West" in them that they wanted something easily recognizable, so they applied for the sign to the FAA.

Because this callsign is not ordinary I believe it is important that the information be included somehow.

Dshurst (talk) 03:48, 10 March 2008 (UTC)dshurst

[edit] US Airline Pilots Association article - Solicitation for input

Hello. I'm soliciting opinions regarding the controversy surrounding the formation of the US Airline Pilots Association. Please see Talk:US Airline Pilots Association#Controversy and add you opinion. -- Tcncv (talk) 00:22, 22 May 2008 (UTC)