Talk:Spectrum of theistic probability

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Spectrum of theistic probability article.
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.	Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Be welcoming	Article policies No original research Neutral point of view Verifiability

	Religion Portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Wikipedia's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.
Start	This article has been rated as Start on the Project's quality scale. (If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)

	Spirituality Portal This article is supported by WikiProject Spirituality. This project provides a central approach to spirituality-related subjects on Wikipedia. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the Project's quality scale. (If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)

	is part of WikiProject Atheism, which aims to organize, expand, clean up, and guide atheism related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the project page for more details.
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the Project's quality scale. (If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)
For more information and how you can help click Show → If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the project page for more details. Quick help: See changes to: Main talk page Article layout Links to Atheism information and Wikipedia:Research resources Writing about religion and Article development Citing sources, Verifing Sources and Original research Assume good faith and be civil Core articles Atheism article New atheism articles To Do List: edit - history - watch - purge Join WikiProject atheism and be bold Show off a userbox with {{userWPA}} or {{userWPA2}} and attract potential members Help with articles. See this month's adopt an article. Help out with the To-do lists Be consistent Use a "standard" layout for atheism related articles (see: atheism layout style, The perfect article, and Featured articles) Add Atheism navigation template on the bottom of all atheism articles; (use {{Atheism}} or see navigation template) Add Atheism info box to all atheism related talk pages (use {{Wpa}} or see info box) Add {{Category:atheism}} to the bottom of all atheism related articles, so it shows up on the list of atheism articles Maintenance / Etc Find/cite sources for all positions of an article (see citing sources, and atheism references). Try to expand stubs, however, some "new" articles may be neologisms, as this is common with positions on theories on life and may be suitable for deletion (see deletion process) Watch the list of atheism related articles and add to accordingly (see atheism articles) And always write for an encyclopedia. Article to improve for the month of November Agnosticism Create Notable atheist articles Shorten / merge into others false choice into false dilemma - discuss whether you are for or against this merge here Expand an atheism stub Your immediate attention false choice into false dilemma - discuss whether you are for or against this merge here Clarify references in Atheism, using footnotes.

[edit] Problems with this

Is this notable enough for an article on its own? As a Dawkins invention, this is not enough for a Wikipedia entry, and especially under this title. Is the phrase "Spectrum of Theist Probability" even used by Dawkins? There is hope for this article because this idea is hopefully not a Dawkins neologism, but we need to find a suitable name for this, and supplement this article with more sources, if this should be kept at all... --Merzul 15:18, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

I expanded this a bit, I looked at where this occurs in Dawkins's book and it is in the section on "The Poverty of Agnosticism". I'm thinking of redirecting merging this into the article on agnosticism, either as "Criticism of agnosticism"; or simply "Spectrum of probabilities", simply adding something that Dawkins argues that Huxley "seems to have been ignoring the shading of probability." I'm often very brutal in making moves and mergers like this. So if there are no objections within a few days, I'm going to do this. --Merzul 16:11, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

• I am also far from convinced that this needs a separate article. Does it have any life outside Dawkins' book? And what are the chances of anyone actually looking for an article under this obscure title? I would favour a summary under Agnosticism, and also perhaps Atheism. Mind you, I tried to argue against promoting the Ultimate Boeing 747 gambit to full-article status, so why should you listen to me? I guess if someone wants hang some personal opinions on it, it'll be stoutly defended and remain in place! But if it does stay, I presume the article title should be lowercased: Spectrum of theistic probability. Snalwibma 16:42, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
  • I also argued vehemently against the 747 gambit :) I think the situation is a bit different, I can't imagine how this current article can be expanded. The 747 Gambit was at least directly addressed by many reviewers. --Merzul 17:44, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to see it expanded into something somewhat analogous to political compass, where 'level of apathy toward religion' or something roughly like that was included as a second dimension. This is largely my own idea though, so I'm doubtful anyone has published anything about it. I think such a compass would be an excellent way of conceptualizing attitudes toward religion (although there are still other aspects left out, such as Dan Dennett's "belief in belief", which should probably have its own article as well). If anyone feels like stealing the idea and writing about it though, be my guest! Richard001 (talk) 06:22, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Diagram

I'd like to suggest a diagram be added showing this concept visually. Something to go at the top that should give the reader a very quick summary of the concept. It would basically just be an image of a linear scale going from theism to atheism, with agnosticism in the middle. Something like green = theism, cyan = agnosticism and blue = atheism, for example. There would of course be intermediate colours, highlighting the continuous nature of the issue. Richard001 (talk) 06:47, 28 March 2008 (UTC)