User talk:Slp1/Archive 1

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents 1 Re: Robert Barr (writer) copyvio listing 2 Joseph Pulitzer IPA tag 3 Pronunciation 4 Motley Crue 5 Speech AND Language Pathology 6 Concerning Harrison austin article 7 My user page 8 How do you know IPA pronunciation? 9 Michael Petrovski user page 10 Speedy Deletion? 11 Copyright Violations 12 Marc Lepine 13 ANSI and IPA 14 Speedy Questions 15 AFD question 16 Well said (elsewhere) 17 Your edit summary at Ecole Polytechnique Massacre 18 FYI 19 RFC 20 Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Suemcp 21 Ecole Poly-nightmare 22 On a happier note 23 A quick French question 24 IPA rendering of Nicola (chief) 25 check the help desk again 26 thanks for your comments on my page 27 Re: Robert Latimer 28 Fathers' Rights 29 Thanks re: Jjean3 30 Deja Vu 31 Links 32 Ecole Poly Massacre article 33 laurie Dann 34 Marc Lépine 35 Why do you allow yourself to remove other people's edits, instead of improving them? 36 laurie dann article

Re: Robert Barr (writer) copyvio listing

Hi!. I am not an expert on copyright violations, having only listed a few before today, but my reading of Wikipedia:Copyright problems#Instruction leads me to think that if a page has a prior version from before the offending text was added, instead of blanking the page, adding the copyvio tag, and listing on the copyright page, you simply revert to the most recent version before the violating text was adding (and leave an appropriate edit summary of course). As stated in the instructions: "If all revisions have copyright problems:" and then lists the blanking, tagging, etc. This is what I did to Naomi (Bible) and Rebecca Sophia Clarke. The ones I listed on today's copyvio page proper were started by the offending user, i.e., their first text edit was with copyvio text. --Fuhghettaboutit 00:25, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

As you know I am not an expert either. I appreciate you pointing this out and have now reverted to the last non copied version --Slp1 00:41, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Joseph Pulitzer IPA tag

On Joseph Pulitzer article, thanks for removing IPA tag again. I got a really rude message from the culprit on my Talk page when I questioned this. Thanks for taking the time to sort these people out! --K72ndst 20:14, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Pronunciation

Thanks for the help! I checked the IPA and found it impossible to figure out. I do know how to pronounce her name, as I speak a little Kimbundu. I specifically asked people who are native speakers (hard to find in Angola these days!) how they pronounced her name when I last visited Angola in 2004 and did some oral tradition and the like.

First off, the initial "n" is a nasal, not really pronounced in normal speech, but because Kimbundu typically elides the last vowel in proceeding words with nasals, the "n" is written in it's orthography to let readers know that it is there (there are minimal pairs in the language that revolve around this nasal).

The second later is basically the "j" sound in French or Portuguese, or the "z" in English "azure". The i is the Italian i, and the n is hard, not nasalized. The syllable breaks after the "n". Also in normal spoken Kimbundu the final vowels are not really pronounced, just as in Portuguese, but if you ask people to say the word carefully, they will pronounce it. It is also the Italian value of a.

I hope this can help.

I have another problem, which is that some, but not all of my entries (I'm trying to handle as many historic central African ones as I can) don't seem to hyperlink when I think they should, though others work well. I know this is vague, but I see that when I follow a link I placed in the article on "Soyo" to "Alvaro II" it took me to the entry I created for this, but Alvaro II doesn't come up when I just search for it. Ditto the separate article I created on "Veronica I" (Queen of Matamba) Beepsie

Thanks for the help with the pronunciation. I am by no means an expert but think that part of the problem is to do with the accent on the a of Alvaro. If you search with the accent then it goes to the correct page. You might want to do a redirect from Alvaro II to Àlvaro II but I'm not sure how you achieve this! --Slp1 19:16, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Motley Crue

Thank you for the IPA cleanup.100110100 03:58, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Speech AND Language Pathology

So I suppose the one thing I won't help w/ is proofreading. Thanks for fixing the title and my apologies for that.

Cheers,

-RJ1001 04:45, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Hahaha. I am afraid I am rather good at proofreading which is why most of my wikipedia contributions have been typo corrections. Absolutely no worries and in fact I really appreciate your proactive organizing. Thanks muchly for writing up the merge proposal... a terrific idea, and hopefully someone else will come by to comment some time. I might even drop some notes on the talk pages of some of the earlier contributors if I have a moment. Another thing: I noticed that there is a phoniatrics page too. I am not sure if that should be merged too. What do you think? --Slp1 02:17, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Nice catch--seems like this topic is strewn all about the place. To be quite honest, I had never heard the term "phoniatrics." Looking at the entry and a dictionary of mine, it seems appropriate to merge as well. In addition, I found the synonymous term "phoniatry"--thankfully it has no article, but it should be a redirect. This lengthens the list of redirects that need to be made (the nation-specific one you've already made+phoniatrics+phoniatry). I've placed the appropriate flags on Phoniatrics. We'll see what happens.

-RJ1001 04:35, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Concerning Harrison austin article

Aside from the issue of deleting the speedy tags, the creator has asserted some notability (essentially contesting the lack of notability). I suggest you use the afd process.

Appropriate warning templates for removing tags should be issued, and after appropriate warnings, user may be blocked. — ERcheck (talk) 12:52, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

• Your afd nomination was completed properly (afd, afd2, afd3). As for WP:Notability — if the article were to say that the person was a footballer and didn't provide any reason that he was important, then clearly, no notability is asserted. If the article said he was a 5-year old player and the best on this team, then this doesn't really meet the bar. However, with the assertion of signing a professional forms, this is some notablity. For speedy deletes, there needs to be no assertion of notability. For prods, you can nominate as non-notable (in otherwords, you don't feel there is sufficient notability), though if the tag is removed (contested), that is acceptable and the next step is afd. This process is so that community consensus is reached on whether there is sufficient notability to merit an article. Hope this information helps. For addtional info, see

• Criteria for speedy deletion
• Proposed deletion process
• Articles for deletion process

— ERcheck (talk) 13:29, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

My user page

Thanks for noticing that! I couldn't figure it out either for a bit. I finally found that I'd been a dummy and, in my "Ongoing tasks" section, I'd linked to Category:Wikipedia articles with nonstandard pronunciation without using the leading colon to make it a link instead of placing the page in the cagetory. — Saxifrage ✎ 18:40, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

How do you know IPA pronunciation?

Hey Slp1, how do you know the IPA pronunciation? I would like to help by adding pronunciations as opposed to just adding the templates, but I don't know how to find out the pronuncations (like for 'Ewa Beach) or how to transcribe them into IPA. Thanks! --Iamunknown 03:34, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

• I learnt IPA during phonetics courses at university. If you want to learn IPA then a course is probably the best plan, but otherwise there are books as well as articles and exercises on the internet (including wikipedia). It is worth training yourself to really listen and feel words a bit, as it is so easy to get misled by the spelling in English. I hope this helps. --Slp1 12:12, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

  Thanks for the info! --Iamunknown 14:29, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Michael Petrovski user page

Did you see the userpage? Can I tag that {{{db-attack}}} or would it be different for a user page? Or is it just a joke?? Cheers, :) Dlohcierekim 14:32, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I think you have already tagged it, but I am afraid I don't really know, since I don't know the limits of what is allowed on a userpage. Frankly, I am not even sure about the attack tag on the article as he seems to be attacking himself!! But anyway it should be speedy deleted (and has been 3 times already!) --Slp1 14:49, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Yeah, I boldly tagged it. I'm not sure about how to speedy user pages. I did not know if he's a serious user having fun at his own expense or a clever vandal working the system. Cheers, :) Dlohcierekim 14:59, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Speedy Deletion?

Sorry, but I disagree with you that the article I just created is about a non-notable person. Did you by chance do a google news search on him? There are articles about him on many major news sources, from the drudge report (American conservative) to the BBC (mainstream british). It is a large issue with possibly very dramatic repurcussions for the foreign relations of Britain and Russia. Please look into it. Tuviya 03:04, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

• Thanks for your message. I didn't actually put the tag on. I was just letting you know it has been done so that you can save the article if you want. Just follow the instructions above to get your voice heard. --Slp1 03:07, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

• • Oh, okay - in that case, thank you. Tuviya 03:08, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Copyright Violations

Since you last warned Lfabre, (and are an administrator) I thought you might know what to do next. He/She has just contributed large chunks of text (or created) The Financier , the Stoic, and The Titan , and copied her/his contributions from [[1]] and [[2]]. I haven't been able to find if and where The Titan one comes from, but it seems a suspiciously similar tone!!! Thanks for your help --Slp1 01:45, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. I've fixed the two you're sure of, by deleting them, then restoring only the edits before Lfabre added content. This way the copyvios don't appear at all in the edit history. -- Zanimum 15:13, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Just reviewing things, I've blocked him for six months. -- Zanimum 15:19, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Marc Lepine

The article was semi-protected because an editor, from a dynamic IP was inserting some disturbing stuff into it and refusing to stop. The POV of User:Suemcp and the IP are the same, though if memory serves me, the editing style strikes me as different. Similar axe to grind though -- he was abused by feminists, its all their fault, etc. I put a NPOV notice on his page, and also reverted his additions to École Polytechnique massacre. We'll see how it goes. Cheers. Dina 16:48, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I took another look at the recent edits to Marc Lepine and did not revert. Honestly, given some of User:Suemcp's previous edits to the page, its easy to read POV pushing into a lot of things. But looking at his two edits head-on, ignoring his past edits, they are pretty okay to me. His first edit was in the text of Lepine's suicide note where he changed "List of 19 women he wishes to kill" to "List of 19 women". (the actual list is redacted, I imagine for reasons of privacy) On the face of it, that's not a terrible edit. At least to me, it bears some investigating into what the letter actually said about his intentions. His second edit was to add "Marc Lépine, aged 25, by his own hand" to the list of people killed in the incident. This, again to me, is far less POV than his last edits. Lepine was killed in the incident, and it is customary to list all the dead in a list like that, even if one of them is responsible for the deaths of all the others. So I suggest letting the edits stand. Assuming good faith here, User:Suemcp seems to be learning how to edit without POV-pushing. This article has been through a lot lately, and whoever is editing it (whether it is one individual or a few) seem to be getting less controversial. I don't want to go in there and start a revert war when people are doing far less unreasonable things than recently. I will continue to keep an eye on it, and please don't hesitate to contact me again if you notice something amiss. Cheers. Dina 22:56, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Happy holidays! (if you've been celebrating any!) I have listed Lepine and the Massacre page at requests for comment in the hopes that more eyes will clear up some of this. It was recently un-semi-protected as well, we'll see how that goes. Cheers Dina 01:57, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

ANSI and IPA

Longly needed. Thanks! :-) —Gennaro Prota^•Talk 17:53, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

• You're welcome! --Slp1 17:59, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Speedy Questions

Hello why can't i make a swfc vital football page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Swfcowls (talk • contribs) 22:40, 22 December 2006

AFD question

I have a question about the reason you gave for deleting Aggressive street walking. Please note I don't disagree with the deletion at all!! I am just puzzled about whether being previously speedy deleted is considered a repost or not for the purposes of speedy deletion criteria. According to the section on reposts in this,Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion it doesn't seem so to me, but maybe there is something I don't know? Just curious --Slp1 14:54, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

The criteria with which I decided to speedily delete the above article was A4. The article had been recreated numerous times and the text was identical in each case. The article was also undergoing the AfD process and had attracted universal 'delete' decisions from all interested editors. In addition to this, the article was a non-notable {{db-vanity}} publication on the part of its authors and it was their persistence that caused it to go to AfD in the first place. Due process was followed, don't worry! (aeropagitica) 18:06, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation! I wasn't worried, just curious about how the decision gets made it cases like that. Thanks again!--Slp1 18:10, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Well said (elsewhere)

You know, its funny, in my RFA I had two neutrals, who would not vote to support me because they felt I had not spent enough time on article talk pages and that that was an important part of understanding how articles came to be...I am starting to understand better what they meant ;). Cheers. Dina 03:39, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I just find an article with a cite similar to mine, C&P the cite into my article and then fill in the details. You may notice I almost always screw up the formatting the first time too (especially if editing in sections, because preview does not show you then how the ref will look.) The Coroner's report was hard -- you had half the "cite news" template, but as its not really "news" I just changed it to a straight URL ref. But you're right, now's the time to learn your footnotes! :P Dina 15:11, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Your edit summary at Ecole Polytechnique Massacre

• Slp1, it's been a tough couple of weeks on that article. Bobanny has offered some good advice and largely steered clear of the disputes. His edit is (to my eye) okay -- Frum is a TV journalist, therefore also sometimes better known as a reporter. If you disagree, it still doesn't seem like you to jump on him for it. I feel like I know how civil you are generally (so much better at it than me sometimes) so I'm guessing perhaps that you jumped the gun? Or confused him with another editor? If I'm wrong, let me know. Either way, just let me know what's up. Cheers. Dina 05:32, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

I just checked your talk page history and my guess is you made an innocent mistake. (Bobanny is not Bob). My advice, (feel free not to take it) is: go directly to the page, revert yourself, put an apology in the edit summary. It happens. Cheers. Dina 05:37, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi, Thanks for being nice when you thought I was being horrid. But I think you may have things confused. Bobanny didn't make the change from journalist to reporter... (he was actually making changes with the disambiguation thing). Our dear friend Suemcp made the change here [3] And my edit summary was in relation to this. Since she talks under Proposed Edits about not thinking it appropriate to "up her (Pelletier's) status" to journalist I think I was assuming good faith, by saying "suspect" rather than "are" about the demotion!!! --Slp1 05:51, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Aha! I understand now. I suspect (though I have no way of knowing) that Chabuk's warning above may involve the same confusion, or maybe not. It was a rather snarky edit summary. I'm impressed, because you've been so unflappable through all of this. If that's how you finally just lose it then you are a saint...However, I am hopeful that Sue will take my advice. I am starting to think this could be a really great article. Cheers. Dina 06:02, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Glad to have got that cleared up. I will try to avoid being snarky in the future, and to be clear whom I am addressing too!! Like you said it has been a trying week or two, so I am grateful for the positive comments even when I have almost reached the end of my editing rope. I have been very grateful for your leadership in knowing what the next step should be in this whole process, and glad about the clarity of your last piece of advice. I will be interested to see what happens next, but it certainly helps that there are other people dropping in to give opinions too. Anyway thanks. And now to bed. --Slp1 06:23, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

I was happy to spot your self-edit on my talk page (reach the edit of you editing rope --> almost reach...) This, too, will pass. I was actually starting to get psyched about this article today, just as an article, when all these editors were involved, sourcing and tweaking. I mean, there is a lot of stuff, it's a resonant event. And to be frank, the anniversary of it, plus the Dawson shooting, didn't blip that hard on the US radar, so I would have missed a lot of stuff if I hadn't been involved. If Sue made one good point, it's that the article is inadequate to the events. When this particular little fire gets put out, I'm going to hold you to teaming up with me to make this a really good article. Deal? Sleep well. Dina 06:35, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

FYI

I've been following the productive discussion over at "Talk:Ecole" but I have found myself laid up with an awful head cold. So I'm avoiding anything requiring any intelligence and instead watching Law & Order reruns. But I like the way things are headed and will chime in when I'm feeling better. Just wanted you to know I haven't run away or anything. Cheers. Dina 22:32, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

RFC

So, my new year's resolution is not to waste anymore time arguing with Suemcp. I have worked up a request for comment/user conduct on a subpage User:Dina/subpage2. Please feel free to edit or comment. I won't put it up unless you agree to certify the dispute (there have to be two editors having the same dispute with the same user) so let me know if you don't feel its gone that far yet. Cheers. Dina 17:30, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Suemcp

• sigh*. I don't envy that mediator...Anyway, the basic idea of an RFC is at least two editors need to demonstrate that they've tried to resolve the issues with the editor and failed. I have listed some examples, including some of your attempts. If you agree with what I've said "certify" the dispute by adding your name. If you disagree or have something to add, just add bits to what I've said, or let me know and I'll do it. It shouldn't be that ugly, though I'm not a huge fan of this kind of thing...for a while I really thought we had gotten through...Dina 19:22, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I put it up officially. I've done some formatting (making it a bit cleaner.) It's at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Suemcp. Dina 19:52, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

FYI when you're happy with it, sign your name under "Users certifying the basis for this dispute". Cheers. Dina 20:29, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Don't feel too bad, an RFC isn't a binding arbitration. It's not going to get her banned or blocked indef (which would be too extreme in my view.) The way I look at it is, we tried very hard and failed to get her to understand why she couldn't keep doing what she was doing. The RfC is an oppurtunity for other editors to take a shot at explaining why her editing violates policies. I came into this dispute to try and help resolve it -- this RfC is, to me, an admission of failure. It's clear that anyone who steps onto those talk pages are only going to be accused of bias. Her mediation case seems, to me, a sign that she wants some kind of "outside" interaction. This is the way it's done. The only troubling part is that her tendency to rant isn't going to serve her well on the RfC. However, that is sort of why we're here. I think we both want her to understand -- I've just given up sooner...Dina 22:31, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

You're a much nicer person than me...;) Now I feel a bit bad about the whole thing (I've just been so frustrated) so I suggested the Association of Member's Advocates for her to consult on her talk page. Dina 22:41, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

No problem. I doubt I would've become involved in this article at all if you weren't making a concerted effort to get it up to speed. Good work - it's shaping up nicely now, as is the Marc Lepine article. It could become featured at some point, although it might be too grisly for the main page. Bobanny 20:29, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Ecole Poly-nightmare

Is it the guy who's review of her article she wanted to quote? I thought that the initials might match, but then found myself too weary of this debate to comb over the all caps arguments to find it. This has got to come to some kind of end this week, its giving me a headache...;) Dina 18:08, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

On a happier note

I did my first french to english translation! (with help from a friend). It was pretty straightforward. I love if you'd look it over (the original french article is the first in the edit history) and edit mercilessly! Cité de la musique. Cheers Dina 23:38, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

A quick French question

How would you translate the following bit: "En 1678, il visite l'Italie et juge que "les jardins ne s'approchent pas de ceux de son pays"." I have "In 1678, he visited Italy and judged the "gardens that approached his country."", which in addition to being very clunky english, I suspect is not the real meaning. Should it be: the gardens that did not approach his country? It still doesn't make sense. I fear it's idiomatic and I am out of my league... Thanks! Dina 14:06, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! I was misled by the word juge -- I thought it was some kind of official contest or something. I find that my high school French and the occasional Babelfish check make these translations not that hard. Russian is my first love, but there is not much on the Russian wikipedia that isn't already here. (I am spending my coffee break translating...;) Dina 14:21, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

IPA rendering of Nicola (chief)

Just saw your addition of the IPA to the opening of Nicola (chief). We must be familiar with different pronunciations of Nicolas in French; the one I'm famliar with, which is the one I was referring to when I said "as pronounced in French", is more like Nico-LA, i.e. with the accent on the last syllable, not the second; maybe that's wrong entirely as far as French goes, but it's what was meant. The English pronunciation of "Nicola" by the way has the accent on the first syllable - NIK-ola, whatever that is in IPA. The other IPA needed on this page is the rendering of the Spokan, Okanagan and Shuswap names, as what's given are the source's 19th Century spellings (J. Teit), and not modern orthography for any of those languages, and modern orthography and IPA are also two different things; hopefully a Salishan language scholar might stop by and make those IPA renderings as well. In the meantime can you please correct "nɪkəʊ'lɑ" to place the accent on the last syllable; and drop the French reference altogether if that's not the way "Nicolas" is properly pronounced in French; it may be correct in Metis French, which was the dialect endemic to the fur trade, but I don't know exactly; all I know is that the name was given to him by French speakers, and a "corrupted" form of it is standard in English - and Nk'wala is now standard in the three native languages whose history this chief is a part of (I think with the accent the same way as in the English form - on the "Nk' ".Skookum1 23:53, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation of the accent thing in IPA; I wouldn't have guessed. As for Hwistesmexqe'ten and Pelkamulox, I have to find an Okanagan speaker to even begin how to pronounce them right; I can handle basic Salishan language sounds but I don't have an "authentic" accent, nor am a linguist. BC history/ethnology is full of "crunchy" placenames and personal names, and the old languages have varying spelling systems between what linguists and ethnographers prefer, and what the peoples themselves arrive at; I'll replace the IPAconvert tag for sure ;-) BTW I'm planning over time to catalogue/biograph many of the French and Metis in early BC's history (mostly HBC employees); IPA rendering for some names might be a good thing so I'll let you know; otherwise they might just prove interesting reading....l'histoire de la francophonie transmontane n'est pas entendue beaucoup a la Quebec, je crois... (for a BCer I speak French pretty good, by gum! Written grammar's probably awful but I can make sense; although apparently I sound like I'm from Toulouse....)Skookum1 06:01, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

check the help desk again

I'm a little late in answering you there, but I do have a solution. Give me a knock at my talk page after you upload it, and I'll double-check it to make sure everything's done right. — coelacan talk — 07:30, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that's spot on. I added a direct link to the file itself, just in case the layout of that site gets shuffled around. Go ahead and use the photo in the article. — coelacan talk — 02:43, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

You're quite welcome. We need more people uploading good images; there are so many articles still without. If that had been a verifiably public domain image, you could have uploaded it at the Commons:, which is a single media repository that all the various language Wikipedias can use. Sometimes you may already find a photo you need there, and if you ever come across public domain or freely-licensed images, it's best to put them there for everyone. You need a separate account there (same username and password is fine), but if you just want to pull images from the Commons into a Wikipedia article, here's how it's done. Here's an image on the commons: [4] and if I want to use it in Wikipedia I can use the filename exactly the way I would if it were already on Wikipedia. Example in the Sandbox: [5] There's no need to "import" it; the software handles that automatically. Try searching at the Commons: for photos; there's also audio and documents and (I think) some videos. That might be useful to you; if not now, probably later. Have a good day, — coelacan talk — 03:04, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

thanks for your comments on my page

Hi Slp1, thanks for your very kind comments on my talk page. I hope my break will be as short as possible. To be honest I'm a little shaken by this argument - but not surprised. I feel it best to give admins the floor in this case. BTW well done for your edits on Save Indian Family article - I think you could try nominating it for GA status now. I really hope the Indian editors approve of it - it is appropriately historical and concise for an article about a contemporary socio-political movement/campaign : )--Cailil 12:37, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Re: Robert Latimer

Thank you for your kind words on Talk:Robert Latimer. Rosemary Amey 18:45, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Fathers' Rights

Hi Slp1,

Thank you for all of your help and thank you for improving the style of the link. If you wish to move the information within the article, please feel free.

I prefer the information in the Child Custody section, because I believe that these voting results would not be specific to Massachusetts or even the US, just as the results were not specific to any particular locality within Massachusetts.

The 2006 Shared Parenting ballot initiative in North Dakota was not non-binding. This ballot initiative, which interestingly enough was not included in reports by the Associated Press, was defeated in part as a result of TV advertising by the North Dakota Bar Association.

Best Wishes,

Michael H 34 14:49, 3 February 2007 (UTC) Michael H 34

Thanks for the correction. I misremembered something that I read.

Michael H 34 23:23, 5 February 2007 (UTC) Michael H 34

I think that you did a very good job on the proposed section on Shared Parenting.

Michael H 34 00:31, 4 March 2007 (UTC) Michael H 34

Hi Slp1,

I didn't intend to hide my edits. I was logged in on one window and didn't remember to log in on another window.

I just realized yesterday how to add comments. I need to keep the good habit of adding comments. I'll note that Michael H 34 made the prior edits in my next comment.

Michael H 34 16:06, 9 March 2007 (UTC) Michael H 34

Yes, I'll try to find the time. I tried to add information about the citation that you questioned. Not sure how this will work when citations are referenced multiple times.

Michael H 34 23:59, 14 March 2007 (UTC) Best wishes, Michael H 34

Yes, I will find the page numbers and add them to the discussion page. Best wishes, Michael H 34 02:37, 15 March 2007 (UTC) Michael H 34

I started added citation info. Please let me know if anything is incomplete or improper. Thank you, Michael H 34 04:41, 15 March 2007 (UTC) Michael H 34

Thanks re: Jjean3

Merci. He didn't respond well [6] but he hasn't done anything since. Thanks again. --Ronz 17:10, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Deja Vu

Yeah, I probably spent about that much time making the report. The process seems designed to discourage reporting, which is both understandable and aggravating. Bobanny 19:32, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Links

Sorry about the link issues. Didn't know they were considered spam. The links contained info of what courses a program would offer. I could see why it could be considered inappropriate. Thanks for telling me. defenderck 16:34, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Ecole Poly Massacre article

I've been distracted by other things, so it's been a while since I took a spin through that article. What great work you guys have done! And I love the interior photo, it really gives a feel for the place. I am in the process of giving it a close read, might leave some comments on the talk page, but it seems really impressive so far. Cheers Dina 19:15, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I know, sometimes people can be rough. But I think the article is great, and it covers difficult subject matter and there should be more featured articles that do that, so, take a deep breath! You'll be fine ;). I went through an WP:RFA and there people get to talk about you, which is a bit harder...;) Dina 01:12, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

laurie Dann

I responded to your question on my talk page; I can also provide you with a copy of the full article if you want. csloat 01:30, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Marc Lépine

Just letting you know it's officially and Good Article now. Great work! --Wafulz 04:07, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Why do you allow yourself to remove other people's edits, instead of improving them?

Why would you remove material when you are first charged with improving material?

If you believe material is unsourced or original research, why not state {cite} and discuss this on the discussion page.

Don't you believe in good faith by other editors?

In fact, I cited the actual APA memo that states their position is "no official position". And I referenced their website that sells books on PAS and workshops on PAS. All of this is factual, linkable, and points to a non-POV conclusion that the APA does not say there is no such thing as APA, and that they have no official position.

More cites here: http://www.ifeminists.net/introduction/editorials/2005/1109rosenthal.html

http://www.fathersunite.org/Letters%20and%20Articles/Freedom%20from%20Standards.html

From Gardner: http://www.rgardner.com/refs/ar22.html The Issue of PAS in DSM-V

The parental alienation syndrome is not listed in The American Psychiatric Association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV). Critics of PAS are quick to point this out and consider its absence to support arguments that PAS does not exist. The facts are that DSM-IV was published in 1994. When committees were meeting in the early 1990s, there were too few articles in peer-review journals, and too few rulings in courts of law that had recognized PAS, to warrant a submission. Accordingly, I did not submit a proposal at that time. Nor, to the best of my knowledge, did anyone else.

DSM-V committees are scheduled to start meetings in 2006, and the projected date of publication of DSM-V is 2010. The DSM-V program coordinator at the American Psychiatric Association has informed me that a PAS file has been set up. This, of course, is good news in that it indicates that the APA is taking PAS seriously.

In short, the material I added was accurate and not original research. It could have used a cleanup, that would have been an appropriate action for you to take.

It is frustrating to add to the wikipedia in good faith and have someone remove the edits without any discussion. I find your actions lazy and ask you to stop and first a) assume good faith, and b) discuss your removals on the discussion page before acting on them.

I ask you to restore my material and clean it up as you may desire.

thank you,

130.76.64.14 20:47, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

laurie dann article

Here's the article from the ProQuest database:

SCHOOL KILLER LEFT A TRAIL OF POISON FRATERNITIES, HOMES RECEIVE TAINTED FOOD;
[FINAL EDITION, C]
Ray Gibson and Linnet Myers Wes Smith, Terry Wilson, Maria Hunt, Robert
Enstad, Ray Gibson, Peter Kendall and Steve Johnson contributed to this
report. Chicago Tribune (pre-1997 Fulltext). Chicago, Ill.: May 22, 1988. pg.
1

Author(s):      Ray Gibson and Linnet Myers Wes Smith, Terry Wilson, Maria Hunt,
Robert Enstad, Ray Gibson, Peter Kendall and Steve Johnson contributed to this
report
Section:        NEWS
Publication title:      Chicago Tribune (pre-1997 Fulltext). Chicago, Ill.: May
22, 1988.  pg. 1
Source type:    Newspaper
ISSN:   10856706
ProQuest document ID:   24779813
Text Word Count 1336
Document URL:
http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?did=24779813&sid=1&Fmt=3&clientId=17859&RQT=309
&VName=PQD

Abstract (Document Summary)

Before she began her bloody shooting spree at a Winnetka grammar school,
Laurie Dann tried to deliver death up and down the North Shore in the form of
tainted food and beverage, police said Saturday.

Crime labs were testing suspicious food packages that Dann left at two
Northwestern University fraternities, a graduate school building and several
North Shore homes, police said.

Winnetka Police Chief Herbert Timm said that the packages show that Dann was
bent on committing murder Friday even before she opened fire on a class of
helpless schoolchildren at the Hubbard Woods Elementary School, 1110 Chatfield
Rd.
Full Text (1336   words)
Copyright Chicago Tribune Co. May 22, 1988

Before she began her bloody shooting spree at a Winnetka grammar school,
Laurie Dann tried to deliver death up and down the North Shore in the form of
tainted food and beverage, police said Saturday.

Crime labs were testing suspicious food packages that Dann left at two
Northwestern University fraternities, a graduate school building and several
North Shore homes, police said.

Evanston police said some of the food left at the university was laced with
arsenic, and at least nine people, including two children, were checked for
signs of poisoning.

A doctor in Ann Arbor, Mich., told a Northwestern University track star who
had sampled snacks delivered to his fraternity house that he suspected he
would find traces of arsenic, but test results were not final late Saturday.

Police said that many of those who received the mysterious gifts were named on
a list found in Dann's apartment in Madison, Wis. Police said a syringe that
could have been used to inject the foods with contaminants was found at her
parents' Glencoe home.

Winnetka Police Chief Herbert Timm said that the packages show that Dann was
bent on committing murder Friday even before she opened fire on a class of
helpless schoolchildren at the Hubbard Woods Elementary School, 1110 Chatfield
Rd.

An 8-year-old boy, Nicholas Corwin, was killed, and six other people were shot
by Dann before she killed herself Friday.

Dann's plot for death and violence apparently was formed long before she
walked into the school, armed with three handguns, Timm said. "This was not a
situation that was spontaneous," he said. "It obviously took some planning and
some time." She apparently visited more than a dozen locations Friday morning,
Timm said.

At first glance, Dann's biography might not suggest a tendency to violence.
Raised on the North Shore, the daughter of a wealthy family and a graduate of
New Trier East High School, she attended the University of Arizona before
returning to take a job at an insurance agency-and marrying the boss's son.

Closer inspection reveals, however, that Dann had a history of making
threatening telephone calls; that neighbors in her Wisconsin apartment
building said she rode up and down in elevators for hours; and that her former
husband suspected that she had sneaked into his apartment and stabbed him with
an ice pick.

Friday, her bizarre behavior turned violent. Police said she set at least one
fire, was turned away from a day-care center while carrying a gasoline can,
and then went to a home in Winnetka where she was a regular baby-sitter.

Shortly after 10 a.m., Winnetka firefighters were called to that home, at 1250
Forest Glen Dr. South. Dann had set a fire there, but the children and their
mother managed to escape.

During her rounds of the affluent northern surburbs, Dann left packages on
porches or stuffed them in mailboxes, Timm said. They contained cereal treats,
popcorn and pouches of orange drink.

Greg McCullough, a member of Alpha Tau Omega fraternity, ate a cereal treat
from a paper plate left on the fraternity's porch early Friday, fraternity
members said.

"To the ATOs, from your little sisters," said a note attached to the package.
On Saturday, McCullough was called away from a Big Ten track meet to get
emergency tests, said Bruce Madej, the university's sports information
director.

At the Psi Upsilon house, a similar package was left with the note "Enjoy,
from your little sisters," fraternity members there said.

Next to the snacks was a plastic chemical bottle that said 'arsenic.' When
they found the packages Friday morning, "We thought it was a joke," said Chuck
Friedman, a member there.

But calls from a former member warned them that it wasn't. The name of the
former member, Scott Freidheim, was on the list that police in Madison found
in Dann's apartment after learning of the shooting spree.

Freidheim, who lives in Winnetka, received his own package Friday.

"My mom picked it up from the front step," said Freidheim, 22. "She said, 'Too
bad, it looks as though the birds ate it.' "

On Saturday morning, the family got a call from the FBI, which was contacting
the people on the list to warn them of possible trouble. Freidheim immediately
called an old friend at the fraternity house.

"He said, 'You know what? We got one, too,' " Freidheim said. "I said,
'Listen, put it in a corner and call the DPS (the university's Department of
Public Safety) right away. She may have done it to other fraternities, too.' "

Dann had been connected with the university. During the summer of 1987, she
subleased a university apartment at 1725 Orrington Ave., Evanston, said
Kenneth Wildes, director of university relations.

But within 2 1/2 months, university police had received four complaints from
residents there. Dann was harassing them-leaving raw meat to spoil under the
cushions of neighbors' chairs and placing junk in their mailboxes, Wildes
said. She was also a suspect in some thefts there.

Officials sought out her father, Norman Wasserman, and he persuaded her to
leave the building. The apartment was used to house graduate students at the
Kellogg Graduate School of Management-and that school's headquarters also
received a mysterious package of cereal cookies Friday, university spokesmen
said.

Those incidents weren't the only ones that Dann had been involved in. Others
who knew her-particularly those who were friends with her former
husband-reported harassing and threatening phone calls from Dann.

Deerfield police reported three such complaints from onetime friends of Dann,
who had lost contact with her after her divorce-and that loss of contact
apparently upset her, said Sgt. David Turnbaugh. Some of the calls, which
began in 1986 and continued through this year, were traced to Dann's home.

In one case, the caller said that the victim of the harassment "is going to
die," according to a police report.

Over the last year and a half, at least three separate suburban police
departments received complaints from several families because of similar,
repeated calls from Dann, sources said. The other two departments are Highland
Park and Glencoe.

It seems remarkable to people who knew her that this deeply troubled woman was
not intercepted by someone on her path to self-destruction over the last 10
years.

Those whose lives intersected Dann's along the way-in Tucson, in Madison,
Wis., and elsewhere-were left to ponder what might have happened had she
snapped and struck at them instead.

"This woman has a tremendous history of mental problems," said Lou Spivack,
deputy attorney of Pima County, Ariz.

Spivack knew Dann when they were students at the University of Arizona in the
late 1970s. He double-dated with her and her boyfriend, who is now a doctor in
Tucson.

The memories of those days remain vivid, Spivack said, because the doctor had
asked for his help in stopping threatening telephone calls he received from
Dann off and on since 1985, long after they had broken off their relationship.

Dann returned to her family's home in Glencoe after leaving Arizona. She began
working as a receptionist at the Dann Brothers Insurance Co. in Northbrook in
May, 1979, and three years later, on Sept. 11, 1982, she married Russell
"Rusty" Dann, the son of one of the owners.

They were living in a $275,000 home at 367 Hastings Ave. in Highland Park when
they separated in November, 1985. She filed for divorce in 1986, citing
"irreconcilable differences."

In the fall of 1986, while the couple were separated, an intruder slipped into
an apartment where Russell Dann was living in Highland Park and stabbed him in
the chest with an ice pick as he slept. The ice pick punctured a lung.

Dann told police he did not see the intruder. He suspected his estranged wife.
No charges were filed.

CAPTION:

PHOTO: Nicholas Corwin, killed at age 8 in his 2d-grade classroom.

PHOTO: (color) Tribune photo by Michael Fryer. Parents and pupils line up and
wait Saturday morning for counseling meetings to begin at Hubbard Woods
Elementary School in Winnetka.
[Illustration]
PHOTOS 2


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Author(s):      Ray Gibson and Linnet Myers Wes Smith, Terry Wilson, Maria Hunt,
Robert Enstad, Ray Gibson, Peter Kendall and Steve Johnson contributed to this
report
Language:       English
Publication title:      Chicago Tribune (pre-1997 Fulltext)
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