Talk:Shell (projectile)

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Shell is often colloquially used to refer to projectiles, but it is correctly an abbreviation for shell casing. Technically, the first usage in incorrect, and many soldiers will wince when they see it used encyclopedically. Would anyone object to merging this article with Ammunition, or changing the title to something else?

I know a merge would be a lot of work, but I'll do what I can. And the results would be a super-article worthy of being featured on the front page. —Michael Z. 2005-03-19 15:38 Z

Better to let the two articles lie side by side. lest you end up with an over-size article. The intro to shell should explain what is technically incorrect about the term, then the article can go on to explain things for the layman -which is the intention of any "-pedia"

Explaining to the layman is the whole point, but perpetuating misconceptions or misnomers is definitely not. But now I'm wondering whether I'm thinking of shell being misused when referring to cartridges for small arms. Are there any artillery men out there who can confirm whether shell is a correct name for artillery ammunition? —Michael Z. 2005-03-19 23:56 Z

Ian Hogg uses the term in that sense. Shell is the propelled bit; to my mind round is the whole thing including propelling charge. GraemeLeggett 10:45, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The COD has a definition of shell as "explosive projectile or bomb for use in big gun or mortar" GraemeLeggett 16:20, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Ian Hogg and Oxford are more than enough references for me. To quote Emily Litella: never mind. —Michael Z. 2005-03-27 06:45 Z

A segestion to start a seperate entry, 'Shot (Projectile)' and move all non-shell projectiles (AP, APC, APCBC, APCR, APCNR, APDS and APFSDS) subsections to it, as none are actually shells!--NeilGibson 10:18, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 Trajectory 2 Shrapnel in WWI 3 the components of a shell 4 British Pound system 5 Fuze is the usual English language spelling for ordnance igniters

[edit] Trajectory

Would it be appropriate to create a secton for trajectories of various shells and such? Still new here, so I thought I'd ask. Dp76764 20:17, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shrapnel in WWI

I always heard that WWI's trench warfare led to the replacement of shrapnel shell with high explosive, is there any contradictory citations that could be provided? Wilhelm Ritter 20:55, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I have heard this as well but can offer no attributable documentation. Supposedly the shrapnel shell had a modest charge of black powder, just sufficient to burst the case and scatter the payload of metal slugs just before the desired point of impact. Velocities were supposedly so low that shrapnel projectiles of this type often failed to break the skin, and so lacked the desired lethality; the shrapnel shells of this obsolete type were also very expensive to produce. But it was discovered that HE shells, basically hollow steel casings filled with (at the time) cast TNT or TNT flakes, produced sharp, jagged steel splinters traveling at multiples of the speed of sound, and so were considered to be more satisfactory.

A projectile with energy of 60 foot-pounds was considered by the British to be lethal. Projectiles were typically 1/41st of a pound. Hence to have 60 foot-pounds of energy, the bullet had to be travelling at 384 ft/sec (The square root of (60 squared, divided by 1/41)). This was the sum of the shell's velocity at maximum range + the small added velocity from the bursting charge (say 100 ft/sec) - typically about 6500 yards. Beyond this the bullets would lack velocity to be lethal. Part of the attraction of the shrapnel shell was limited risk of injury from friendly fire - the shells burst above attackers and the bullets only went forward. And shells accidentally bursting without firing (e.g. in a dump or through accident) would only impart a maximum of about 100 ft/sec to the bullets, i.e. not enough to be lethal.Rcbutcher (talk) 11:51, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] the components of a shell

What is the term for that brass or copper band fitted around the diameter of a shell near the base, whose purpose is to accept the rifling and spin the projectile? It's a French term. Borroulet? Bouroulet? Borrolette? Google has not been helpful, perhaps because I do not know how to spell the word.

The copper band around the projectile is called the "driving band" and part if it's purpose is to impart spin on the projectile in conjunction with the rifling. It’s made of a soft metal like copper so that the rifling actually engraves itself into the "driving band" and therefore spinning the projectile as it travels up the muzzle.

The other parts of the driving bands purpose is to ensure that the projectile is centred 

in the bore correctly. The driving band also holds the projectile in the bore so it doesn’t fall back on to the charge if the equipment is elevated to a high angle, and forms a means of forward obturation. That is, it stops the gases from the burning charge leaking around the projectile until sufficient pressure is built up to shoot the projectile down the barrel. Ever tried to fire a potato out of a potato gun with a potato that’s way too small for your barrel. Kind of like that.

As for bourrelet, I believe its French. It sounds French any way. It's a part of the projectile body. If you imagine the curved part of the projectile at the tip of a projectile, that’s called the "ogive" then you have a flatter bit past that where the curve starts to go to a flat area. That’s the "shoulder". Just on the other side of the "shoulder" is the "bourrelet". ".

[edit] British Pound system

The article makes comment "This usage continued into the 1950s". I am aware of the pound system being used in the Territorial Armed forces of the United Kingdom into the 1980's, and 25 punder guns still being used in ceremonial situations throughout the 1990's right up to the present day.

I have no specific reference material for this, save my own testimony, and wonder whether it needs recording into the article.

• Note I was born in 1978, and so surpass the 1950's date given by at least 19 years :) *

Xelous - 15th August 2007.

[edit] Fuze is the usual English language spelling for ordnance igniters

Somebody keeps running a robot to change all occurrences of Fuze to Fuse. Fuze is the customary English language spelling for ammunition igniters. Fuses are something in an electrical layout.Rcbutcher (talk) 11:25, 1 March 2008 (UTC)