User talk:Sarabseth

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Contents 1 Qawwali/Qawaali 2 qawalli 3 Hello 4 Kausar 5 New York qawwali band 6 Some wonderful Sufi Music 7 "Template spirituality" for deletion 8 Holy hay! 9 Qawwalis 10 Sabri Brothers 11 Filmi qawwali 12 Qawwali 13 Dont call it petulant 14 Qawwali revert 15 Dub Qawwali 16 Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan 17 Allah hoooooo

[edit] Qawwali/Qawaali

Oops! I followed the wrong procedure in getting rid of a page with an incorrectly-spelled title. I have asked User:Hyacinth how to go about it. Sorry about that. Mona-Lynn 03:18, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] qawalli

All I do all day long is listen to qawalli too...I'm trying to set up a website or atleast a series of Wikimedia pages with a comprehensive listing of qawallis along with decent English translations (My Persian and Hindi are decent, Urdu so-so, and Punjabi and Sindhi nonexistent)...interested? --Notquiteauden 11:49, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Definitely! (Though I'm not sure how much time I would have to devote to this in the next few months. Would have a lot more time after July.)

There are, of course, several web sites where you can find transliterations and translations. Almost all of the translations you see, though, are literal translations. They convey the literal meaning (often in purple prose) but very little of the beauty of the original lyrics.

There's a yahoo discussion group (see link under Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan) which has a "comprehensive" listing of Nusrat's qawwalis (also translations, transliterations and other good stuff).

My Hindi, Urdu and Punjabi are reasonable (though I can't read Urdu). I used to write poetry in the days of my youth. I have translated a handful of Nusrat's qawwalis. At some point in the future I certainly want to do some more. Sarabseth 12:17, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

NIce to see some Qwali fans . A lot of Nusrat fateh ali's Qawwalis R available here . Hope U guys enjoy it . Its a bit torrent site .

[1]

Btw I think if U include meditation into your hapiness formula , it will benifit U many times more .It wil be like a H = Q²M³S . Farhansher

The link doesn't work. Is something missing?

As for formulae, everyone has to find their own formula. Mine works for me just fine! Sarabseth 21:14, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I ve updated the link , hope it works . If it doesnt , visit www.desitorrents.com , & search/request for Qwwalis . GBs of Qwwalis haveben uploaded there .Farhansher

Thanks! I had tried searching for Nusrat Fateh Ali and that didn't work. Will check it out later. Sarabseth 12:33, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hello

It is nice to see someone so passionate about Qawwali engaging with the Wikipedia.

I have made the move to Qawwali as the main article on the subject. What do you think?

By the way, have you heard traditional Qawwalis much? Nusrat Fateh brought a lot of us to the form, but there is also great depth and richness in the wider tradition and its spiritual background...—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 02:31, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, can you please undo the move? There is some discussion of technical issues relating to this under Talk:Qawwali. The idea is to move the page only when the revision history can be preserved in the move.

Also, in this move that you just made, the discussion under "Talk:Qawalli" has disappeared. Is there a way to preserve that too?

I have listened to traditional qawwali very extensively. My collection includes all kinds of lesser known qawwals too -- practically everyone whose work is available in India in audio CD or video CD formats.

Still, to my mind, Nusrat's qawwali is deeply satisfying in a way that no one else's comes close to being. There is a special magic that Nusrat weaves. In the hands of other qawwals, qawwali can be great, profound music. In Nusrat's hands, it turns into pure distilled magic. (Just my personal opinion; I don't necessarily expect other people to agree. In qawwali, as in life, you have to find your own guide, and your own path.) Sarabseth 20:08, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Not ignoring all this. Will rpely in in a bit.

In the meantime, here's something you might be interested in: I have just finally got to publishing my thoughts and translations on Sufi Poetry in Urdu. For now, it will be mainly on the following page:

http://urdu-ke-naam.blogspot.com

The blog's not really "mine", but a collaboration with some folks who are mainly in Hyderabad (Deccan) (see Hyderabad, India and Hyderabad state), one of the homes of Urdu. MY own main blog is at http://iFaqeer.blogspot.com —iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 20:24, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Kausar

copied over from Talk:Qawaali

I wonder if anyone can explain to me the significance of "Kausar". It comes up often in qawwalis. I know it is the name of a fountain in Paradise, but there is clearly some significance over and above that. Ali is referred to as "Saqi-e-Kausar", and there are references to how he will greet entrants into Paradise and offer them the waters of Kausar to drink. Sarabseth 17:21, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The Kausar reference is from Islamic canon. Kausar/Kawsar is the name of a river in paradise (jannath, firdaus, etc.) that is mentioned in the Qur'an. There is surah by the same name. See: Kausar.

Saqi-e-Kausar is not a reference to Ali, but to the The Prophet himself. As in the qawwali sung by the Sabri Brothers:

MaikashoN aa'o, aa'o, Madinay chalo

Dasth-e-saqi-e-kausar say peenay chalo

Or:

Oh Drinkers, come, come let us go to Medina

From the hand of host of the Kausar, let's go to drink

Muhammad is buried in Medina. Ali is in Najaf—thus the reference you hear in qawwalis to Shah-e-Najaf

Hope this helps.—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 20:21, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks! That's a big help.

I'll have to go back and listen to the Nusrat qawwalis which convinced me that the Kausar references were to Ali.

So there's no specific symbolic significance attached to Kausar, or to Muhammad offering the waters of Kausar to drink? Kausar just loosely represents the abundance to be found in paradise? Sarabseth 21:12, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

My apologies. the second line was wrong in the transliteration. I have corrected it.—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 04:39, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)

About the additional significance. Well, the references are more implied and metaphysical than some thing I could list as bullets. Here's a rough start as my limited intellect allows:

For Sufis, the stream of Sufi wisdom and knowledge (metaphysical "knowing", rather than written words, of course) is traced back to Muhammad through one of two people he is said to have initiated in that field: Abu Bakar and Ali. So one implication is something of the nature of "let's go to imbibe of this fount of wisdom (gnosis, ma'arifath, irfan...) directly from the source. And when one is talking of streams and liquids to be imbibed, the person at the "source" of it is identified using the symbology of one of the things Islamic tradition says will happen in paradise: those "with Mohammad" will have access to the "Waters" of Kausar. Of course, one underlying thing you have to keep in mind, is that the whole symbology of "drinkers"/"imbibers" (sharaabee, mai-kash, or badha-khaar) has multiple meanings. The question of talking about the imbibing of Sufi wisdom (often considered heretical and thus, like alcohol, forbidden by orthodox Muslims) using the metaphor of drinking alcohol and vice-versa is kept fluid, and is part of the paradigm-subverting nature of Sufi poetry--and its beauty. See also my post on the Urdu ke naam blog about The Object of the Sufi Poet's Devotion.—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 04:39, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! Sarabseth 14:31, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

---

I reverted the nusrat fateh ali khan page because the copywrite material can be used in this way under the fair use doctrine.

[edit] New York qawwali band

Hello, I've just added some information on the new American Nusrat tribute band which is using jazz instruments to play his music. I saw this band live a couple of weeks ago and it was truly transcendent, very respectful of the tradition and reached the same kind of ecstasy that Nusrat was able to achieve. They are all Americans and they sing in Punjabi and Urdu too. If you listen to the sound samples let me know what you think! Best, Badagnani 23:02, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

I played some samples. Let's be clear about one thing: they are a jazz band, not a qawwali band. They are playing jazz versions of qawwali songs. I certainly find it interesting that a jazz group would be inspired to play Nusrat's songs, but I'm not sure I could agree with "reached the same kind of ecstasy that Nusrat was able to achieve". All the samples are instrumental, but in their live performances they sing a little too?

I'm also not so sure this belongs on the Nusrat page (especially if other people decide to add paragraphs about other Tribute to Nusrat albums) but I'll leave it to others to decide. I do think this is an interesting enough development that it belongs on the Qawwali page. Would you consider shifting it there? Sarabseth 13:04, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Some wonderful Sufi Music

Hello , I too am interested in Sufi music , though the Sufi music that usualy listen to is not called qawwali (well it depends on whether we take qawwali to mean Sufi music in general or the music produced by those who call themselves qawwal , can hardly matter anyway), here is a link to CD's of a Sufi master who was an unparalleled master of Tanbur in the past century in Iran , I hope you enjoy them : Ostad Elahi CDs Pasha Abd 17:17, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks! Sarabseth 14:25, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

You are welcome , I found another source of Sufi music online , this one is realy passionate:Razbar EnsemblePasha Abd 21:37, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "Template spirituality" for deletion

I thought you might be interested in this . F.a.y.^{تبادله خيال /c} 19:35, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

one day i hear one persian casset of khan sahib befor 5year.from a thos day i searh this casset but i can't found util 20th May 2006 9.00pm.

[edit] Holy hay!

Hope you had a good holi. I will be posting some qawwali and poetry quotes about holi at: http://urdukenaam.blogspot.com in a while (tonight or tomorrow), by the way. (I think we were discussing Qawwali a while back, no?) --iFaqeer 06:25, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll check out your posts. Sarabseth 12:41, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Qawwalis

I too love Qawwalis, Nusrat (I have all his albums), the Sabri Brothers... even though my understanding of the lyrics is very limited, (especially when it comes to Persian) - it is though the songs go beyond words and language. (I still read the translations though!)

Looking for more good qawwalis - any pointers would be appreciated! Keep up the good work! Sfacets 12:46, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Have you checked out the Nusrat discussion group we have on yahoo? There's a link at the bottom of the Qawwali entry and the Nusrat entry. There's lots of good stuff there, including lyrics and translations, and some links for listening and downloading too. Sarabseth 04:03, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sabri Brothers

Hi Sarabseth. I have reverted your changes to the external links section on the Sabri Brothers article. The changes you made do not follow the Wikipedia Manual of Style for external links. For future reference it would be best to leave the offical home page of an artist as the first external link. Although this is not offical policy it is consistent with the usage for other artist pages on Wikipedia. The artist's own page is, arguably, the most up-to-date and important external resource for an artist. --Mperry 20:55, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi and thanks! I didn't realize there was an official style format for links. The three links had different styles and I just picked one and made them all the same.

I'm not sure what the definition of an official web site is. That site was added by someone else with that description, and I didn't change the description. But it is not the artists' own page. As best as I can tell, the site belongs to someone who acts as their booking agent (maybe only for Australia and not worldwide; I think I have seen other booking agent sites before). --Sarabseth 12:48, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I added that site. I thought it might be their official web site. Have you seen any other sites for them that might be the official one? --Mperry 16:27, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Qawwals tend to be very computer illiterate, especially the older groups. The Sabri Brothers have no official web site. --Sarabseth 12:53, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

You decided to remove a link to an attempted translation of Saqia Aur Pila.

Rather than remove the link and call it "amateur translation riddled with errors" - would it not have been more productive to ditch the smug pretentious attitude and at least provide a more accurate translation or help correct it?

Rather than come in here and fling words like "smug pretentious attitude" in my face, would it not have been more productive to try to be civil? As it is, I have no interest in responding. --Sarabseth 20:25, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Filmi qawwali

I don't think the word bastardized should be used, but I guess you could explain how filmi qawwali is a for-the-masses version of true qawwali music. But by any means, please do help me improve Filmi qawwali. And it would be truly appreciated if you created a few articles on famous Qawwali songs, especially those by Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan. I love qawwali too, but I'm not that knowledgable on this topic. Thanks! Mar de Sin ^{Talk to me!} 22:41, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I realized that right after I posted that talk comment. That's why I deleted the comment, and added the language I did.

I will try and add material to Filmi qawwali as and when time permits, starting with a list of qawwalis that are honorable exceptions to the "bastardized" norm.

But my interest is solely in traditional qawwali, so I probably won't have many contributions to Filmi qawwali.

When you say "articles on famous Qawwali song", I'm not sure what one would put into the article. Certainly for Nusrat songs, especially the more famous ones, a list of all the different versions that are extant might be useful. Any sugestions beyond that? --Sarabseth 13:16, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm thinking of Ankhiyan Udeek Diyan, which have a few other versions too. (I heard as a modernish version by Jinx, and I didn't realize the orig. was by Nusrat!) One example of a short Qawwali song-article is Mast Qalandar. I'm sure one could add where it was produced and who wrote the lyrics and track information, and even some info on what the Qawwali talk about, if its a very specific topic. Thanks! Mar de Sin ^{Talk to me!} 22:27, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to start Afreen Afreen, but is it a qawwali? Mar de Sin ^{Talk to me!} 22:33, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Qawwali

You removed the qualifier I had put in to that article clarifying that Qawwali is the South Asian tradition of Sufi music. The way the article reads now, it seems that this is the one and only musical tradition for any and all Sufis anywhere in the world. That's not accurate...

----iFaqeer 19:36, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Sorry. Just changed it to read "Qawwali is the devotional music of the Sufis of the Indian sub-continent". Indian sub-continent is a little more specific than South Asia. --Sarabseth 09:07, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dont call it petulant

I know that you work for osa you are not allowed commercial catalogues perhaps if the company didnt rip its artist of you would have some new ones —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.13.244.75 (talk) 14:46, 25 April 2007 (UTC).

this guy is seriously sick. --Sarabseth 13:29, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Qawwali revert

Hi there! In what way do you disagree with my changing the text to "some" Sufis? From a Sufi standpoint, it's the music of the Chisthi Order... there are several other prominent orders on the Indian Subcontinent, such as the Naqshbandis, who don't practice Qawwali. And as for the other word I changed... Qawwali was traditionally performed at shrines, not just mainly. Yes obviously it has branched out a lot since then, but the sentence starts out "Originally..." - and originally, it was at shrines. Can you undo your revert please? – cacahuate ^talk 16:33, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

When you say "the devotional music of the Sufis", that does not mean "of all Sufis". To say "some Sufis" is redundant, and makes the opening sentence read awkwardly.

The fact that some Sufi orders don't practice qawwali can certainly be added later. I just don't think it belongs in the opening sentence.

As for the originally/mainly issue, I'm not so sure it was originally performed only at Sufi shrines. "Mainly" is a less controversial construction. If there is some citation to support "only", it can be changed back. --Sarabseth 19:28, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Um, saying the Sufi does indeed imply all Sufis. That's the very difference between some and the. Saying most wouldn't even be accurate, so implying all is definitely not accurate. That would be like opening the Asia article stating that "Hinduism is the religion of the Asians". And then later on, somewhere in the article (as you suggest) clarifying that, well, actually, there are many religions encompassed within, and that Hindus are just one part of that. Sorry, but I'm changing that back.

As you know it's widely believed that Amir Khusrau invented qawwali, and he would perform it at his teacher's shrine, in Delhi. I'm less worried about that line though, so leave it if you like. – cacahuate ^talk 00:53, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

"Hinduism is the religion of the Asians" is a very poor analogy, in my opinion. Asians have many other religions, the Sufis of the Indian subcontinent have no other devotional music. Qawwali is indeed the only devotional music of the Sufis of the Indian subcontinent.

Will others please chime in with their opinion too?

Amir Khusrau "invented" qawwali while Moinuddin Chishti was still alive. So it was not originally performed at Moinuddin Chishti's shrine. As far as I am aware there is no evidence whatsoever that qawwali was originally performed only at Sufi shrines. --Sarabseth 03:34, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I have copied this discussion to Talk: qawwali. If anyone wants to add to it, please do so there. --Sarabseth 03:37, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dub Qawwali

I just heard this article "Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan: A Sufi Music Master Revived" on NPR and was hoping that you'd be able to work it into Qawwali and Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan. What do you think? Is this dub remix consdiered a good thing for Qawwali music? I wasn't familiar with it until I heard this. Now I am hooked! --travisthurston 02:51, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

This is the first reggae remix of Nusrat I've heard of, but there have been a bunch of remixes before (by British artists of Pakistani/Indian origin). "The Magic Touch" (produced by Bally Sagoo) is a CD that's all remixes; used to be offered on ebay all the time, but I haven't checked for several months now.

There have also been remixes of other qawwali artists (or at least one -- Badar Miandad aka Badar Ali Khan).

Some qawwali fans like the remixes, some don't. I like "The Magic Touch". That NPR link was posted on the yahoo Nusrat newsgroup this morning. I haven't been able to listen to it yet, though.

As to working Dub Qawwali into the Wiki articles, one of these days, when I have some time... Someone else will probably get to it first, in all probability.

Thanks for the message, I appreciate it! --Sarabseth 14:55, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan

I am about to start work on this article, and would like to invite you to collaborate with me on this article to bring it upto FA status. If you are interested in working on this article, please let me know and we can work out a strategy to find sources and work out which FA article to emulate. I think there should be donzes of sources for Ustad Nusrat, and it will be a rewarding experience to bring this great man's page to FA status. --Zaindy^٨٧ 09:03, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Great! I will be more than happy to work with you on expanding/improving the article. (What is "FA"?) Sarabseth (talk) 12:59, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Allah hoooooo

No worries, I thought that's what you meant... hope you're well – cacahuate ^talk 18:12, 10 June 2008 (UTC)