Talk:San Juan, Puerto Rico

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	San Juan, Puerto Rico has been listed as one of the Geography and places good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
Article milestones Date Process Result May 16, 2007 Good article nominee Listed June 22, 2007 Peer review Reviewed July 16, 2007 Featured article candidate Not promoted Current Status: Good article

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This page has been selected for the release version of Wikipedia and rated GA-Class on the assessment scale. It is in the category Geography.

Contents 1 GA review 2 Good Article 3 San Juan: oldest city.... ???? 4 Köppen climate classification code? (climate) 5 . The “subsidized” Tren Urbano 6 Manufacturing Center?

[edit] GA review

I'm going to put this GA on hold until the following have concerns have been addressed, most of them being just wording problems:

Lead

• "San Juan (IPA: [saŋ hwaŋ]), named after Saint John the Baptist (Spanish: San Juan Bautista) is the capital and largest city of Puerto Rico. The latest census estimates place the city's population at 433,733, making it the 42nd-largest city under the jurisdiction of the United States." - Shouldn't there be a comma somewhere here? Because if we remove the brackets and their contents it would read: "San Juan, named after Saint John the Baptist is the capital and largest city of Puerto Rico..." so shouldn't it read "San Juan, named after Saint John the Baptist, is the capital and largest city of Puerto Rico..."? Done
• "San Juan was founded by Spanish colonists in 1521" - Shouldn't 1521 be wikilinked? -Done
• "Today San Juan serves as Puerto Rico's most important seaport" - A bit of a POV here - Try and say "according to X, San Juan serves as Puetro Rico's most important seaport" or you could say "[...] most important sea port, as..." -Tweaked line a little, please review it to see if it's still POV in your opinion

History Section

• Something wrong with the position of note 5 - Notes should be after punctuation marks, see WP:FOOT Done
• "A year later, the settlement was moved to a site then called Puerto Rico (meaning "rich port" or "good port") after its similar geographical" - No need for brackets here, it would read and look so much better IMO if you used commas instead of brackets and also re-worded it a bit so it would read, "...then called Puerto Rico, Spanish for "rich port" or "good port", after..." Done
• "San Juan was an important settlement of the Spanish Empire" - Stepping into POV territory again, who said that this was the most important port of the Spanish Empire. Tweaked line to avoid POV
• "For these reasons San Juan became a target of the foreign powers of the time." - Wouldn't mind a reference for this...please?Done
• "San Juan's great fort" - How is it a "great fort"? POV again. Done

Demographics

• Not really needed to pass this review, but if your planning to take this article to FA then what I'd like to see in this section is a graph to go alongside the table so one can just take a quick look at this section to see the increase in population.

Sports

• In the list of sporting events, why is the use of full stops inconsistent? Done
• Try and use a table for teams section, see Washington#Professional Sports and Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania#Sports, it looks much more neater. Done

Notable "Sanjuaneros"

• Considering this is the English Wikipedia, shouldn't the section be "Notale Resisdents" and then have a sentence saying that "Sanjuaneros" is the name for people from Puerto Rico as there doesn't appear to be any other mention of this word apart from the Section header. Done

Other then those points it's a well made article and you should be pleased of how well it's been written. Just a quick note on why I'm addressing these POVs (Points of View) - The fact is that such claims within the article shouldn't be there (or at least written like that) because it will potentially draw critism towards Wikipedia - A way 4u1e and myself found a way around this on the Tom Pryce article was to cite the person who made the comment, in Pryce's case it was David Tremayne, that way any critism can be diverted from Wikipedia to them. A small role play IMO may help clear this up:

• Reader: Hey look, according to Wikipedia, San Juan has the most important seaport in Puerto Rico...
• "Wiki-Critic" Brother: No it isn't, because Wikipedia isn't reliable.

Now, if you said "according to X..." it would be much more different:

• Reader: Hey look, according to [Beep], San Juan has the most important seaport in Puerto Rico..."
• "Wiki-Critic" Brother: Oh...

See, that shut him up ;-).

Anyway, I'll be keepign my eye on this article and hopefully in a weeks time I'll be passing this article ;-). --Phill ^{talk Edits} _{Review this GA review!} 14:01, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Detailed and well done review, I took the liberty of adding a few checkmarks to the points I have already attended and my comments are written in bold to avoid confusion, thanks for reviewing again. -凶 17:37, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Straightforward, clear, and concise. We appreciate your time. - Mtmelendez ^{(Talk|UB|Home)} 21:11, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for seeing to my concerns, I will now grant this article good article status. One thing you could do for future reference is rate this GA review, see my sig. --Phill ^{talk Edits} _{Review this GA review!} 08:43, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Good Article

This a GA but it would be nice if a lot of more info and details of the city be added.The City is rich in content why not add more details about its economy,government or anything else?EdwinCasadoBaez 05:52, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] San Juan: oldest city.... ????

I removed the statement about San Juan being the oldest city in the United States and would consider removing the statement about it being the second oldest in the Americas unless some proof is given to back up tha claim. The current citation given is a link to a Puerto Rican tourism website and nowhere on that webpage does it claim the city is the second oldest in the Americas. Somebody will need to back that claim up or it be edited out. I removed the statement about the United States because it categorically is not true. It may well be the oldest European settlement in the US/a US territory but it is absolutely not the oldest continously inhabited city/settlement in the US or its territory. Even St. Augustine, Florida on the mainland which also claims an "oldest title" is referred as the oldest EUROPEAN-founded city in the continental US (see article). There are several cities in Hawaii or even Guam such as Lihue which had been inhabited for centuries before Europeans arrived in the Americas, another examples is Taos Pueblo a settlement/town which has been inhabited for thousands of years up to the present. I am only writing so much about this because this claim keeps reappearing here and has not been proven. --84.153.50.69 19:11, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Old San Juan is indeed the oldest European founded city in the US, St. Augustine is the oldest city in the continental United States, Puerto Rico is outside the continental space of the US. -凶 21:32, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I should have been more clear with the St. Augustine reference. I was not disputing that San Juan is an older European-founded settlement than St. Augustine; I actually only wanted to bring attention to the fact that the St. Augustine article mentions that the city is the oldest European-founded in the continental US. The San Juan article claimed to be the oldest city in general. The current wording (founded by Europeans) seems okay to me.--84.153.50.69 23:10, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Köppen climate classification code? (climate)

Does anyone happen to know (or have a reference that has) the Köppen climate classification for San Juan? I believe it's Af, but a proper reference would be great. CloudNine 14:22, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] . The “subsidized” Tren Urbano

That "subsidizez" word shouldn't be there,since the great majority of the Metro systems in the World are actually subsidized,even the NYC Subway.--BoricuaPR 19:40, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

what are you suggesting? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.139.241.87 (talk) 06:15, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm suggesting it should be erased cuz it's just dumb...--BoricuaPR (talk) 05:44, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

My Mom used to say, "para un buen entendedor, con pocas palabras basta",,,, roughly, "if you are intelligent enough, you won't require much explaining." Thumbs up to Mom! CallmeDrNo (talk) 05:11, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Manufacturing Center?

The article states that SJ is the island's (sic) manufacturing center. It also states that rum is produced in SJ. Does anyone have any evidence of that. Last time I checked, Bacardi's plant was in Cataño and most of the SJ Metro Area's manufacturing activity is actually located in Carolina, Bayamón, Cataño and Trujillo Alto, not actually in San Juan.Pr4ever (talk) 04:30, 25 December 2007 (UTC)