Talk:Russian rock
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Russian rock was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. Reviewed version: October 20, 2007 |
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[edit] Marry Christmas everybody!
Yury Chernavsky --GC 22:43, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Scholarly works
Added link to PhD thesis. I think ithere is more research done on the subject in russian. Maybe the article should cite more of this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.240.250.114 (talk) 19:26, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Article
A large part of this article looks like it may have been initially copied and paraphrased from my Everything2 writeup Russian Rock'n'Roll, which is several years older. I don't want to make accusations, but it seems a little odd. It doesn't matter to me either way, but maybe keep it in mind. 150.108.235.20 05:18, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Mitki
Mitki never influenced russian rock. Not a movement like hippies - just an art group.
[edit] Khvost
You forgot Khvostenko. He influenced a lot more: Kino, Auktyon...
[edit] Russian rock vs rock from Russia
Probably it should be stated that 'Russian rock' is a distinct style/genre with its own traits, not just rock made in Russia or sung in Russian. For example, there are bands like Korol i Shut and Epidemia. They're rock (punk rock and power metal respectively), but have nothing to do with Russian rock. 91.76.88.10 17:42, 28 July 2007 (UTC)Elvellon
- Russian rock is not a genre. It is a scene/wave in music. Compare to Neue Deutsche Haerte is not a genre, but an umbrella term for germanophone hard rock bands.Garret Beaumain 08:37, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
- Actually, Russian rock is a genre. There are Russian rock bands who are hard rock (Aria), there are Russian rock bands who are alternative rock (Kino, Bi-2, Splin), there are Russian rock bands who are folk-rock (Aquarium, DDT). But take notice that all those bands have this, Russian rock sound. So it is a genre of it's own with it's own characteristics, and in my opinion the best genre in the world. And P.S. Korol i Shut are Russian rock. M.V.E.i. 20:20, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
- You admit youreslf: each russian band can be listed in its own genre. Russian music has the whole palette of western genres, and thus, is not a genre itself. Russian rock is a regional scene (like J-rock is), with its special features, but not a music genre. Music genre should be applicable to bands from any country and language. Garret Beaumain 12:11, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
- Mmm i'll give you an example to explain my poin. It's the same thing that saying that hard rock, progressive rock, alternative rock and etc, because they are different styles to say they are not the same genre. It's like saying "you yourself said. Pink Floyd are progressive rock, while Blur are alternative rock, so how exacly are they the same genre?". Russian rock is a certain rock genre+bard music+lyrical poetism+bringing the emotions by using more instruments and singing with a certain unique voice-type (while in the west they just mostly, sing and thats it. Without adding colour, expression and etc). Thats why the Russian rock is so unique and special. If you'll take for example, French or Dutch or Swidish rock you couldn't enjoy it the same, why? because they just copy from England and USA, without doing anything original, thats why they are not a new genre. Russian rock is unique, it has it's own charecteristics, it has the Russian soul. M.V.E.i. 16:02, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Notability
The prog bands added to the 2000's section seem to be unnotable, at least for the article. None of them is popular or influential on russian rock. And who in the world has added this nonsense about large number of gothic rock bands?Garret Beaumain 09:02, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
- Those mentioned? They are. They created progressive rock with a Russian sound, and they are notable, thanks to InProg. Fell free to enter the articles and read about them. M.V.E.i. 19:07, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Ok guys, i started a task section here above
The task section was started instead of opening a whole WikiProject on the theme. If you want and can help the theme of Russian rock in WikiPedia, if you feel like it choose a task from it and, good luck. M.V.E.i. 19:28, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
- Ok from a section i turned it to something that will be "headlined" above, it deserves a higher status then just a messege on the talk page. M.V.E.i. 09:35, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
- And now i added a blue background to it. M.V.E.i. 10:27, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Infobox Added
It's time the article has an infobox :-) looks good. M.V.E.i. 18:01, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] GA Assessment
I failed this GA mainly since a majority of the article was a slew of 1-2 sentence paragraphs. This can be resubmitted if this is fixed. Wizardman 01:58, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Sources like messageboards?
It seems pretty ridiculous that article uses such "sources" like web forum flooding, and even guestbook posts. Wikipedia uses reliable sources, and only them. Reliable sources are scholar studies, media articles and reports (from large media only, no fan-zines), publicist and journalist reviews. Even fan sites are questionable sources. What to say about discussion boards and live journals? See also Wikipedia:External_links#Links_normally_to_be_avoided. We should go throgh it and clean the page from floodlinks, that cite opinions of 12-years-old webflooders. Garret Beaumain (talk) 22:28, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
- But we should also use our logic, and not just beurocracy. Popsa is a language used in the masses. Where do you find them? At forums. I replaced it for to better links. Instead of deleting what i wrote help me to find better links, because the statement is actually true. Shpakovich (talk) 23:08, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
- It is not entirely true. It represents a marginal point of view. With such methods, it is easy to make article on any band to a ruin with "some consider them crap, and some consider them mallcore", etc. If the point of view is notable, it will be researched and reviewed at least in media. Garret Beaumain (talk) 15:35, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
- Ironically, link you added[1] says it all vice versa:
"Смесь хард-рока, прогрессива, ню-металла и поп-рока вгонит в состояние экстаза самого прожженного рокера." - "A mix of hard rock, progressive, nu metal and pop rock can turn any devoted rockhead into extasy" - said about Zveri. Garret Beaumain (talk) 18:45, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
- I know. I gave it to show you it's all a metter of opinion, and i wanted to show you that there are few opinions. Besides, he wrote that article as a protest against the fact many see in them popsa. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.66.230.108 (talk) 10:12, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
- So the source never says "Nevertheless, unlike the classic rockapops Mumiy Troll and Zemfira, who were more rock than pop, the new bands were more pop than rock", and you cant state this appealing to it. Moreover, this critician says vice versa. Garret Beaumain (talk) 20:22, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
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- One links simply calles zveri popsa, the other is dedicated to defending them from being popsa. Why would someone defend them if they wouldnt be blamed for it? What i say is that many see them as more pop then rock. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.81.147.102 (talk) 10:40, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
- Read Avoid Weasel words guideline. This is the great example of WW - changes like "he is bastard" to "many people call him bastard". Garret Beaumain (talk) 16:23, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
- In the article i avoided such behaviour, and as you can see i softened what i wrote there in order to reach a compromise. 79.182.156.111 (talk) 18:34, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
