Talk:Roller hockey
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I have added some links for hockey related terms that may not be obvious (puck, rink etc). Most of these link directly to Ice Hockey related articles (such as rink), but I believe it gives the reader an better understanding than if the links weren't there.
Feel free to edit / comment at will. Joeldixon66 02:31, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Rink hockey vs. Roller hockey
Aren't these 2 pages about the same sport ??? Lvr 08:37, 3 May 2005 (UTC)
- I'd say no to this. Rink hockey utalises quad skates and a ball, roller hockey utilises inline skates with a puck. There are other differences between these two sports (the sticks are significantly different) - and both have a seperate set of International Rules (as far as I'm aware). I believe Roller Hockey is basically Ice Hockey on roller skates, but Quad Hockey is a fair bit different. Joeldixon66 03:45, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
- Thanks for the explanation. I was not sure and preferred to point out that possible problem.Lvr 12:43, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
I think part of the issue is that in the US, Inline and Roller hockey are synonyms. We would call quad hockey, rink hockey or quad hockey here.
Rink hockey has an owning category - just to point out this is not a simple merger into Roller hockey. Ian Cairns 15:18, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Comment on description of inline
Could we remove the phrase 'but also employs checking in the same manner Ice Hockey does'. Although there are some 'full contact' leagues, neither USAHIL or USARS which control 95% of USA inline permit checking.
[edit] Proposal for editing players quantity issue
In section Hardball hockey it says "...and shouldn't be confused with inline hockey. Hardball hockey is a completely different game with one less player on the floor." but in section Hardball hockey rules says "Two 5 man (4 skaters + 1 goalkeeper)..." and in section International inline roller hockey rules says "...only 5 are allowed on the rink at any time with one being the goalie..." which makes a contradiction because both sports have 5 men teams. My proposal is to remove "with one less player on the floor" from section Hardball hockey.
Petruza 03:39, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Proposal to redirect -merge Rink-Hockey to Roller Hockey
A thought for discussion...since hardball hockey and rink hockey are the same sport and are also called roller hockey...and was called roller hockey when it was a demonstration sport in the 92 olympics, perhaps it is reasonable to merge rink hockey into roller hockey both to make a clear distinction between recent inline roller hockey but to also clarify that roller hockey can mean rink-hockey/ hardball hockey and inline hockeyHardballhock (alternate name and disambiguation) 9:00, 22 July 2006
[edit] Rink hockey is Hardball Hockey is Hóquei em Patins and should be explained at Roller Hockey
Roller Hockey is the Wiki-venue to explain and document two things:
1.Roller Hockey doesn't simply mean Inline Hockey
and also doesn't only mean
2.Rink hockey and Inline Hockey.
Roller Hockey DOES mean two variants:
"Hardball Hockey - Hóquei em Patins - Rink hockey", and Inline Hockey.
There are two different varients of Roller hockey.
"Rink Hockey - Hardball Hockey - Hóquei em Patins", are all the same sport...and then there is another rollersport- Inline Hockey.
Complicating, yes, but clarification isn't ignoring Hardball Hockey and Hóquei em Patins by redirecting those queries to Rink Hockey.
Roller Hockey should explain both varients and respect world culture and namings offering further understanding to the public. Hardballhock (alternate name and disambiguation)'
- The two sports should have different articles because they are two different sports. Unless you want to join also ice hockey and field hockey, which I don't think so, leave this as it is! --Serte 13:17, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] There are two different varients of Roller hockey.
There are two different types of roller hockey and the differences can be explained at Roller_hockey. Field hockey and Ice Hockey are described at Hockey. Hardball Hockey and Hoquei em Patins are Rink Hockey. All three are Roller Hockey. SO....is inline hockey . The differences should be explained with detail at Roller Hockey- It is important to point out that there is an equal number of folks in the world who call Rink Hockey- ROLLER HOCKEY and one page in WIKI can explain all of this. Hardballhock (alternate name and disambiguation)'
- If there is anumber of folks in the world who call it rink hockey, why not make there a small page with little explaining of the two different sports to disambiguiate and then make the pages of each as most complete as it can about it. I mean, what about the rink hockey template? You can't put it in the roller hockey, because it has nothing to do with the other variant of the game. Why put the two things in the same when they can be separated and everyone can work better at the article of the sport they like? I don't know where you're from, but I'm from Portugal and this is the country with most world titles ever in rink hockey, and there no inline hockey here, there aren't teams or even a championship. There's nothing, just the rink hockey(Hóquei em Patins). Just because you can play both poker and blackjack with a set of cards, it doesn't mean they shouldn't have different articles, because they are different games (sports) with different rules and different equipment...--Serte 18:00, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] I understand your perspective but there are others and the public to consider
Please explain why so many Countries should not be able to use Roller Hockey to describe their sport? since Roller Hockey is what the quad style is called in countries all over the world.Why should they have to refer to it as Rink Hockey, or be told that it is called rink hockey as an overarching name? In 1992 people played the sport at the Olypmics and didn't call it Rink-Hockey- the last world championships referred to the sport as Roller Hockey. It is important to remember that your perspective isn't the world perspective or the world name. The public needs to know this when they look up the sport. In terms of the rink-hockey template it ignores the rest of the world names and the publics purpose- which is to gather juried information
In the past there was an article page called Hardball hockey that was repeatedly redirected to rink hockey, which makes as much sense as redirecting rink hockey to hardball hockey and is as disrespectful. Clearly both agree they are Roller_hockey. Inline hockey should be listed under Roller Hockey, and this is to the benefit of everyone invloved and shouldn't be the reason the Roller_hockey page is vague.
It makes all the sense in the world to place all the information and clarification at the Roller_hockey article simply because the sport is called Roller Hockey around the world and people who play Rink-Hockey also recognize the name. It makes sense to describe and explain the naming issues and to clarify inline hockey from (hardball rink, patins) hockey at the Roller_hockey site for everyone who visits to learn.
It isn't your choice to say a sport that has many inner-changeable names should be Rink-Hockey, especially when there is one over arching name for all the differnt names -Roller_hockey. So, again, in order to educate, and so as to respect evry countries nameing convention, WHY IS ROLLER_HOCKEY A BAD CHOICE?
IF the sport needs to change the name for Roller_hockey, Wiki isn't the place to do it- that is something for FIRS and CIRH to determine. Wiki should explain the differences and be a place for the entire world to clarify.
[edit] ...
ok, but let's take another example. If you go to Europe and say football, you'll get Football (soccer), if you go to America and say football, you'll get American football. If we follow your logic, these two different sports (and all the other football sports) shouldn't have separated articles also, because you have to adopt a world-wide view and every sport with the name of football should be under the article of football and nothing more... I hope this explanation helps... Roller hockey should be a disambiguation page just as football is for every different roller hockey sport there should be more detailed articles. Understand that this roller hockey (inline and rink/hardball) it's just exactly exactly exactly the same as football (american, soccer, rugby, australian and so on...) and if they have separated articles, why shouldn't these sports have when they are different? Just because in some parts of the world they're called the same... Maybe making articles like Roller hockey (rink) and Roller hockey (inline) to add to the roller hockey article would meet your satisfactions, no?--Serte 13:20, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Serte ,go look at Hockey
[edit] ...reply
"Rink Hockey - Hardball Hockey - Hóquei em Patins", are all the same sport and are called Roller_hockey. I recognize that Roller Hockey is also a name for Inline style hockey . To help you Football at Wiki explains This article deals with the history and development of the numerous sports around the world known as football and then describes and helps the public get to know the difference.
Roller_hockey could do the same when describing Roller Hockey played on Inline skates and Roller Hockey played on quad skates. The public should know Roller Hockey is two sports -what better place to clarify this than at Roller_hockey. Referring to the sport as Roller Hockey respects every countries personal naming conventions: redirecting Roller_hockey to Rink Hockey or Hardball Hockey or Hóquei em Patins or Inline for that matter indicates to the public that the redirected page or link is specifically the 'real overarching nameHardballhock
- HB, you are not keepinig an open mind on the subject. Inline roller hockey and Rink hockey are not the same, and should thus not be in the same page. Their similarities are basicly the same they have with ice hockey, which you would never think of having in the same page. The article as it is makes no sence. Mariano(t/c) 08:48, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
___________ Mariano, it could make sense with some work. The two sports are called Roller Hockey and any clarification and needed details can be provided at the page so the public better understands what Roller Hockey is. The first thing the public should be told is that there are two sports with the same name, next how they are different, and then finally what each sport does and how. If the article Roller_Hockey only described Inline, that would make no sense, directing rink hockey to Roller_hockey with thoughtful writing, layout, and design will make sense to the public . You need to understand that others call rink hockey- Roller_hockey and plenty of people play both sports.Hardballhock
[edit] Dear Hardballhock
Rink hockey and roller hockey are not synonyms. Rink hockey is just one form of roller hockey as well as inline hockey. That's why rink hockey should have an article of its own, like inline hockey does. Also hóquei em patins has an own article in Portuguese Wikipedia. Hardball hockey was redirected to rink hockey because rink hockey is more commonly used term than hardball hockey in English. The term hardball hockey is only used in the US.
Could you please tell me some language where rink hockey is called roller hockey? I don't know any at all. Instead of that rink hockey is called rink hokej in many Eastern European languages. In German it's called Rollhockey and in Dutch rolhockey - but not roller hockey. In French roller hockey is a loan word from English and means both rink hockey and inline hockey.
If you tell someone that you play roller hockey, they don't know whether you play rink hockey or inline hockey. But if you tell that you play rink hockey, they know at once that you don't play inline hockey.
I couldn't believe this could be so difficult for someone to understand, but it seems I was wrong...
[edit] Hardballhock reply
The simplest explanation I can offer is to refer you to the recent 2005 World Roller Hockey Championships where teams from all over the world came to compete- all having there local naming convention from where they are from under one roof to play -Roller Hockey. Also, I refer you to the 92 Olympics where teams from around played Roller Hockey. I next would refer you to Peterboroughtoday-Johnson Press where this British (English) skater is clearly referred to as a Roller Hockey player and uses all the same equipment you would would see playing rink hockey or hardball hockey. Mundial Femenino de Hockey (Spanish) is hosting the Womens 2006 World Hockey Championships and has no mention of RInk Hockey, yet all the world is there competing-including those who call the sport rink hockey from where they are from. Australia Roller Hockey (English) clearly enjoys the sport and uses the same equipment and competes internationally. Finally, take a look at: Tokyo, Japan they do not referr to the sport as anything but Roller Hockey- same sport,same equipment...they don't mention Rink Hockey. If you need any ROLLER HOCKEY equipment, the same equipment used to play the same sport: Rink Hockey-Hardball Hockey-Hóquei em Patins equipment can be found at, SlapshotUK (English), recognised as one of the leading Worldwide Internet retailers of "roller hockey" equipment and quad skates.
All of the above information is ignored if we simply use Rink_hockey and refer to the sport as Rink hockey by design. Roller Hockey clearly makes sense to a number of people in the world which Rink Hockey is member to.
Rink_hockey is Roller_hockey- with appropriate explanation of the world nameing conventions and with effort to refer to the sport as Roller Hockey generally, the public will be allowed to recognize that this sport isn't exclusively called rink hockey ; all the different countries can be discussed using one name. If needed Roller_hockey could present a table/matrix showing the countries and there native naming for their part of the world.
Since we are not FIRS, Wiki cannot and should not make naming policy for the sport. Wiki also cannot tell the public something that is not accurate. -it is important to note for example the Wiki Rink-Hockey championship page does not reflect fairly or accurately the countries naming conventions who held the championships- it declares the sport to be have a distinct identity: Rink Hockey- and that is wrong.
And again, Inline_hockey should be there too, Roller_hockey should share understanding and explain how Inline borrowed this sports name, and when it occurred, providing information to the public to understand- the Inline page is an entirely different sport I agree- and so could continue to have a dedicated page-or it can coexist at Roller hockey -since a number of inline players refer to themselves a roller hockey players. The inline issue doesn't change what we are talking about here- again if "Rink Hockey-Hardball Hockey-Hóquei em Patins" (Roller Hockey) naming is changed and unified by the world governing bodies then the Wiki page should reflect the change.
AND "Rink Hockey-Hardball Hockey-Hóquei em Patins" should not have seperate pages because they are ALL the same sport, the same game, and the same equipment who play at the same championships. The only commonality is Roller_hockey
Roller_hockey should provide understanding, confirm Inline_hockey , AND explain that Rink Hockey-Hardball Hockey-Hóquei em Patins are the same sport Roller_hockey not ....Rink hockey. -that would be wrong Hardballhock (alternate name and disambiguation)'
[edit] Please view: Official Olympic Games 1992 Barcelona Official Report describing Roller Hockey
This piece can be read and is free in its entirety. Roller Hockey (RH) is found on pages 294 thru 297 of Volume IV (109.5MB) a description and additinal information can be found at:
excerpt: "Roller hockey is a sport with a long history in Catalonia. The Federació Catalana de Patinatge was set up in 1928, although matches had been played on a rink in Turó Parc in Barcelona since 1915. Barcelona's candidature in 1986 included roller hockey for the first time on the Olympic programme as a demonstration sport. The 12 teams taking part were divided into two groups. Group A played in Vic, and was made up of Portugal, Argentina, Italy, the United States of America, Switzerland and Japan while Group B played in Sant Sadurní d'Anoia and was made up of the Netherlands, Brazil, Spain, Germany, Angola and Australia. The ....."
Argentina won the gold at the 92 Olympics masterfully playing a demonstration sport called Roller Hockey as defined by the I.O.C
[edit] Geez
After so many replies you still didn't understand that I KNOW rink hockey/hardball and hóquei em patins are the same. I KNOW the different sport is inline, jesus, how didn't you understand that? I don't how else to do more... And try to look on the SAME REPORT YOU GAVE THE LINK FROM, that 1992 olympics and check for a sport called football. And then search for football in wikipedia. Then, you'll see that the IOC football is not the same as the wikipedia football. You'll get the football (soccer) there. Should we change it too? It's the same thing, exactly, the same name for different sports. And I don't see all the football articles in the same article. Also, I've seen stores and even equipment to store hóquei em patins balls with rink hockey written all over it. And it was brought from England, so I guess somebody still calls it rink hockey... (sorry for the caps)--Serte 13:09, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Geez reply
I understand that a lot of people call this sport rink hockey. The point is not everyone does.
I hear you to say that since Roller Hockey is a name used for inline and quad styles of the sport. I hear you to say Roller_hockey should explain there are two sports and then there should be two dedicated pages that come from that- specifically a page called inline and a page called rink hockey.
I understand that you see rink hockey as the name for the quad style sport.
I understand you see Roller hockey as the name for the inline style sport.
The entire world does not see the quad style rollersport as Rink Hockey, as you do.
A large number of players around the world know the sport as Roller Hockey exclusively or as an overarching name for the quad style. Many Championships and the Olympics have referred to the sport as Roller Hockey too. Many countries as I have shown do not see RinkHockey as the exclusive name of the sport. So no page should indicate that Rink_hockey is the overarching name. Rink_hockey is member to Roller Hockey., as is Hardball Hockey, Patins, Skids, etc.
Also, Since the onset of Inline skates a large number of players who play inline style hockey have used the name Roller Hockey exclusively, but also have a other names to identify their sport.
I agree, Quad style players have used the name Roller Hockey long before Inline players existed, yet the inline style is also well known as Roller Hockey. Inline Hockey has nothing to do with quad style hockey.
[edit] I propose the Roller_hockey article should have something like the following parts:
(When talking about the sport , it will always be referred to as Roller Hockey under the Heading or page. The Heading or page will differentiate and contextualize the two sports)
[edit] Parts
1. A clarification of two rollersports that are called Roller Hockey, describing styles and validating both sports who use Roller_hockey as an overarching name.
2. How the two sports are different. This piece could briefly describe the equipment and refer to Governing bodies and how the two sports are unrelated.
3. Heading: Roller Hockey played on Inline skates or this could connect to a different page called Roller_hockey (inline)
an image to the right of the Heading would be helpful
history
various names
championships
rules
equipment
governing bodies
-The contents of each subheading would be handled by folks who know this sport. Roller_hockey could not be redirected to Inline_hockey because there is another sport called Roller Hockey.
4. Heading: Roller Hockey played on Quad skates or this could connect to a different page called Roller_hockey (quad) Not rink hockey
an image to the right of the Heading would be helpful
history
various names
championships
rules
equipment
governing bodies
-The contents of each subheading would be handled by folks like you who know this sport but from a world wide perspective. Pages using other same names, would redirect to Roller_hockey. Roller_hockey could not be redirected to Rink_hockey because Roller_hockey is the overarching name for the (quad) sport with many names and can also mean (Inline). All of the individual sport names from different regions would be member to Roller_hockey. Roller_hockey will respect any existing regions naming convention.
5. See also.
6. External Links
-
-
- IF a page, were used instead of a Heading, the new page would have to share Roller_hockey with either (quad) or (inline) following. A Heading for example #3 could exist at the same time a page could replace Heading #4 for example. But at the page or the Heading, the contributor would freely refer to itself as Roller Hockey when referring to the sport since the Heading or (quad) or (inline) extension to the name would provide clarification.
-
This way each sport still can refer to the sport as Roller Hockey AND the public will learn how the names overlap. The overarching name would remain Roller Hockey for both sports (quad) or (inline) would make a differentiation without favoring any one country's or world region's naming convention. The differention would be based on the skate equipment, and Wiki will be accurate and provide useful understanding to the public. Any hybrids of the sport would be listed under See also. Hardballhock 02:31, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Complete mess
Just decide on something already ffs. It's a complete mess as it is, with tons of mentions to the different categories of hockey, the same category inconsistently being given different names throught the article, etc. This does NOT look the best way to educate the differences to whoever comes to this article out of pure curiosity without knowledge on the subject.
IMO the best way is: make a separate page for the inline version, a seperate page for the latin version, and this page ("roller hockey") to be only used to explain the name differences in an understandable and concise way (if that is possible), and link to the separate pages. Either way, I think anything is better than the current page. I don't have enough knowledge on the subject, or else I'd try cleaning it on my own already.
I only just read Hardballhock's proposal, and it's not too far from what I'm saying, seems sensible. "Rink hockey" could redirect to "Roller hockey (quad)" and everything would be settled, I think? Or do any of you have a problem with this names convention? --Noikeee 21:03, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] For what it is worth
i just added to the rink hockey discussion that the plan proposed is a good start but who and how?
[edit] I tried to bring clarification
Take a look at the Roller Hockey layout and the pages connected to it. How can this be improved. The point was to clarify and respect the naming conventions- using Roller Hockey as the overarching name (Quad) (Inline).--Hardballhock 20:27, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Inline Hockey is called Inline Hockey
The article as it is written is a mess. The use of Roller Hockey (Quad) and Roller Hockey (Inline) is clumsy and does not reflect the naming convention used in the sport - Inline Hockey is called Inline Hockey (hence all of the various national bodies such as USA Hockey Inline).
I suggest reverting to the original scope of this article - Roller Hockey - which encompasses quad and its variants, disambiguating versus Inline Hockey by pointing readers to the Inline Hockey article.
[edit] Inline Hockey is called Inline Hockey REPLY
The article makes sense without declaring any name as absolute, since there doesn't appear (at this time) to be an absolute name for this new and ever changing Roller Hockey (inline) sport-(note new officail rules again this year). The article helps to educate, and leaves room for every region's naming convention. The part of the Wiki article that refers to Roller Hockey (Inline) redirects to and respects the Inline hockey naming convention- "Inline" is listed as one of the chief names with it's accompanying wiki-link in the article.
If the sport truly needs, or is about to declare only one name, then that is the job of Governing bodies and their members and community-not Wiki. I understand FIRS now calls the sport Inline Hockey on their site, but referred to the sport at the 2006 World Champion USA Men Inline Roller Hockey - Detroit USA, as Inline Roller Hockey a hybrid of both names. USA hockey who refers to the sport as Inline on their site, also calls the sport a hybrid of both in this document as Roller In-Line Hockey - but they are not the only perspectives to consider except they clearly indicate they are officially trying to resolve thier naming conventions as well. It is also important to note, generally speaking, only competitive level roller hockey is strictly bound by governing body's rules and naming.
Other folks believe as passionately as you that the sport is not called Inline Hockey. So, while I am not an expert in this sport, here are examples of folks who play the same sport you do and would disagree with the sole name, Inline Hockey at this time:
NARCH North American Roller Hockey Championships.
Roller Hockey -respect the game, respect the player
TORHS Tournament of Roller Hockey Series
Sports Unlimited Fan Equipment
Bizrate Roller & Ice Hockey Equipment
Tri Valley Roller Hockey League
Bloomsburg University Roller Hockey
National Collegiate Roller Hockey Association
Mission Roller Hockey Equipment
Hockey Giant The Top Retailer for Ice Hockey and Roller Hockey Equipment
Inline Warehouse -Roller Hockey skates
A great inline/roller hockey explanation
I absolutely understand that the sport is beginning to take on the emerging identity: Inline Hockey, and perhaps you could offer deeper understanding to the public, explaining the sport and its evolving names and rules, but we can't in the meantime ignore it's other well known identity Roller Hockey, played on Inline skates, worldwide- before wiki can declare one name as the name. I have to share in my lifetime I recall a time Roller Hockey was a different sport entirely-played on quad skates.
--Hardballhock 03:52, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
