Talk:Pirate Master

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[edit] Great start, guys!

I like how you've set up the graphs and all that jazz, such as "total booty" for each of the contestants. It'll be easier to follow the show in the future with this in mind.

So far, the reception of the show has been pretty good, despite it sort of falling flat after the first expedition.

Again, good start and looking forward to future updates!Badgergrl04 19:17, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Legend of Henry Steel is fictional?

Can anyone verify that the Henry Steel part is fictional or not? Web searching gives me nothing not associated with the show, so it would seem to be something made up. --Masem 19:17, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Arrr - found me a link that it's fictional here. I'll add it in as a reference. -- Ipstenu (talk • contribs) 19:21, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Weekly Crew Assignments

If this turns out to be permanent Survivors tribes, then we'll need to scrap that and probably port over the Survivor templates. If this changes weekly, then my formatting change should save us space. I hope. -- Ipstenu (talk • contribs) 20:12, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Yea, that looks better and cleaner. It does sound like each week, new crews are formed at the present Captain's discretion, but we'll have confirmation next week.

However, even if it is Survivor tribe-like, I think that format works, you just can crossthrough eliminated players up until the next crew change. --Masem 20:15, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] It doesn't make sense

It says that the contestants marked with a black spot don't vote, nor does the captain. So why didn't the officers vote? 3bay sam

Presumably, if all the votes are for the captain, then the two officers will vote yea or nay to mutiny. However, the rules aren't fully clear yet. Hopefully we'll see this part soon enough. --Masem 13:49, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Pirate master logo.jpg

Image:Pirate master logo.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 09:06, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

I addressed this, and uploaded a new version, providing source and rational. - Jeeny ^Talk 03:41, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Current Booty column - impossible to track?

I have a suggest that given how 'freely' money seems to be passed around and impossible to track accurately, I would suggest two possible remedies. Either we completely remove that column, or we track only gold that is won via the hunt (something factual) with a disclaimer that actual earnings are indeterminable due to the use of money as bribes/payoffs on the show and the lack of details of how it's spread around. I think the second option is still best as it gives you an idea of who's making off like a pirate on this show without introducing too much speculation. --Masem 03:48, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I second that idea. -- Ipstenu (talk • contribs) 13:17, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree, it should be winnings only, not below-deck deals. The only case I think anything besides the standard division is if the captain publically reallocates some of his money during the division "ceremony" (ie: only takes 25% instead of 50%, splitting the rest among the crew). --Maelwys 13:27, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I see someone pointed to the "Treasure Tracker" over at the PM wiki created by CBS as part of the Booty tally, but that falls into the same problem with verifibility since it is a wiki itself and thus falls under original research. I have no problem including a link to this on the page, but still feel that the only verifiable bits we can claim is what is immediately earned by the winning crew. --Masem 14:19, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Speaking from experience of working with the people behind the scenes at the new CBS wikis, they don't monitor it half as well as we do here (don't get me started on their massive fair use violations, it's a wiki free for all over there). That information would only be acceptable if it came from the main CBS show page, not the wiki. -- Ipstenu (talk • contribs) 15:03, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Could we at least speculate how much each person has, as they show on air that the captain gave two g's to the pawn leader and $200 to each loser on the red team? That way, we know what they're bartering with at least, or have a closer idea to it. I wish CBS would help out by saying in each episode how much each person's earned.Badgergrl04 17:18, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

As soon as you say "speculate", it's off Wikipedia's radar. I know we saw moneys being transferred in the second episode, and we can quantify this, but I have a feeling that not all such deals will be that obvious. I think it's completely fair to point to the TT table at the CBS wiki as an alternate source. I still feel fine with just reporting the absolutely, by-the-rules winnings, because you at least get some idea of the distribution of wealth among players. --Masem 17:28, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Ok, after the 4th episode, I'm almost in favor of just ditching the Booty money columns (though leaving the treasure amount), as it's becoming way too hard to tell who has what now. --Masem 03:59, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I second that motion, cap'n. Arrr. -- Ipstenu (talk • contribs) 13:30, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I could agree with that, I think. It's not so much a question of tracking who has been given how much, it's more the question of how much do we track? We can track shares of the treasure divvied up on deck, that's easy. We can agree to not track money exchanged between people as pay-offs for votes or stuff like that, again fairly easy. But what about the pardon? Do we track the money used to purchase that at all? We know exactly how much JD gave Louis for that. But what about if the next time the pardon is exchanged it's not made as clear? Too complicated. I'd say forget the whole thing and scrap that column. Though I do have another idea I'd like to put forward, as soon as I get a chance to test it out, that'll incorporate some of this information... --Maelwys 13:37, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Okay, here's my suggestion. Remove the booty column from that table. And then since the weekly crew table seems to me to be growing into an unwieldy (and impossible to read) mass of text, I'd suggest reformatting it. So I've tried incorporated the two together, as can be seen here. Let me know what you think. --Maelwys 14:13, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

SWEET! Do it! -- Ipstenu (talk • contribs) 14:24, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Maelwys' table is clear and provides valuable information. Please implement. SA Santa 14:43, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the support, guys. I've copied that table into place now. Only question is... does anybody know how last nights booty was split? I'm pretty sure Louis split it evenly amongst everybody, but only $5000 doesn't split will at all 6 ways (gives $833.33), especially when I think the smallest coin is like $25 or something. So was it just $825/person with Louis keeping the remainder, or?? I wasn't entirely paying attention, so didn't see how they dealt with that, so if somebody else could fill that in it'd be great, thanks. --Maelwys 14:48, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

They didn't mention this at all, but I would say that if they're stuck to $25/50/100 denoms, the best thing to say (with footnotes) is that Louie said they would split evenly, with the remaining $50 likely going to Loiue's pocket. Alternatively, you can say the split would be $833.33, though because of the 25/50/100 denominations and the lack of info provided by the show, how this was done is unknown. But definitely footnotes to explain any split derivation from the 50/12.5/remainder.

Also, I'd suggest that it's probably easier to use fractions to represent the part of the booty, since 1/2 and 1/8 are easy, but the rest could be messy numbers like in Ep 3. Easier to just say 1/16th or 1/12th than what it's decimal would work out to be, for example. --Masem 15:02, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ratings/Viewer Response

We need a section on this to show whether the show was well-received by audiences and critics. Include some critic quotes too. --Imtiaz 5:56, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Crew of Captain Steel

One quick suggestion, to be honest i'm not sure about it myself. When they open a new compartment of the Chest of Zanzibar, their a little description of the pirate of the original crew that buried that part of the treasure. May there should be a little section about each crewmember. It might be good but i'm afraid it will make the page too big

[edit] Prize Money?

In the episode table, there's a column on the far right for "Prize Money" ... What does that mean? We already have booty found. -- Ipstenu (talk • contribs) 17:32, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

That's referring to the person who was cut adrift, and how much prize money they went home with. I agree that it's not clearly formatted at all... --Maelwys 17:54, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I think we should just put it under their name, and slap a note on it. Like John ($2000)? Or possibly put it in the contestants section. -- Ipstenu (talk • contribs) 18:31, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Ipstenu. ScottAHudson 23:34, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Isn't there an economy that isn't being taken into account here? People are using the money in limited trade on the ship; even if only in donating money to others to help buy the Pardon, or in buying favours... The Prize Money that was earned isn't necessarily the prize money that they're leaving with. -- Xinit 20:41, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New Voting History Color

I would consider using the captain color for the Cut Adrift section, orange for the Captian block and brown for the officers. ScottAHudson 00:05, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Voting reasons

I'm highly tempted to remove the reasons listed for cutting a person adrift. It's original research unless you're able to cite sources that prove "cockiness" or whatever other reason that's listed beside an individual. -- Xinit 20:39, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Keep them. They help me understand why the person was cut adrift more. ScottAHudson 23:44, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Keep them if you can cite it. It borders n original research if we can't back up what we're saying. -- Ipstenu (talk • contribs) 00:39, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Royal Pardon Section

I have added a royal pardon table that tracks who gets the pardon and if they really need it (status). You all can edit it as much as you want, but I don't want it deleted. ScottAHudson 4:18PM 10 July 2007

I don't think a separate table is needed, if this information is needed at all (we don't track the hidden immunity idol at all in Survivor). If it is needed, it should be incorporated into an existing table, as the page, right now, is very table-heavy. --Masem 20:30, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Put it on the voting history for that week 'Bought Royal Pardon'. -- Ipstenu (talk • contribs) 20:48, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

You do it! User:ScottAHudson

Heh. Like I can remember that! Okay, I'll give it a shot ;) -- Ipstenu (talk • contribs) 13:35, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

That's what I thought. That is good enough. User:ScottAHudson

Someone else did it! It weren't me today. Masem, was that you? Thanks! -- Ipstenu (talk • contribs) 20:40, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Yesterday I think.--Masem 21:21, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Contestants Table has little value added.

If you add the contestant's age and home city to the voting history table, all information conveyed in the Contestants table is replicated. I suggest doing that and deleting the Contestants table. SA Santa 16:13, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I appose. The voting chart would be way too big. User:ScottAHudson

I'll just add the age and state they live in. Is there any portion of the chart that should remain on the page? User:ScottAHudson

[edit] Voting history

Can someone explain how wikipedia is privy to such detailed voting history (e.g. Kendra voted for Louie) given that this information is not revealed in the TV show?

Its on the official website. Plus, the vote of Kendra is revealed in the show, you can clearly see "louie" as she stabs her vote on the sword. For all the others, its on the official site Survivorfan101 12:46, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Weekly Crew Assignments

Shouldn't we use boxes in Episode 8 for Joe Don, Joy, Sean, Cheryl, Alexis, Christian and John becuase of the promise of what they call "THE GHOST CREW"! User:ScottAHudson

Episode 8 hasn't aired yet, and we try to avoid speculation. After the episode airs, we'll see what happens. --Maelwys 01:03, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes! something needs to mention them coming back somewhere in the article. How would you go about using that fact in the Crew Assignments table, though? - Jeeny ^Talk 03:40, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Generic rules

I think we've been writing the rules section as generically as possible, and while back in Survivor when the Outcasts came back, that was considered a twist (as it never happened before, and never happened again since), its hard to tell if the Ghost crew is a possible game mechanic - it might come up again in future shows (but haven't seen anything to support this yet in spoilers, either way), or it might occur next season ( ha-ha! ). Since we can't tell, I think it's better to write it as a game mechanic, and thus we shouldn't spell out the results of the specific instance. Daddo was very specific on how things would resolve in the case of either crew winning, so we can identify both cases generically. --Masem 13:32, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Using the Big Brother table

ScottAHudson: I see what you're trying to do (providing a roll-up-able summary of the players) and your request for not deleting the table; I think there's some merit to the idea and could be applied to other shows (which is why I put this on the PM talk page, to see what other people see about it), but the TV series infobox needs to take precedence over the BB-table; first and foremost, this is a TV show and thus we need to have that TV show infobox. I realize this may make the BB-style table harder to put in place, but I did check to see you had the table developed in your userspace before removing it, so I would play with it more to make sure the current infobox information is not overtaken by the contestant one. (Sorry, I'm not trying to be a jerk, just that that change is a bit too disruptive to the page to let sit). --Masem 23:29, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't like it, but I appreciate anyone trying to make an article better. I think it should be like Survivor's, though. One reason is with the BB style table, the names are links and don't go anywhere. The other is that there are already too many tables, plus one for the contestants, in the article. Just giving my POV. - Jeeny ^Talk 23:47, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] As of July 24

Does that mean it will not be on CBS anymore? OR Is just a rumor? User:ScottAHudson

Looks like it's not a rumor. Variety reports that the shows low ratings sunk the show. [1] After the episode tomorrow (July 24), we'll have to go to CBS.com to watch the last five episodes. Hope they weren't hoping for a live vote reveal for the finale. - fmmarianicolon | Talk 02:59, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I tried watching episodes of Survivor once and they would always shut off. I think someone needs to post the last few episodes on YouTube! I have had problems with an error message after a video has played for about 7-9 minutes on CBS.com User:ScottAHudson

[edit] Suggestions for reducing redundancy in the tables

Four tables is a lot for an article of this size, particularly when much of the information is found two or more tables. I would recommend the following changes to the Episode Table:

"Episode Title" and "Air Date": Convert them into the Episode List template, which allows for a short summary of each episode.
"Winning Crew": Delete. It's already found in the Weekly Crew Assignments table by episode.
"Amount of Gold Found": Add as a new row under the Weekly Crew Assignments table's "Winning Crew" row.
"Captain", "Officers", "Black Spot": Delete. These positions are already highlighted in the Voting table.
"Mutiny": Delete. If someone had voted mutiny, the Voting table would show "mutiny" as that person's vote instead of someone's name.
"Cut Adrift": Split up the dollar amounts as below...

Contestants table - New column showing the net total the player left with.
Weekly Assignment table - New right-side column showing (by player) the amount earned via expeditions before pardon costs.
Voting table - Include in the "Royal Pardon" row how much each player spent to buy the pardon that episode.

"Vote": Delete. The Voting table already shows the number of votes the person cut adrift received. Readers can check the table and add the number of votes other people received that episode. If a numerical breakdown of votes is desired, it can be done in the Black Spot reasons below the table.

Because showing the changes to the tables would take too much space on the talk page, please take a look at how the tables would look at User:Fmmarianicolon/Pirate_Master_test and respond here with your thoughts. Good idea? Bad idea? Either way, any improvements you could suggest? - fmmarianicolon | Talk 07:01, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

That sounds good. I just need to know what the Episode 9 crews were: I think they were

Red Crew Jay, Ben, Christa, Kendra

Black Crew Louie, Nessa, Laurel, Azmyth

If any of them are wrong, please tell me. ScottAHudson 15:25, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Correct. --Masem 15:32, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

How much did Christa bid for the pardon? User:ScottAHudson

$10,000, if you're talking about episode 9. - Jeeny ^Talk 16:57, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] YARR!

Sixteen men on a dead show's cast
Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum
Drink for the network canned the show at last
Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum

Cheers, --anon 192.75.48.150 15:26, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Verse 2: Sabotage ain't as cool as it cool be, You are a pirate (master)! Yarr! Pretend to sail the sea, Play with gold coins that are so shiny! Do what you want because it's off T.V. You are a pirate (master)!

Cheers back at ya, 209.184.242.241 18:12, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] CBS Innertube Streams

In the case you do not want to watch it within a browser, or are attempting to dump the streams, here are the direct links. Each episode seems to be split into 4 parts. These streams can be opened only in their corresponding media players. I've tried it, get the latest version if it doesn't work. To dump the streams normally I would try "mplayer -dumpstream", but seems to be some issues with the stream itself. Horrible quality, and the servers are extremely slow, enjoy buffering and jerky/skippyness. Much luck to the rest of you. 71.108.112.100 23:14, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Mistake on my part the security hash is generated each time you try and get the files. Here are the correct links. Open the resulting file in a text editor. Also you should actually be able to put these playlists directly into your player, but it also plays the ads. If you open it in notepad you'll see each individually stream. 71.108.112.100 00:19, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Windows Media Player

Real Player

[edit] Ep10 info

More for my reference but if anyone wants to go table updating, here's notes I made for the TWOP forum that include the teamings, winnings, etc.

- Black crew is Christa, Ben, Jay, Laural; Red is Louie, Kendra, Nessa (ouch!) - Black wins, Winnings are $40k - Christa splits it with Black crew evenly ($10k apiece) - Christa does the same black-spot thing from last week. Kendra and Nessa get the spot. Nessa is, of course, pissed, even though Christa noted her method of black-spot picking prior to handing them out. - Nessa is out 4-0 (damnit, can't spell this morning!)

[edit] Post Show

Ok guys, just thinking aloud here...is there a good reason for listing Cheryl as deceased in the Contestants chart? Presumably we are not planning to change the ages when someone has a birthday since the ages listed were their ages when the show was taped. I see this as being a similar issue. However, I agree that the death should be listed in the Post Show section.

Which brings me to questions number two and three...is there confirmation on Az being in PotC? and was that really "Post Show" or was it filmed prior to Pirate Master?--Balder Odinson 22:13, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Black Spot/Episode Title

Who was the second Black Spot in Episode 11 and what was the title of Episode 11? ScottAHudson 11:57, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kendra's Cut Adrift Day

Was Kendra cut adrift on Day 26 or Day 27? ScottAHudson 11:57, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pirate Master Finale

Which cut adrift pirates voted in the finale's Pirates' Court? User:ScottAHudson —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.213.91.21 (talk) 00:41, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

The final Pirates' Court was used for the picking of the final two teams. The other Pirates' Court in the finale featured all 13 of the ghost pirates voting.Balder Odinson 04:28, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Also, in the episodes table, can someone please find out who the episode 1 treasure hider was? ScottAHudson 23:46, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

I spot-checked around the expedition part of Ep 1, Scott, and they made no reference to any member of the crew; the only "title" they gave the treasure may have been "sunken crocodile treasure". --Masem 00:25, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] We Have a Monetary Issue

I added up the Net Treasure column in the Contestants table and came up with an extra $7687.

However, the Weekly Crew Assignments table seems to give accurate numbers with regards to itself (disregarding the rounded figures). And now that I'm thinking about it, weren't there a few times where winning treasure was split with the loosing crew as well? I seem to remember that noted on the table at some point too. When were those figures removed from the chart? Balder Odinson 17:32, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

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Talk:Pirate Master

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Contents

[edit] Great start, guys!

[edit] Legend of Henry Steel is fictional?

[edit] Weekly Crew Assignments

[edit] It doesn't make sense

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Pirate master logo.jpg

[edit] Current Booty column - impossible to track?

[edit] Ratings/Viewer Response

[edit] Crew of Captain Steel

[edit] Prize Money?

[edit] New Voting History Color

[edit] Voting reasons

[edit] Royal Pardon Section

[edit] Contestants Table has little value added.

[edit] Voting history

[edit] Weekly Crew Assignments

[edit] Generic rules

[edit] Using the Big Brother table

[edit] As of July 24

[edit] Suggestions for reducing redundancy in the tables

[edit] YARR!

[edit] CBS Innertube Streams

[edit] Ep10 info

[edit] Post Show

[edit] Black Spot/Episode Title

[edit] Kendra's Cut Adrift Day

[edit] Pirate Master Finale

[edit] We Have a Monetary Issue

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