Talk:Pennsylvania General Assembly
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[edit] 2005 Pay Raise
We must remove the following paragraph unless someone can a) provide references to source material to support the salary claims, since this is assertion is so contrary to media reports; and b) follow up on the excellent first sentence by explaining more than one point of view. -- rizzoj, 5/30/05
Whether or not the legislative pay raise is justified depends on the standard of comparison used. The legislature chose the standard of one half of Congressional pay to set the base salary for legislators. The legislative salaries are, with the pay raise, lower than the salaries of some teachers, school principals, school superintendents, college professors, borough and township managers, governmental lawyers, and professional staff at several governmental agencies.
I have the same compaint about this paragraph. References, references! Let's see some salary, education and work experience statistics on the "average Pennsylvanian" and "average Peennsylvania [sic] legislator" to back up these counterintuitive claims. -- rizzoj, 5/30/05
But they are considerably higher than the salaries of the average Pennsylvanian, who has both far less work experience and educational attainment than does the average Peennsylvania legislator. In addition, Pennsylvania legislators work far longer hours than does the average Pennsylvanian.
It should not be hard for me, and others, to produce these figures. It just involves checking out and union contracts,census data, and public salaries in general. Saying you want to see the figures is not saying these figures are wrong. Looking at the Pennsylvania Manual, for instance, easily documents the age of the average legislator (mid-50's) and average educational attainment of the average legislator (master's degree or professional degree). Census figures show that the average Pennsylvanian is far less educated and far younger (and thus less experienced in the workforce) than the average legislator.
I'll start producing data soon; others are welcome to do likewise. None of this should be shocking: running for office is a competitive process, and hard-working well-qualified people tend to win the vast majority of the time because of voter preferences in that direction. User:Zulitz/Zulitz,9/5/05
[edit] Salaries
In May, 2004, the Center for Workforce Information and Analysis of the Pennsylvania Department of Labor and Industry produced a detailed breakdown of occupational salaries within Pennsylvania. It broke managment occupations into 34 categories, and produced different average figures for each of these categories. The most relevant category for this current debate is the category of annual wages for experienced people. In 21 of these 34 categories, the average annual wages were higher than the base annual wages for state legislators after the pay raise.
Management categories higher in average salaries for experienced people were Chief Executives ($170,100), General and Operations Managers ($111,930), Advertising and Promotions Managers ($87,440), Marketing Managers ($106,360), Sales Managers ($104,940), Public Relations Managers ($82,920), Computer and Information Systems Managers ($109,230), Financial Managers ($94,080), Compensation and Benefits Managers ($82,050), Training and Development Managers ($87,600),Human Resource Managers, Other ($88,730),Industrial Production Managers ($94,400), Purchasing Managers ($88,250), Transportation, Storage, and Distribution Managers ($85,890), Construction Managers ($81,630),Education Administrators, Elementary and Secondary School ($88,980), Education Administrators, Post-Secondary ($87, 360), Engineering Managers ($113,220), Medical and Health Services Managers ($89,900), Natural Health Sciences Managers ($144,440), and Managers, Other ($86,650).
Other groups of experienced people earning higher salaries in May, 2004 than legislators after the pay raise include Management Analysts ($92,530),Personal Financial Advisors ($98,230), Computer and Information Scientists, Research ($105,090), Computer Software Engineers, Applications, ($84,160), Computer Software Engineers, Systems Software (87,360), Actuaries ($106,220), Chemical Engineers ($81,500), Computer Hardware Engineers ($94,090),Electrical Engineers ($82,150),Electronics Engineers, Escluding for Computers ($91,550),Marine Engineers and Naval Architects ($83,560),Nuclear Engineers ($88,250),Biochemists and Biophysicists ($84,940),Epidemiologists ($100,050), Life Scientists, Other ($88,870), Physicists ($104,320), Materials Scientists ($98,010), Hydrologists ($89,370), Physical Scietists, Other ($92,650), Lawyers ($127,890), Judges, Magistrate Judges, and Magistrates ($89,560), Business Teachers, Post-Secondary ($85,890), Architecuture Teachers, Post-Secondary, ($81,450), Engineering Teachers, Post-Secondary ($93,700), Agricultural Science Teachers, Post-Secondary ($94,150), Forestry and Science Teachers, Post-Secondary ($86,470), Atmospheric, Earth, Marine and Space Science Teachers, Post-Secondary,($89,650),Environmental Science Teachers, Post-Secondary ($87,160), Physics Teachers, Post-Secondary ($84,300), Anthropology and Archeology Teachers, Post-Secondary ($92,030), Area, Ethnic and Cultural Teachers, Postsecondary ($94,420), Economics Teachers, Postsecondary ($99,530),Geography Teachers, Postsecondary ($82,210), Psychology Teachers, Postsecondary ($82,450), Library Science Teachers, Postsecondary ($82,950), Social Work Teachers, Postsecondary ($86,740), Philosophy and Religion Teachers, Postsecondary ($82,510), Postsecondary Teachers, Other ($87,270), Athletes and Sports Competitors ($128,760),Chiropractors ($88,860), Dentists, General ($132,960), Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeons ($199,640), Optometrists ($117,260), Pharmacists ($85,180),Anesthesiologists ($199,560), Family and General Practicioners ($166,770), Internists, General ($164,170), Obstetricians and Gynecologists ($199,470), Pediatricians, General ($145,500), Psychiatrists ($157,590),Surgeons ($198,810),Physicians and Surgeons, Other ($167,690), Podiatrists ($114,740), Veternarians ($90,740), Health Diagnosing and Treating Practicioners, Other ($95,840), Supervisors-Non-Retail Sales Workers ($92,780), Securities, Commodities & Financial Services Sales Agents ($103,070), Sales Representatives, Technical and Scientific Projects, ($81,390), Real Estate Brokers ($81,150), and Air Traffic Controllers ($109,340).
More information from other sources will follow. User:Zulitz/Zulitz, 9/9/05, 01:34
[edit] Age
According to a press release from the U.S. Census Bureau dated May 10,2005, in 2002 "about 37% of working Pennsylvanians were age 45 or older." (http:www.census.gove/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/aging_populat...)
The December 2003 Pennsylvania Manual lists the year of the birth date for almost all state legislators in the 2003-2004 session (a few generally older legislators decline to list their year of birth.) A legislator who was 45 in 2004 would have been born in 1959. 41 of the 50 state senators--82%--were born in 1959 or later and were thus 45 or older sometime in 2004. 176 of the 203 state representatives--87%--were born in 1959 or later and were thus 45 or older sometime in 2004.
More information from other sources will follow. User:Zulitz/Zulitz, 9/9/05, 02:05
[edit] Education
According to Table DP-2 of the U.S. Census for Pennsylvania--2000 data released in 2002--the highest level of educational attainment for 14% of Pennsylvanians is a college degree and for 8.4% of Pennsylvanians is a graduate or professional degree. (http://www.census.gov/press-release/www/2002dptables/2k42.xls)
The 2003 Pennsylvania Manual lists the level of educational attainment for all legislators. In the Senate, 24 of the 50 members--48% have at least one graduate or professional degree. An additional 16 of the 50 members--32%--have a bachelor's degree. In summary, 80% have at least one college degree.
In the House, 63 of 203 members--31%-- have at least one graduate or professional degree. An additional 79 of the 203 members--39%--have a bachelor's degree. In summary 70% have at least one college degree.
More information from other sources will follow. User:Zulitz/Zulitz, 9/9/05, 03:28
[edit] Work hours
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics,Establishment Data, Historical House and Earnings, B-2, the average American non-supervisory workers in the private sector worked about 34 hours per week in August 2005, and about 34 hours per week in the provision of professional and business services. (ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/supp/empsit.ceseeb2.txt). Legislators, when interviewed, commonly say they work 50 to 60 hours a week, or about 50% to 75% longer than the average American non-supervisory worker.
According to the U.S. Census Bureau's Extreme Commute Ratings from the 2003 American Community Survey Summary Tables, less than 1.5% of all Pennsylvanians commute 90 minutes or more to work. But Philadelphia and Scranton are two hours from Harrisburg, Pittsburgh is four hours from Harrisburg, and Erie is six or seven hours from Harrisburg. The vast majority of Pennsylvania legislators have a much longer commute to Harrisburg than over 98% of Pennsylvania workers do to their jobs.
User:Zulitz/Zulitz, 9/9/05, 04:03
[edit] Separate article for pay controversy?
Should the pay raise controversey portion be split into a seperate article? It's taking up over half the page and isn't completely revalent to the article. 68.70.149.142 02:33, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
- I think it should be split. The pay raise controversy led to the first sitting Supreme Court judge to be defeated in a retention election, and a historically high number of incumbents defeated in the primaries, including two Senate majority leaders. Hartboy 02:17, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
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- I too think that it should be separated out. I came to Wikipedia specifically to search for a page about this incident, and I expected to find it on its own page (perhaps with a link from the General Assembly page). I believe that organization makes the most sense. mcherm 16:16, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Provincial Assembly?
This article is about the state's Assembly. Is there another article on the Assembly before PA became a state? I've been editing articles on Colonial-era representatives, and it doesn't seem appropriate to link them to this article. If such another article exists (I haven't been able to find it), it would be a good idea to link to it here, maybe under "See also". Otherwise, I'll create a stub.--BillFlis 06:18, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
- No one seems to have done this yet, so I created the stub Pennsylvania Provincial Assembly, along with Category:Members of the Pennsylvania Provincial Assembly, and populated it with a handful of articles. The terminology can be tricky because sometimes the colonial (or provincial) General Assembly and the General Assembly created by the 1776 constitution are treated as if they were the same thing. And then there's the bicameral General Assembly after 1790, which is essentially a new establishment but also sometimes referred to interchangeably with its historic predecessors. A nice list of the members of these various bodies is here. —Kevin Myers 08:04, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
