User talk:Montanabw

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Archive 2006 Archive 2007 Archive 3 User:Montanabw/Sandbox User:Montanabw/Gwinva-Medieval Sandbox

If people want to talk to me here, do so:

I sometimes archive and/or delete old stuff.

Contents 1 Happy New Year 2 Templates 3 Cross-country Fences 4 GA for Appaloosa 5 Converting 6 Interesting link/article 7 Appaloosa Photos 8 Smile 9 Added appaloosa Information you requested to appaloosa Talk page 10 Color things... 11 Shaps 12 Shaps II 13 Articles you might like to edit, from SuggestBot 14 Horse colors template 15 Hunter hack 16 ZfDP 17 Aly Pasha Sherif 18 NPOV  :) 19 Photos 20 Rodeo 21 Home! 22 Vandalism 23 Thoroughbred (again!) 24 Horse racing 25 Request for mediation 26 QH 27 Cold Bloods 28 Request for mediation accepted 29 MedCom Case 30 Protection 31 Pics 32 Livestock branding caption 33 Morgan Horses 34 Help 35 Articles you might like to edit, from SuggestBot 36 Mediation 37 Footnotes 38 World Cup. 39 Middle aged horses, springing spring and other matters 40 Homer Davenport 41 Equine/Ag projects 42 WT:GAU Survey 43 Thoroughbred 44 The man who saved the world 45 Mediation 46 GA stuff 47 TB 48 Thoroughbred 49 HitMA 50 Pony Breeds 51 Re: Earth to countercanter 52 Merging articles 53 Thanks 54 Horse riding styles 55 Australian Riding Pony 56 Brumbies 57 Damsire/Broodmare sire/Maternal grandsire 58 re impulsion at walk 59 Impulsion 60 Color stuff 61 Quick question 62 Vent 63 Sounds good 64 Pics 65 Heading out 66 Thoroughbred FAC 67 Must do. ASAP. 68 WHOOO!

[edit] Happy New Year

Hallo! I wish you a Happy New Year, all the best for 2008!. - Culnacréann (talk) 22:00, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Templates

No, I copy paste from this Wikipedia:Citation templates as well as from a cheat sheet I keep in the computer with the commonly used books already entered into the templates. I have an older version off my user space too: User:Ealdgyth/Horse References, which i need to update to the templates Ealdgyth | Talk 04:00, 1 February 2008 (UTC) I also find it really tedious to have to remember where the punctuation goes in the bibliographical entries, so I like the templates since it handles that for me. Template:Cite book and Template:Cite web have handy blank templates that you can copy and paste into your article. Ealdgyth | Talk 04:03, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cross-country Fences

What would your opinion be on making a page somewhat like Countercanter's Heavy warmblood page, except with all of the cross-country obstacles? There is a list of them here. As you can see, many of them are stubs, and honestly, I'm not sure how much you can say about some of them, so it seems like they'll just remain stubs. What I was thinking was a page listing each type of fence with a brief description (redirecting the pages already created to that individual section). Some of the obstacles would have a "see also: main page" heading (I'm thinking mainly for the water obstacle page, as this can be more easily expanded) and the already existing article would NOT be redirected. Whatcha think? It would prevent us from having 20 different stub articles hanging around, and would be easier to find, I think. Dana boomer (talk) 16:04, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I kind of like the idea, maybe list of "jumping obstacles by discipline" (because there is also a list of obstacles in show jumping too, some are kind of duplicates) but I'd put on the merge tags and wait a good two weeks before merging. This is for a very important reason: What the deal is here is that somewhere around two years ago, User:Eventer created dozens and dozens of articles on everything imaginable, some of which are excellent, some of which are stubs and all of which are largely unsourced. (She's pretty sharp, just doesn't footnote). These were, I think, all hers. She doesn't log into wikipedia much any more, but I see her pop in about once a month or so and I'd like to give her a chance to weigh in.

The other trick is organizing the "English" discipline articles in general, and I haven't paid a lot of attention to the article Eventing, but sometimes I wonder if the cross-country article couldn't be merged there. Another related problem is that I have tried several times to merge jumping position and two-point into a single article titled forward seat, the non-USA people apparently consider hunt seat a strictly American distinction (I suppose they are right) but lacking the energy to drag out the George Morris book myself and actually write a good overall article on the forward seat concept from Caprilli to the present, I have been shot down every time (yes I occasionally DO lose one! (grin)). A third aside is that some people have wondered if we should have a sport horse task force. A fourth aside is that "horseback riding" was long ago merged into equestrianism, which now also encompasses harness stuff just a touch, which is OK, but there is no overall history of horsemanship article, either (I have one in my sandbox I am sort of working on, kind of). Eventer commented a while back that we could use articles on the ancient la brida and la jineta styles, etc...Oh lordy, and we have a whole ton of riding master articles that aren't very good either.

But yes, if you want to slap merge tags on all the obstacle articles, I see no harm in it, and maybe create the "list" article, even if it winds up being just a list that links to the existing articles. Give me a shout as to what you decide. Montanabw^(talk) 19:42, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Allright, check it out at Cross country obstacles. I started out by having all of the show-jumping ones in it too, and naming it as you suggested, but it got a bit long and unwieldy. It's a bit choppy right now, because of the merge tags (which I'm still in the process of adding tonight, so if you read this before I'm done, please be patient). I think once everything's merged and smoothed out, with more content added, it'll look pretty cool. Thoughts? Dana boomer (talk) 02:56, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Allright, everything should be tweaked and tagged. If you see something off, please fix or let me know and I will. I'm about to go cross-eyed and brain dead, so it's quite possible that I missed something :P Also, I dropped a note on Eventer's talk page as an FYI to about what we're doing, asking for any comments. Dana boomer (talk) 03:28, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA for Appaloosa

Yay! Ealdgyth | Talk 03:09, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I hid from Wikipedia for a couple of days, glad that one made it through! Montanabw^(talk) 20:05, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Converting

It's Template:Convert to convert things between measurement systems. (grins) Ealdgyth | Talk 05:21, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Interesting link/article

• Widespread Origins of Domestic Horse Lineages Might be worth trying to integrate into a few articles. Ealdgyth | Talk 20:06, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
• Kathiawari horses Ealdgyth | Talk 20:10, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
• Genetics of Conformation Ealdgyth | Talk 20:13, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
• Racing Performances of Arabian horses Ealdgyth | Talk 20:14, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
• Sport Horse breeding this one looks more like Countercanter's alley. Ealdgyth | Talk 20:20, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
• Iberian Origins of New World Horse Breeds THAT looks interesting (and useful) Ealdgyth | Talk 20:25, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
• Irish Draught Ealdgyth | Talk 20:28, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
• Iberian Horse origins Ealdgyth | Talk 20:41, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

For Moi? Or is my talk page officially the WikiProject Equine sandbox and link repository? You see my list of "stuff to work in some day" list of links over on my man user page? LOL! Montanabw^(talk) 17:23, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

I think it's that everyone connected to the WPEQ talk page's are free for use as sandboxes (grins). We close today! Yay! Or not yay, since that means I have to actually... start work on building a house and moving fences and all that junk. Ugh! Ealdgyth | Talk 17:24, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Hooray for you. Of course, this now means you will be forced to have a real life... Montanabw^(talk) 17:31, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Appaloosa Photos

I have lots of good appaloosa photos on my website http://www.appaloosa.org and http://www.barnbuddy.net/gallery2/v/S_B/. Please let me know which ones you would like to use or what you need images of and I will upload them for you. They are all taken by me of my horses so we will have no copyright issues.

Thanks for all you do.

[edit] Smile

Couldn't find a hug (looks like they deleted it), but will a smile work?

Good, now breathe, step away from the computer, and go pet your horse for a while :)

[edit] Added appaloosa Information you requested to appaloosa Talk page

I have added some info to the appaloosa talk page. Please use what you want. I am not a wiki guru like you.

Thanks,

Bill —Preceding unsigned comment added by Appaloosas (talk • contribs) 16:01, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Color things...

"The eyes and skin of palominos and buckskins are often slightly lighter than their non-dilute equivalents." -- Locke, M. M.; Ruth, L. S.; Millon, L. V.; Penedo, M. C. T.; Murray, J. D.; Bowling, A. T.. The cream dilution gene, responsible for the palomino and buckskin coat colours, maps to horse chromosome 21. Animal Genetics, Dec2001, Vol. 32 Issue 6, p340-343.

Just to clear that up! Countercanter (talk) 19:05, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Shaps

Well, Wikipedia isn't a dictionary, so the etymology should go in Wiktionary. If you want to mention something about how cowboys pronounce it, then that can go in the article... Dreadstar † 05:56, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Mainly I did that because it seemed to be contentious. Some articles do have some historical etymology, like this. Dreadstar † 06:02, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Of course, how cowboys (and other horse people in the west) pronounce the word is what started this whole mess! Will study spoons most faithfully. Montanabw^(talk) 06:06, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Something could be said under the "history" section, and more detail can be added to the Wiktionary entry. Editing there is just like editing here, I have an account there too. Give it a shot. The Chaps etymology section in the Wikipedia article was waaay too convoluted... Dreadstar † 06:15, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and for your other question: Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a dictionary. Dreadstar † 06:16, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the thanks and the whole slew of beers! I never turn down a good beer...! Um, I've never received one of these before, so if I ever meet that threshold...feel free... (man, I feel like such a barnstarhore...se...;) Dreadstar † 19:03, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

When people actually engage in wiki-hugs, you'll be the first to know! (grin) Montanabw^(talk) 19:07, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Shaps II

We actually pronounced them as "shemps", but I think we misunderstood something somewhere. Dreadstar † 18:11, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

LOL! As I like to say, "ch" chaps is what happens to you if you don't wear "sh" chaps! But if I may mix my golden age comics, may I ask Who's on first? Montanabw^(talk) 22:41, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

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[edit] Horse colors template

Feel free to make any additions or modifications as you see fit. I went through Category:Horse coat colors and added all of those articles (except for maybe 2 that I thought were actually miscategorized breeds). Some of the articles were not clear whether they were referring to colors, markings, or patterns, so I may have grouped some of the articles incorrectly. I know that you want to have some sort of navigation template on each equine page. I am in the mindset that a template should only be on a page if the page is in the template, which is why I made this template. Let me know if you can think of other ways to use navigation templates to group articles. I don't know much about the topic, so change anything you think could be improved! --Scott Alter 01:38, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hunter hack

No beef from me. It's on the deadend page list. If you can help get it off... Trekphiler (talk) 17:25, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] ZfDP

As I'm sure you remember from high school history, Germany has traditionally had a lot of...well, regionalism? Like nationalism, only based on the regions. Hence the Hanoverian, Holsteiner, Oldenburger, Ostfriesen, Wurttemberger, Mecklenburger, Bavarian, Westphalian, Rhinelander, Thuringian, etc etc etc. being regional variations on the same flavor of ice cream, haha. The ZfDP was created I believe soon after the wall came down as an effort to unify. ZfDP just stands for German Horse Breeding Society. They register lots of types of horses, and do have a website. Their keyword/slogans are Progressiveness, Liberality, and...something else. Probably unity or something. Anyhow a ZfDP German Warmblood is a German Warmblood registered by the ZfDP. Perfectly legit but I think the size makes it a bit cumbersome so they may not offer the same caliber of monetary premiums. That's what premiums are, you know...St.Pr.St. means "We will pay you to register her babies with us, not them." :) Hope that clarifies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Countercanter (talk • contribs) 17:47, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Reply on your talk page. Montanabw^(talk) 16:11, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Aly Pasha Sherif

Hi, thanks for your post. Sorry for the delay in replying, I only just saw it.

He was my great great grandfather so this is family history passed on to me. I had a great grand-uncle who passed away about a year ago and whose mother lived with Ali Pasha until his death so he had first hand information. I have just finished reading the Journals and Correspondence of Lady Anne Blunt and there are many negative fallacies concerning him. She took the word of a broker and a groom for granted and never bothered to check up if that was true. Some day, when I have the time, I want to write something on his life and correct all these fallacies.

Best regards,

Gulsun Sherif gulsunsherif@hotmail.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gulsun Sherif (talk • contribs) 18:43, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV  :)

FYI: NPOV noticeboard fiador

If only we weren't so narrow-minded...

--Getwood (talk) 08:14, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Reply on your talk page. Montanabw^(talk) 00:24, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Photos

I've been wanting to get some more photos for some of the horse articles, and I know that you often use Flickr. How do you know which photos from there you're allowed to use on Wikipedia? Also, how do you go about uploading them to Wikipedia? Do you go through the Commons, or do you upload directly to WP? I haven't played around much with photos in the past, and I want to make sure I have a general idea of what I'm doing before I go about it willy-nilly :) Thanks! Dana boomer (talk) 14:25, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rodeo

I think that I missed heaps of vandalism here when I reverted an edit. Don't know how to fix it. Sorry! Cgoodwin (talk) 09:05, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Done. (You use the "History" page, click on buttons spanning the vandalism, then "Undo" – or edit the last good version of the page and save it unchanged). --Richard New Forest (talk) 11:28, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Home!

Home! And pooped! Car decided it needed a new wheel assembly yesterday morning so spent most of yesterday at a dealership getting that replaced. Ended up getting home a day late. Did pick up your favorite book, Hendrick's International Encyclopedia of Horse Breeds ..... Ealdgyth - Talk 02:13, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh man, nothing like car trouble! Glad you made it safe. Hendricks? Oh Bpppp! The existence of that book of "breeds" is driving me nuts. I think every crossbred mutt on the planet must be in there! I wish there was some standard that said to some of these "new breed" promoters: "you are a horse breeder, not a breed-creator." ARRGH!  :-P LOL! Montanabw^(talk) 00:16, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

Watchlist rodeo, calf roping, and steer wrestling. The PETA crowd is back. Two or three of us are watching and reverting, but, well, you know what happens with these things. Prefer to have admins on this sooner than later. May want to have several admins watching. FYI, as you patrol the history list, note that assorted wonderful Wikiproject Equine members are also patrolling and reverting. Montanabw^(talk) 01:02, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Edits like these: [1][2][3][4] are purely vandalism. The user was recently given a final warning so I've blocked the IP. Dreadstar † 02:40, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thoroughbred (again!)

I had kind of dropped the Thoroughbred article for a while, due to lack of time, and, frankly, lack of interest :) I've made a couple more tweaks to it recently, though, and was wondering if you'd take one last run through it before we nominate for GA? I know there's a rather long list of GA noms, so that process could take a while... Thanks! Dana boomer (talk) 16:01, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Horse racing

Thought you would like to know I have seconded your proposal to merge Thoroughbred horse racing into Horse racing here. --AeronM (talk) 03:22, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Request for mediation

Re Chaps I have filed a formal request for mediation here. Montanabw, Getwood, Dreadstar, and AeronM, to agree to mediation please go there and sign the Parties' agreement to mediate. If any of you do not agree to mediation, the request will be denied; of course, I hope all of you will agree. See Wikipedia:Requests for mediation for details about the mediation process. --Una Smith (talk) 04:21, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] QH

Oops. I must have missed that one while I was away. While I'm here.. what say you to trying to get Arabian horse to FA? Dare we dream? (grins) Anything to get away from the thought of all the mud my horses are rolling in... and the increase in the costs of feed....Ealdgyth - Talk 23:07, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

I saw the whole chaps thing. You'll note I'm ignoring it completely. (btw, I pronounce it CHaps, and I lived in Texas for years...) I get enough grief with the FA/GA stuff. Now that the stupid Franco-Mongol thing has closed, I'm avoiding controversy like the plague. Arabian horse or Horses in warfare or Appaloosa or Equine nutrition or Horses in the Middle Ages? I've already decided to take Easy Jet to FA, so that's a given.

You are a wise person! I would be most comfortable with Working on Horses in Warfare for GA, though the military history gang didn't like the lack of sourcing in one section (the bit on sizes of horses), and there is no tougher assessor than Wandalstouring, who I nearly strangled before the article got to GA, but now, compared to what I've been through since, Wandal is a pussycat filled with sweetness and light. He is worth consulting on it. Gwinva would be the one to discuss the middle ages article with, as she was lead author there. If she's up for it, I would wholeheartedly support that one as well. Montanabw^(talk) 23:22, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

We NEED to get Horse up too. It sucks. Okay, not quite suck, but it could be lots better. But we can wait for things to calm down some also. I can't get excited about Equine nutrition quite honestly. Maybe I'll drop a note on Gwinva's page about the Warfare and Middle Ages ones. Appaloosa is probably a bit of a stretch for FA, there just aren't the depth of sources that the TB's have. I think we mined most of what's available for the GA status. Ealdgyth - Talk 23:31, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

I think Horse probably needs to be the #1 priority for fumigation, cleanup, and (sometime this century) maybe GA status. The main problem with Horse is that it was one of those articles that showcases the flaws of wikipedia, in that it started short, grew out of control, got sections (properly) split off, but no reorganization of what's left, which is, at best, a mishmash. (Though, by popular request, I learned that the question of whether horses REALLY sleep standing up is of great importance to non-horse poeple) (grin). Anyway, follow your heart, but if you need me to do a LOT of work, we shall have to wait until I don't log onto wiki wondering which 10 articles are going to be screwed up this time. Montanabw^(talk) 23:35, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cold Bloods

I have reverted your edit for two reasons. First, instead of trashing my entire contribution, all you had to do was change the word "all" ponies to "some" or "most," which I have done. Second, pony breeds were not used for draft work as a rule. See horse talk page for more comment. --AeronM (talk) 01:23, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I didn't "trash" your contribution, I removed an inaccurate statement. And, actually, shetland ponies were used for draft work, see pit pony. Montanabw^(talk) 02:05, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Please read my comment more carefully; I did not say ponies were never used for draft work. --AeronM (talk) 14:15, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Request for mediation accepted

A Request for Mediation to which you were are a party has been accepted. You can find more information on the case subpage, Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Chaps. For the Mediation Committee, WjBscribe 03:15, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

This message delivered by MediationBot, an automated bot account operated by the Mediation Committee to perform case management.
If you have questions about this bot, please contact the Mediation Committee directly.

[edit] MedCom Case

Hi, I'm Keilana. I've just accepted the aforementioned MedCom case. I've commented on the Mediation talk page, where mediation will take place. I hope that this mediation will be productive and satisfactory to all. I have asked all participants to make a statement, more details are on the talk page. Regards, Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 03:43, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Protection

Yes, protection expired, so the bot automatically removed the tag since it was no longer needed. I didn't want to protect it indefinitely, and I'll let the mediator decide what is best on the subject of protection. Dreadstar † 04:50, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Oh, definitely. No vandalism and no edit warring either. Dreadstar † 05:03, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pics

Well, from South America (Chile, in fact) I have these Image:Chileansaddlebeta.jpg and Image:Chileansaddlealpha.jpg. Still working on other culls. Spent a good four hours today pulling PVC fencing. Whee. Ealdgyth - Talk 03:13, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your support. Cgoodwin (talk) 05:03, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Any time. And for future reference, this is proof I don't torture puppies and eat baby bunnies! (grin) Montanabw^(talk) 05:17, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Livestock branding caption

Greetings. I think that photo is more appropriately captioned "A cattle rancher brands a young steer..." I'm not sure my cousin's husband would understand being demoted to a mere ranch hand on his own 6,000 acre ranch. --Mud4t (talk) 06:09, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Answer on your talk page. Montanabw^(talk) 06:12, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure I follow your logic. Are you suggesting that Wikipedia requires that photo to be incorrectly captioned? --Mud4t (talk) 06:33, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

On Livestock branding I edited the image caption; is it acceptable now? --Una Smith (talk) 22:20, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Believe it or not, it is. An elegant solution, describing what is happening, not who is doing it. I'm happy if Mud4t is. Montanabw^(talk) 02:44, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, now the caption is 100% correct. Crisis averted. --Mud4t (talk) 06:02, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Morgan Horses

Considering that you undid my editing to the morgan horse page, I think that you really need to research morgan horses because what I added was all correct: the most typical morgan class is a class of horses that look like justin morgan, the judging of saddle classes is 60% performance and 40% conformation, the average height for a morgan is now up to 16 hands and the qualifications for nationals are a placing of 1st to 8th at a regional show. Also, the pictures on that page are not "typical" morgans. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chendrickson2 (talk • contribs) 03:34, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

As answered in more detail on your talk page, my source are the Morgan rules. You deleted sourced material and blanked photos. That's not cool on wiki. Montanabw^(talk) 03:49, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Help

I am new to Wikipedia, but we, the morgan show circuit, are sick of being misrepresented. The pictures on that page are NOT typical morgans, they dont look like morgans at all. Our barn has 47 morgans that represent all of the different types of the breed and not a single one of them looks like that. If you look in a horse breed book and look up morgan you'll find the same thing as that page and it is an outrage. I, myself have 3 world championship titles and our barn has won 52 world championships and we are not going to stand for this anymore. Every other breed is acurately represented except ours. The morgan standard has changed so much that in one issue of the Morgan Connection they wrote an article about the new standard and put pictures of what the new typical morgan should look like. I need your help in changing this page so that when someone looks up the morgan breed they can actually find morgans that look like morgans. I can get permission from show photographers for pictures and the morgan association president, Mike Goebig. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chendrickson2 (talk • contribs) 16:24, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Better to take photos and upload them to Commons so all can use them. And cite your sources. And also be willing to address the reality that not all Morgan breeders are happy about seeing their breed looking like glorified Saddlebreds. More details on your talk page. Montanabw^(talk) 07:31, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

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[edit] Mediation

Yes, I was just getting to that; I only just got online. :) I can't comment on the content, as one of the principal tenets of mediation is that the mediator is unequivocally neutral, and cannot mediate if he or she has a bias. I have no opinion either way; please see my comments there. Best, Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 22:39, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Replied there, hopefully this can be worked out soon. I'm really pleased with you guys. Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 22:58, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Footnotes

Yep, they can be for more, but it's not worth fighting over for those. It's just like the controversy section, there really isn't anythng that really requires us to move it into the main body, but it's not really worth fighting over. yes, I know, it goes against your law background, but... its just the way things are on wiki. (grins) I think this is why I deal well with the GA and FA process better than you do. Just leave it to dana and I, and we'll deal fine. (tickles) Ealdgyth - Talk 14:33, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] World Cup.

Dakar El Jamaal won the over 12 stallion class. *Wadim came in 2nd. *Simeon Sehavi won the 9-11 mares class, with the second highest score of the show. Highest was a filly, with 565. Championships are tomorrow. (Our friend's filly, who is 2, won her class with a 554. Cross your fingers for her tomorrow!) I like the system, although it's not quite what we're going to for halter in the normal class A shows, I don't think. Still some politics. I have gossip (grins) Ealdgyth - Talk 01:44, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Middle aged horses, springing spring and other matters

Enjoying a lovely warm spring?!

Real Life has calmed down for me, so I'm now doing too much here. I've had a look at Horses in the Middle Ages and jotted down a few thoughts of what needs to be done to FA-it, if you're still interested. If you're sitting there really bored, then have a look at James Graham (soldier) and tell me what needs doing to it to bring it up to GA. I'm also still planning to go for FA for Early thermal weapons. As you've seen, Wandalstouring has a few ideas, but I'm not sure I'll wait around the months he suggests before he can read up! Ah well, others seem to like it (see A-Class review). Gwinva (talk) 05:43, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Ah, yes, the lead section. I can never write them, and begin to hate them with a vengeance! Why am I so inept? In fact, that goes for the whole "sparkling prose" thing. Give me paper and a pen and I can write anything; stick me in front of a computer screen, with a few facts and I end up rather stilted and dull. I wonder if I should write things out on paper first?! Wandalstouring calls my writing "stubby", but I heard some refer to it as "concise", whcih I like better! Ok, so more context for Waterloo and a grabbier opening so you don't get bored. How about big flashing lights and "this guy saved the world!"? Gwinva (talk) 05:07, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

He stood alone against Napoleon, bravely claiming VICTORY when all others failed

?! Gwinva (talk) 05:31, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

EXACTLY!!!!! Except! That more exclamation points also help! LOL!! Montanabw^(talk) 21:51, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Homer Davenport

I was going to comment on the talk page there, but that seemed a bit formal, so here I am. Just jotting down a few thoughts as they come to me. After all your earlier comments, what can I say but: Lead! Needs expanding, certainly, even if you don't opt for the flashing light hook-the-reader version. I didn't really know why this guy was important. The earlier sections (esp career) need better referencing. There are two books listed in the references which have no inline citations pointing to them at all. The "personal life" section is a bit of a miscellaneous catch-all; its hard to know what it's for. Either needs expanding, or distributing amongst other sections: family with early life, perhaps, festival with career (it relates to his drawing, not his personal life; would be nice to know why they hold a festival, too) and the farming stuff as a intro into his horse interests, perhaps. The Arabian stuff seemed a bit dense for me coming in cold (or perhaps I'm just tired): I got a bit confused with sultans and bedouins (and what was the breach in protocol? The earlier prose is a bit loose (it almost reads like a personal tribute); I guess that's not yours. And, a minor matter, you don't catch pneumonia standing on a dock. So, there are my first thoughts. Enough to put you off? Don't get too carried away: need you to work on HitMA. Gwinva (talk) 09:19, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, when I reread the article a lot of holes jumped out at me, too. HitMA is more important, though to go FA, I'd say your Early Thermal Weapons article is a lot closer. Montanabw^(talk) 21:50, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Equine/Ag projects

Oh, I added Agriculture to the related section, not the parentage. I didn't want to presume, and I didn't see it above. I removed the duplicate, and thanks a bunch for the note. VanTucky 20:12, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WT:GAU Survey

Answering your question about where to respond: Talk:Thoroughbred#Survey is good. Thanks! - Dan Dank55 (talk)(mistakes) 03:13, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thoroughbred

Hey. When you get a chance, could you head back to talk:Thoroughbred? In the on hold section, I introduced some potential changes to the Health section that I did in my sandbox at User:Getwood/Sandbox/Thoroughbred. So far Dana boomer has been happy, and Ealdgyth has made a few tweaks. If you wouldn't mind, could you take a peek and see what you think? It would be great if we could install it as a stable entity soon. VanTucky is a bit worried about us doing too much tweaking. I don't think I did anything radical, but tried to get it to smooth out a bit. Thanks, Getwood (talk) 00:43, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The man who saved the world

I've made a few changes at James Graham (soldier). Hope the lead's now attention grabbing enough (even without the flashing lights). I've also expanded all the stuff about the wars and given a little potted history of the campaign; when you get a moment, can you have a quick read and tell me if it all makes sense, if it works, or if it is too much and you lose sight of the Coldstream Guards/Graham thing. I want to explain the context of Bergen op Zoom and Waterloo, but not lose Graham amidst it all. Thanks!! Gwinva (talk) 09:09, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for looking over it. I've added a bit more Grahamy specifics, so that helps, too. I might give it a whirl at GA. I've had it down for peer review at WP:Military History, but no one's commented for ages. It's been kind of fun to write, anyway; I only started it because I noticed there wasn't an article, and got rather carried away (I tend to do that: Early thermal weapons started as a correction of the "boiling oil" myth!). I see you're still waiting for Thoroughbred GA: a tough review! Gwinva (talk) 03:31, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Will peek. Yes, the reviews in general have slowed to a crawl. Ealdgyth and Dana did most of the recent work on TB, and they are to be commended. If you are in a reviewing mood, can you take a look at cowboy --but reply here -- with any ideas about that article? I'd like to clean it up some more and maybe move it toward GA (like a few months from now!), but there are some real rough spots that would benefit from an outside eye by someone who is not necessarily familiar with the subject. Beware: It's a long article and, like Horses in Warfare, was one of those that was already established when I started playing with it, and many sections didn't change much from what has been done three or four years ago! Montanabw^(talk) 04:30, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Got him! Thanks for the help along the way – Gwinva (talk) 00:32, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Hooray for you! Did you see the little user box you can use to count your GA's I have it on my user page, and I swiped it from Ealdgyth's. Montanabw^(talk) 03:49, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Mediation

Congratulations! I know it was a long haul, but worthwhile in the end. Looks to be a very nice compromise. Dreadstar † 20:11, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA stuff

See you have it for Thoroughbred! Well done. I haven't forgotten about cowboy: I took a quick look, then decided it needed more than a quick look to do it justice. Are you mad? Or know French?! I see it's GA there. Anyway, I'll do you a report at some point. Gwinva (talk) 02:52, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] TB

[edit] Thoroughbred

Thoroughbred made GA tonight! Yay! Here's a little toy to put on your user page. {{User Good Articles|#}} and you put the number of GAs you've contributed to in place of the #. Thanks so much for the help! Ealdgyth - Talk 02:58, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] HitMA

Thanks for all the bit stuff! Still getting my head around it. I've added a section on tack at HitMA: just the bare bones so far, but a place to start working. Do check my caption! Gwinva (talk) 06:02, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Didn't notice you pop in to HitMA: I'm wandering around a bit randomly. Yep, "chariots" was the word, although they're not the roman type: "a queen's chariot was originally a large, rather lumbering vehicle of wood and iron" and shows a picture of a large, lumbering four wheeled wagon. I'll explain; but it made me laugh, anyway (I was too deeply medieval to think roman)! Gwinva (talk) 04:37, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I'll leave you to it. I was about to throw in some more trade and professions stuff, but as I'm supposed to be somewhere else right now, it's no bad thing to be sent away! Yes, camels! Don't laugh...! As to dates..I'm sure I have sources somewhere which show the breast collar at the earlier date, but the rigid collar at ≈ 9th C. So we'll start a little edit war between us??!! Anyway, as we did with horse sizes, we can "teach the controversy". Anyway, I must go. But first I need to fight my way past the mountain of open books scattered across desk and floor. If I never return, you'll know I've been buried alive. Gwinva (talk) 05:04, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pony Breeds

OK, my thoughts are that the Bhutia and Spiti Ponies should definitely be merged, because they seem to be almost exactly the same thing (slight difference in height, but more types of the same breed than individual breeds).

One source that says this is HERE, which isn't a fully reputable site, I know, but does have more info than I'm able to find other places.

The Tibetan I'm not so sure of, as the article for it did seem to show that it retained some individual characteristics and did have a slightly different history. However, both the Oklahoma State site and the site I linked to above say that the Tibetan is very close to the Bhutia/Spiti.

Someone (you possibly?) had dumped a bunch of merge tags on all three pages a while ago, which was what had first brought it to my attention (the cleanup listing page has become my best friend for short to-do projects!). IMHO, the Bhutia and Spiti Ponies should stay merged, but I'm on the fence about the Tibetan. All three breeds have little info about them available, I think, and they all seem to be of the same type - hardy little Asian crossbreds. Dana boomer (talk) 14:38, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

OK, I've turned Tibetan Pony back into its own article, and changed the wording around a little bit on both articles, plus adding some wikilinks and an external link to the I live for Horses site. None of it's referenced very well, but I'll get to that at some point... *grin*. Does this all work for you? Dana boomer (talk) 18:03, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Earth to countercanter

My calculus final is in an hour, wish me luck! Graduation is in about a week, so I'll be back around then. I'm just on Wiki right now to look up some obscure integrals...ew. Countercanter (talk) 10:40, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

GOOD LUCK! Montanabw^(talk) 23:52, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merging articles

We've got quite a few articles with merge tags on them (many of which you put there, I think!), and I wanted to get your opinion on whether the tags should be removed or the articles merged. Here they are (with my opinion if I have one).

• Rodeo and History of rodeo
• Forehand (horse) and equine forelimb anatomy
• Horse breaking and natural horsemanship
• Horse floater and Horse teeth
• Sorrel (horse) and Chestnut (coat)
• Russian Heavy Draft and Soviet Heavy Draft - I could see a page with these two breeds, plus the Vladimir Heavy Draft, Estonian Draft and Lithuanian Heavy Draft, as all of these breeds were formed through USSR state-sponsored breeding programs. Don't know what you would call the page, though...
• Flores pony and Timor Pony - Seem to be different breeds, but not much available on them.
• Narym Pony and Ob pony - Seem to be different breeds, but not much available on them.
• Old English Black and Shire horse - I seem to recall a discussion on your talk page regarding this a while ago. Was there every any consensus formed?
• Gotland Pony and Öland horse - Would agree to a merge, with the Gotland page being the main one.
• Sardinian (horse) and Sardinian Pony - Would agree to a merge, with the Sardinian Horse page being the main one.
• Diamond`s Exchange to Jessica Kürten - I would say yes
• Arko to Nick Skelton - I would say yes

Let me know what you think on these. We don't have to take care of them all right now, but it would be nice to get some of the tags taken care of! Dana boomer (talk) 14:13, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Replies with this list on your talk page. Montanabw^(talk) 05:33, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments! If you could check the list again on my page, it would be great. I've completed several of the merges/tag tossings, but on others I have reply comments for you. I've indented them under the original bullet point to make them easier to read. There are a couple that I haven't done anything with...the hard ones that I haven't felt like fighting with yet :) Thanks! Dana boomer (talk) 20:24, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Another look, pretty please?!?! Thanks much! Dana boomer (talk) 20:16, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Hi, thanks for the compliments on the hackney article. Thanks also for editing it further; you made the wording better where it needed to be improved (and the placement of the pictures and their captions). I took all the pictures on the page myself.

I have saddlebreds, and my parents used to have hackney show ponies, so I do know a bit about driving. I do hope to make more contributions in the future to horse articles, especially with photographs (since I'm a horse photographer). I am new here, though I've been using Wikipedia for years now, so I'll probably need some help on articles some time in the future.

Equinologist (talk) 00:21, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Horse riding styles

Seen the work you've done at HitMA: I am around, just can't seem to settle! Anyway, further to discussion about riding styles, and possibly right the realm of OR, (unless you have a source somewhere?) but can the change in riding style be seen in the changes in horse preferences, or am I way off? Anyway, Clark makes ref to a 12th C source who describes amblers as lovely horses and trotting horses as "those which suit esquires, moving roughly and speedily". In further discussion, amblers remained the most popular type for rest of the middle ages, but by 17th 18th C, trotters are now more popular, and the preference for amblers is seen as old-fashioned. Clark then refers reader to "discussion of gaits and riding styles" in this book, pp. 61-7 Don't suppose you've access to a copy? Gwinva (talk) 02:07, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

The assessment of the photos is probably OR, but we can use captions if one of them demonstrates something we need to illustrate. As for the riding style, the images you had up were all long stirrups, longer stirrups and yet longer stirrups, all based on la brida style riding for security in the saddle. If you want me to compare any two in particular, just holler. A modern la jineta rider is someone like in the show jumping or jumping position articles -- shorter stirrups, forward position. Montanabw^(talk) 03:00, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

ok. But what I was wondering was whether there is a connection between the change in riding styles, and the increased preference for trotters over amblers? Seemed to happen about the same time. Gwinva (talk) 03:28, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Ah! Deb Bennett answers this very question. I'll have to look up what she actually says, but the short version from my memory is that the preference for trotters over amblers was based on multiple factors. Truth is, in Europe, the la brida seat with the deep-seated saddle, later adding long stirrups, was probably a bit older than the la jineta seat, which arrived with the Arabs (and probably other invaders from the east as well, as I shall explain below).

Before I go further, check out this painting: Image:Higueruela.jpg, Moors versus Europeans, the Moors, on horses withhigh-carried tails (i.e Arabian type) are riding la jineta, short legs, etc., the Euros are riding la brida on the horses with low-carried tails, which looks like me to include at some plain rouncey types, a lot of charger-looking horses (in the line) and a couple desterier/Baroque horse types (the ones on their hind legs, mostly behind the front lines). You can see all sorts of things to compare: weapons, riding styles, shield style, use of the lance, etc...

First off, amblers are not fast horses at the gallop. There is a conformation tradeoff between a smooth intermediate ambling gait and the ability to just run like hell, or, for that matter, to really coil and spring or jump. Thus, Amblers are great for traveling long relatively slow=paced distances with the army or on a pilgrimage, when your average pace is a walk or trot, but they are neither good racehorses at any distance (neither sprints nor marathons) nor good at the powerful hindquarter turns and springing movements of warfare, now part of classical dressage. Thus, (expanding beyond Bennett a bit) I am guessing that the Destrier probably was not a natural ambler; modern Andalusians, Friesians and Lipizzaners, all descendants, usually do not naturally amble, though I suspect they could be artificially trained to produce it. Likewise, the distance speed horses, like Arabians and Thoroughbreds, do not amble. (A few Arabs can be trained to amble, but it isn't something they do naturally out in the pasture the way a Paso Fino or Tennessee Walking Horse does). So even at the beginning of the period, the Islamic invaders came into Spain on horses that trotted and galloped. To ride these horses effectively, you need to get off their backs at bit, plus they had a different style of saddle, and thus they had to ride with shorter stirrups and the la jineta seat. (The Koran also has one of the earliest reference to use of horseshoes, too, by the way).

Second, the demise of the knight (see horses in warfare) gave rise to the Thoroughbred-y or Warmbloodish cavalry horse -- Rounceys, Hobbies, Chargers and such lightened up a bit an came into their own, assorted crossbreds developed by crossing in more Arab blood on existing types, or even using purebred Arabians, like this guy: Image:Evstafy Sangushka.jpg The need was for an officer's horse to just go all day long, back and forth on the battlefield, as fast as practicable, which meant a long trot or gallop. An ambling horse would physically break down in such conditions (Today, endurance riding is dominated by Arabians, followed by assorted tough, small, lean breeds like the Appaloosa, Mustang (horse) and the occasional mule. Gaited horses (amblers) lack the stamina and also are more prone to break down, particularly in the stifle joint (see horse anatomy) for a parts chart) and they are a bit long in the back and get quite sore by the end of the day.) Put bluntly, if you can ride the trot and not tire yourself out, a trotting horse will outpace an ambler by the end of the day (though the rider on the ambler will certainly be less tired and will be able to kick the butt of the rider on the trotting horse in a fight at the end of the day! LOL!)

Third, the roads got better, wheeled vehicle suspension got better, and hence fast-moving carriage horses came into in greater demand. Again, the physics of horses dictate that they can pull harder and longer at a trot than an amble, which is unneeded for pulling a wheeled vehicle. Thus, the heavy horses in demand for carriage work had to trot too, especially if you wanted some speed. See, for example Cleveland Bay or Dutch harness horse. So, by the 16th or 17th century or so (must check exact dates), the main market for amblers was in the new American colonies, where plantation agriculture made them handy for the owners and overseers to travel the fields all day, checking up on their workers (usually slaves). Thus most of the ambling horses in Europe got shipped over to the western hemisphere, which is where you still see the biggest population today. (See gaited horse).

Oh yeah, and the official word (which may be not wholly accurate, as we have discovered before) was that posting to the trot was invented by the "post boys" who had to ride on the lead horse of a carriage team (they helped direct and control larger teams, etc., need to research more details). Now I personally think posting is so natural that it had to have been invented prior to the Renaissance or Enlightenment, (though possibly outside of Europe) but officially it was not until then that riders of trotting horses had the need to ride a trot for long periods, before then, the trot was just a few steps taken between the walk and the gallop.

So take what of that is useful, cite to Deb Bennett if you want (or just cite tag) and I'll find the pages and tweak the details as I can. Montanabw^(talk) 05:22, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for that explanation! By the way, check out this: Gwinva (talk) 22:34, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

I am working on it, so don't think I've ignored all your helpful explanations...it's just that I've become side-tracked by creating 52nd (Oxfordshire) Regiment of Foot. Makes a change from medieval horses, anyway! Gwinva (talk) 04:57, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Australian Riding Pony

Would you please take a look at the above and make edits as you see fit. I think that I might have mucked up the re-direction. Sorry about that! Cgoodwin (talk) 05:19, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Brumbies

Thanks for your nice work on the Brumbies article. Especially with the contention-reduction approach, something I will add to my box of tricks. Not that I do much editing these days :-( Please keep it up - you never know, if/when I acquire more knowledge and time I might even be able to help! --Ossipewsk (talk) 00:21, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Glad to hear it! Thanks! Montanabw^(talk) 04:29, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Damsire/Broodmare sire/Maternal grandsire

I think I originally had Broodmare sire there, but in the Easy Jet FAC folks didnt' know what that meant, so i changed it to Maternal grandsire, which more non-horse folks are likely to understand. Damsire, I do actually hear, but not as much as broodmare sire, but I suspect that Mgrandsire's our best option. Ealdgyth - Talk 02:37, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

I just reverted whoever switched it back to "damsire." It's your baby, I am OK with whatever you want to do with it. Montanabw^(talk) 03:15, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] re impulsion at walk

Trust me, I promise the walk does not have impulsion. I'm a dressage judge, we're sort of expected to know these things ;). Gaits and movements without suspension, can't have impulsion. This includes the walk, and piaffe. I wouldn't have made the edit if it weren't accurate. Salito (talk) 11:50, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Answered on your talk page in more detail. Impulsion can exist without suspension, as can collection, maybe not in some dressage specs for judging, but it exists. Montanabw^(talk) 02:56, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Impulsion

Thank you for your note. I tend to forget there is a world outside of dressage (wink).

I was able to find a reference to Impulsion in the USDF Glossary of Judging Terms. I don't know if you'd be interested in incorporating it into the article or not, I saw you made a lot of changes and adding references etc. I don't want to mess up what you did, but here is another reference if you're interested:

"IMPULSION Thrust. Releasing of the energy stored by engagement. The energy is transmitted through a back that is free from negative tension and is manifested in the horse's elastic, whole-boy movement. Note 1: Impulsion is associated with a phase of suspension such as exists in trot and canter, but which doesn't exist in walk or piaffe. Therefore, impulsion is not applicable to the walk or the piaffe."

Source: USDF Glossary of Judging Terms, as printed in the 2007 USDF Directory.

Note 1 seemed to be the most relevent. Learner dressage judges also are taught there is no impulsion in the walk, and not to make comments when judging which refer to impulsion in the walk. Instead, words like activity, energy, or even the more vague "forward" are to be used.

Salito (talk) 12:13, 26 May 2008 (UTC) (Salito (talk) 12:13, 26 May 2008 (UTC))

Yes, I can add that. Thanks. More on your talk page. Montanabw^(talk) 01:50, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Color stuff

I took out the phrase "no spotting patterns" in the genetics section because white markings (be it a snip, leopard complex blanket, or sabino-white) don't make a horse not black, and I think this is important to stress in an encyclopedic article.

As to the foal colors of smoky blacks:

[5] Approve Black Gold with "teal eyes" at birth. Buckskin and palomino foals often have blue eyes at birth.

[6] MEMC Ladyhawke "If you look closely you can see the bluish eyes that many cream dilute foals are born with."

[7] Concealed Gold shows the orangish ear tufts and blue eyes. "This foal, like many dilutes, has blue eyes at birth that will later darken."

On my "to do" list are to clean up the cream article and give more colors their own articles. I really want to make the palomino and buckskin articles about the colors, moving the "breed registry" info to its own section. I'd also like to modify the white markings article to make it more clear that there's not really much difference between a snip and tobiano...that it's all just white markings. So, that's my list.

Countercanter (talk) 15:36, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

OK, reply in more detail on your talk page. Montanabw^(talk) 22:47, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

"Approve Black Gold" is not champagne, but a smoky black sired by a perlino.

From whom have you heard that single-dilute foals do not, contrary to popular belief, often have blue eyes and pink skin at birth and then darken? I have heard from breeders, as have the constructors of these websites, that single-dilute foals are often born with blue eyes that darken with age.

"MEMC Ladyhawke" is not champagne, but a smoky black. Her sire is MEMC Tequila Quervo [8] (cremello) and her dam is Aswyn Nora Ashbrook [9] (smoky black). MEMC Ladyhawke has NO champagne phenotype OR genotype. Her breeder is a color breeder and if either of her horses had champagne in play, they'd know and be capitalizing on it. Tequila Quervo has *plenty* of offspring; if he were hiding champagne, he'd have produced one by now.

Also from the same breeder: [10] Blue eyes as a newborn; [11] Definitely palomino.

[12] Another blue-eyed palomino baby. [13] Same foal slightly older.

[14] Buckskin baby.

Further to this point, read [15] case study. Kalamino is not champagne.

Shall I go on? Countercanter (talk) 00:38, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Answer in more detail on your talk page. I see no university studies here, that's what I'd like to see. Montanabw^(talk) 03:15, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

This I understand. My only comment at this point is that Kalamino's chances of being champagne/pearl fall not under the heading "could very well be" but rather "would be incredibly unlikely." I'm sure we'll come to the bottom of this. Countercanter (talk) 15:20, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I'm a little uncertain about the varnish in the newer photo only because I think he happens to combine true roan and varnish. The other photo, while not as pretty, is less ambiguous. Countercanter (talk) 00:04, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh, but that is a CLASSIC roaned out Appy. See them out here all the time. That other one, to me, was more ambiguous because the head was so light (LOL). Montanabw^(talk) 08:17, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Right, it looks like a classic roan that is also varnish. The light head on the other one illustrated the difference between true, classic roan (dark head) and varnish roan (dark bony bits). Countercanter (talk) 15:19, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Quick question

Who else do we need to have co-nom at Thoroughbred? Dana, you, me? We three are the high contributors, but Cgoodwin and Getwood helped too. I'm hoping to get it up tomorrow (I always forget how much work a big ranch is... dang!) Ealdgyth - Talk 00:49, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Cgoodwin and Getwood for sure. If we need warm bodies to support us, maybe also ask User:Culnacreann, User:CuddyWitter and some of the others who have graciously done vandal patrol and otherwise run interference for us. Countercanter has been a valuable contributor on some articles and might help. JoelMills from WikiProject Veterinary Medicine may also be willing to say "aye," though I think he's a small animal vet. That's my short list. Montanabw^(talk) 03:10, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Heh. You're thinking supporters, I'm thinking people who contributed so much to getting it ready for GA/FAC that they need to share the credit for the nomination. Different things entirely. Ealdgyth - Talk 12:25, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

And it's up. Ealdgyth - Talk 12:41, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Vent

Venting's good, hope all is well. Thanks for the cookie, here's a smile for ya..;) Dreadstar † 16:43, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sounds good

Yum. Weaseling suits me fine.

The foundation bloodstock article looks nice and is quite thorough, though it reads a bit novelishly. In the second section, perhaps you ought to pare down the discussion of open/closed studbooks unless you plan to add in a link between the warmblood studbooks and foundation stock. What is the source? I resisted attacking the Thoroughbred section on "breed characteristics" with a steak knife...or my bare hands. I hope you're proud.

It is unethical, I think, to mislead people by citing sources that are known to be wrong. Just because somebody wrote it down and paid the publisher doesn't make it credible. And I direct both comments out generally, not at you. But I have major qualms with that and all other sorts of prejudicial comments that crawl out of the creepy, rotting remains of imperialism. Ew. To that end, I will state that of the many KIT mutations that produce white patterns that are present in the Thoroughbred population, roan ain't one of 'em. I have a university source that discusses KIT mutations (Haase et al. "Allelic Heterogeneity at the Equine KIT Locus in Dominant White (W) Horses" 2007) with Thoroughbred subjects.

As to "roan": What then is the protocol when it is a known falsehood quoted from literature that is mistaken, or at least takes cues from informal definitions? Do we take out the wikilink so that it doesn't mislead people into thinking that Thoroughbreds have the roan GENE, but keeps the word "roan" in the article? Should we modify the roan article to explain false roans like rabicanos, varnishes, greys etc? Explain the disparity between using the word "roan" on registration papers and True Roan, the genetic color? [16] Is this source sufficient? Countercanter (talk) 20:44, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Huh? I'm missing something here. News to me that there is an issue with roan in Thoroughbreds? Or is the roan article the problem? No, I wouldn't toss the wikilink, (fixing the wikilinked article a better solution) and if the Jockey Club says TBs come in roan, even if it's really sabino or something then what...tell the breed's own registry that they are wrong? If you have a good source for that, maybe show us. As for the color stuff, I sympathize, I DID do something like that on roan versus Sabino and [{Rabicano]] in the Arabian article, AHA also uses "roan" for rabicano and some sabino horses, Arabs probably don't come in true genetic roan, either, but the registry hasn't figured that out yet) but everyone helping work on it for FA feels all the color stuff is bloating the thing down...no win sometimes...

I didn't note anything comparing the KIT locus to Roan coloring (In which article??) Care to explain? I'm all for getting things straight...but not sure what imperialism has to do with it? (smile?) Just fill in some blanks, seems a couple sentences got left out between your thinking and my talk page...?

How about you go in and use hidden text on the foundation bloodlines article where you want to take a knife to it! (grin)? You know, my favorite <!--sticking annoying comments in different places--> thing? That way, I'll know where you are concerned and take a look at those parts again. As for the open and closed stud book thing, if you want to tweakthe warmblood stuff, go ahead, keep it a summary that directs to the wikilinks, and remember that open stud books exist elsewhere (the foundation article is intended to be really generic, covering Quarter Horses, etc...probably the dog people are even going to wind up weighing in at some point, I bet...)

"Mislead people by citing sources that are known to be wrong" Huh??? Not sure what you mean there...I would feel free to challenge the accuracy of a source, but I would hesitate to attribute motive-- I for one do not put in sources I "know are wrong," I certainly think they are correct at the time I put them in-- though if they are wrong, that's what the rest of us are for -- to point out other info or viewpoints. Anyway, just clarify your concerns and we shall see what can be done! Montanabw^(talk) 03:23, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pics

Dropped possibles on the talk page. They are culls from previous shoots. Ealdgyth - Talk 02:45, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

And I got you the show halter shot you were wanting too! I'm so good.... Ealdgyth - Talk 22:14, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Heading out

Be back in a bit... so it'll be a bit before I get back to looking at that glitch. Not sure I can fix it, but I'll give it a shot. Ealdgyth - Talk 22:48, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thoroughbred FAC

I THINK I caught everything I was supposed to. Have pity on me, the trainer is sick as a dog today so I'm like actually having to be like a manager type person. UGH. And we're getting nasty gusty winds here, gusts up to 40mph, which is just making things so much fun. Horses are freaky, people are freaky... so my brain cells aren't all here. I got the statistics in, stud fees, auction averages, etc. Anything else you can think of? PLEASE go through and smooth my prose. It's very dry and dull at the moment. But hey, I sourced it! AND you need to get page numbers in a few spots in the references... (taps her foot). Ealdgyth - Talk 21:14, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Must do. ASAP.

We need the page numbers for the ref for Marguerite Henry's book in the Thoroughbred article. Please??? Ealdgyth - Talk 00:52, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Got them in, will also add the Wentworth ref. Sorry I was pokey, my bad... Montanabw^(talk) 03:33, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WHOOO!

Here's a pretty new toy for your user page:

Ealdgyth - Talk 01:38, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Whooo! Whooo! Whooo! (making train noises!). Montanabw^(talk) 03:33, 8 June 2008 (UTC)