Talk:Minangkabau
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"Islam now is so deeply rooted in their culture that being un-Islamic is equal to being un-Minang to them." is not an objective statement. Please provide examples in the article of how this is so, and how it applies today.
- It does seem a particularly odd statement given the matriachal nature of Minangkabau society - ie, some might say that that is Un-islamic. Yes, i too question the value of it. --Merbabu 08:16, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- So what with it(matriarchal)? Look at this example: they have their own kind traditional 'headscarf', so almost all my minang friend (of course the girl) is using headscarf/hijaab(not the traditional style) at daily life. I think their un-islamic nature(gambling & alcohol) was drove out from their culture, except their matriarchal nature(if you consider being matriarchal is un-islamic).Aditthegrat 10:31, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
- from http://kcm.co.kr/bethany_eng/p_code/1541.html : "The Minangkabau are 99% Shafiite Muslims. They are among Indonesia's most devoted Muslims, with many holding important positions in leadership. There are currently eight christian missions agencies targeting the Minangkabau; however, little progress has been made among them. The New Testament, the Jesus film, and Christian radio and television broadcasts are available in their language. Yet, there are only about 1,000 known believers. The Islamic religion is very difficult to penetrate.". I think that being a Christian missionary in West Sumatra could be a very dangerous job given that some Minang people have become violent in the past to rid the area of non-Islamic practices (see Padri War). The post-Padri war view of Minang culture/adat is "adat basandi syara', syara' basandi Kitabullah" - tradition founded upon Islamic law, Islamic law founded upon the Qur'an. (Caniago 10:56, 4 October 2006 (UTC))
- Minangkabau people are very devoted muslims but they will not become violent if someone wants to talk to them about christianity or any other faith. Minangkabau are not violent people. You cannot compare the time of the Padri wars (1821 - 1837) with present time, that's ridiculous. Besides, what makes you say Minangkabau adat is "post-Padri"? Could you give me a citation? Your citation of the adat (adat basandi syarak, syarak basandi Kitabullah) is nothing but an explanation where Minangkabau adat comes from. It is tradition founded on an islamic basis, which in turn comes from the book of God (Kitabullah), i.e. the Qur'an (maybe you confused syarak with sharia?). Matrilineal/matriarchal practices still exist (albeit in a less obvious way), there's nothing un-islamic about them.
- To Aditthegrat: I don't know what kind of traditional headscarf you mean. Could you elaborate on that? In my personal experience, Minang girls either wear headscarfs (like the ones everyone else in Indonesia wears) or they don't. The traditional ones are only worn during festivities like weddings and such.
- About the phrase at the top: Islam is so much part of Minangkabau culture that it probably is unthinkable to most Minangkabau that anyone who calls him/herself Minang would not be a muslim. MartijnL 11:05, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- I agree that for the most part Minang people are non-violent, as are most Indonesians, however there are some Minang with more extreme Wahhabist influenced views, just as there are in other parts of Indonesia. The Padri war is just the first instance of violence, there are plenty of other cases in Minang history of violence whether for religious reasons or not. My Minangkabau sources tell me that some Christian missions have been driven out of West Sumatra using violence in the last 20 years. There are even some references available for this on the web, for example "the pastor of the Padang congregation of Bethany Church, West Sumatra, paid with his life when his church was burned down." [1]. Even some local governments in West Sumatra, notably Padang, have been introducing laws over the last few years which display an intolerance toward people of non-Islamic religions, if only for political purposes. I did not say that the Minang adat did not exist pre-Padri war, indeed it existed even before Islam arrived in Sumatra. My understanding is that until the Padri war Minang adat was not based upon Islam (see [2]). (Caniago 12:26, 12 October 2006 (UTC))
- from http://kcm.co.kr/bethany_eng/p_code/1541.html : "The Minangkabau are 99% Shafiite Muslims. They are among Indonesia's most devoted Muslims, with many holding important positions in leadership. There are currently eight christian missions agencies targeting the Minangkabau; however, little progress has been made among them. The New Testament, the Jesus film, and Christian radio and television broadcasts are available in their language. Yet, there are only about 1,000 known believers. The Islamic religion is very difficult to penetrate.". I think that being a Christian missionary in West Sumatra could be a very dangerous job given that some Minang people have become violent in the past to rid the area of non-Islamic practices (see Padri War). The post-Padri war view of Minang culture/adat is "adat basandi syara', syara' basandi Kitabullah" - tradition founded upon Islamic law, Islamic law founded upon the Qur'an. (Caniago 10:56, 4 October 2006 (UTC))
- So what with it(matriarchal)? Look at this example: they have their own kind traditional 'headscarf', so almost all my minang friend (of course the girl) is using headscarf/hijaab(not the traditional style) at daily life. I think their un-islamic nature(gambling & alcohol) was drove out from their culture, except their matriarchal nature(if you consider being matriarchal is un-islamic).Aditthegrat 10:31, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] "related groups" info removed from infobox
For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all {{Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 20:29, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Possible religious bias
From the section "Adat and religion" (emphasis mine):
In this belief system, people were said to have two souls, a real soul and a soul which can disappear called the semangat.
This seems like it might be the view of the writer, not the view of the believers. Would adherents to these beliefs have called one of the souls a "real" soul, in contrast to the other one? I can't easily check the source.
I hope it's not being stated that there are such things as souls, as that is very much a disputed claim.
— Misha
216.254.12.114 (talk) 04:36, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
