Talk:Merkinė

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	Merkinė is within the scope of WikiProject Lithuania, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Lithuania on Wikipedia. To participate simply edit the article or see our to-do list. On the project page we have some tools to help you out. Don't hesitate to ask questions!
Stub	This article has been rated as Stub-Class on the quality scale.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.
Comments	Please leave a short summary to explain the ratings and to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article.

[edit] Images

I think that these should both be on the right. Having one on the left and one on the right, make the article look "weird" IMHO Athletes Foot 13:48, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Whatever, it's a matter or personal preference, I believe. --Lysy^talk 14:01, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] More Polish History Lessons?

Lysy, and the reason here? If you'd be so kind. Dr. Dan 19:28, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

How about queen Bona Sforza hill castle ? Or Władysław IV Vasa stayed and died here ? --Lysy^talk 21:18, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

C'mon Lysy, these are the reasons to put the Polish toponym in the lead of this town? At least try to be shamelessly honest about it, and tell us the reason is the same reason as why a dog can groom itself. Answer: Because it can! Bona Sforza has been dead 499 years, her association with the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth has no more to do with Poland, than it has to do with Lithuania (her husband and son were rulers of both entities that comprised it). It's like telling us we should put the Polish toponym (Mediolan) in the lead for Milan, since Bona came from Milano. As for Wladziu IV Vasa, maybe we should put the Polish toponym Paryż for Paris, since Henry III of France, died there (actually a suburb of Parigi). Sure Lysy, sure! "Bona Sforza Hill Castle" would be a really good "historical" reason to add the Polish toponym in the lead of this article. Sorry, out it goes! As I've told you, and told you, Not in the Lead. Any relevant or important information can and should go into the article. but do try to stay away from trivia, if you possibly can! Dr. Dan 23:05, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Certainly in the lead. --Lysy^talk 23:46, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, what about Paryż and Mediolan? Going to put them in their respective leads too po Polsku? Please don't give me the he made a deletion without explanation baloney in the future. And please do not portray yourself as the "neutral" Polish editor with the expertise that the Lithuanians lack, concerning Lithuania, it's history and it's geography. And regarding my lack of creditials as a historian, all I can say to your courteous comment, is I hope you know what part of the dog can groom itself, because it can. Dr. Dan 00:14, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Because neither Paryż nor Mediolan were the historic names of the respective cities, while Merecz was. It would be better if you started actually adding some content to wikipedia, instead of trolling around and provoking flame/edit wars. --Lysy^talk 00:29, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Believe me, I may have done my share of trolling when it comes right down to it, but when it come to the Neutral, Un-biased, Polish "Expert" on Lithuanian matters, troll is an understatement, concerning you. As stated repeatedly by myself and others, what you call "historic" names, are merely Polish toponyms of Lithuanian geographical entities. Let my people go, you'll feel better. As to your observation regarding, adding some content to wikipedia, let me say that beside working twelve hours days with psychiatric patients (a large percentage being of your own ethnicity), I would like to find time to add more content. Unfortunately I got sucked into a vortex of correcting mendacity that I spend absolutely too much time trying to eliminate. There was a time not too long ago, that any false and biased information from your colleagues could be added and go unchallenged in WP. Fortunately this trend has been reversed and will continue to go the way of Elżbieta Rakuszanka on English WP.. Dr. Dan 00:55, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Polish toponyms: yes, Polish language was used in Lithuania. Both by Poles and Lithuanians. You know this and I know this, why pretend ? BTW. what makes you think that I'm a neutral, un-biased, Polish expert on Lithuanian matters ? --Lysy^talk 01:13, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

According to its enemies, Poland ceased to exist from 1795 to 1918. That is not my interpretation of Poland, nor the Polish nation, nor the Polish people. You know this and I know this, why pretend? Somehow lost in this equation was the Polish POV that Lithuania somehow did cease to exist, somewhere down "some dirt road". You know this and I know this, why pretend? Dr. Dan 01:21, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

When did Lithuania cease to exist ? Did I miss something ? The fact the people used Polish language does not mean they were Poles nor that Lithuania ceased to exist. People do speak French in Belgium or Switzerland but it did not make these countries disappear. --Lysy^talk 01:44, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Like Poland, Lithuania never ceased to exist, inspite of the fact that so many Lithuanians spoke fluent German, Polish, Russian, and their native tongue as well. But ultra-Nationalists seized on this in their census taking, and "staged" plebiscites, and other aggressions to attempt to justify their "political machinations", by claiming that these Lithuanians were German or Polish. There is no question that some, in their materialistic interests went along with this game (knew quite a few in Wroclaw, who pod czterymi oczami, sheepishly acknowledged this fact). And that was long after 1918. I especially love the non-existant Cabal's, distinction between Polish Jews when it suits their purposes, versus Lithuanian Jews ( or other non-Polish Jews), who might mess up their little game here on WP. You know, Polish Jews, when it's convenient, Jews (like Lithuanian Jews in Vilnius), when its not. Enough of the sermon, what's necessary is to stop the provocations of putting the Polish toponyms of Lithuanian geographical entities in the Leads, of articles and stubs of villages and hamlets of 300 people that are dramatically distant from the Polish border and have nothing to do with Poland (ever, let alone since 1795, if ever). And to stop this nonsense that a "hill" named after a Queen from Italy, who ruled as a consort 500 years ago in the PLC would be a sufficient "historical" reason to add a Polish toponym in WP in the LEAD of an article. Once this is agreed upon, we can then begin to add content and work in some kind of concerted way to make WP better. Dr. Dan 02:48, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry Dr.Dan, but the policy is exactly the opposite, we should put alternative and foreign names in the lead. Personally, I'm not so convinced to using them in the body of the article, as I find it potentially confusing. And your claiming that Lithuanian Poles are not Poles at all, is simply insulting to them. Don't you think that people can decide about their nationality ? I'm sure you're not a racist, Dr.Dan, and that you would respect that, once you give it a minute of thought. --Lysy^talk 08:48, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Your'e right about the racism. Lithuanian Pole is "oxymoronic". I prefer the reality of calling such citizens, Poles who live in Lithuania or conversely, Lithuanians who live in Poland. Perhaps someday you'll re-read your remarks (and those of your friends) regarding Lithuania, and understand why Miedzymorze didn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding after 1918. It might also explain why "diplomatic relations" with all of Poland's bordering neighbors, were strained at some point or another between the World Wars. In fact, since these issues were usually over "territorial" questions, and "minority" questions, the racism issue, seemed to emminate out of Warsaw rather than the other way around. Finally Poland's largest minority, it's Jewish community, didn't have much good to say in the way of their treatment in the Second Republic. And I'm not talking exclusively about Shamir's opinion. Dr. Dan 14:43, 2 January 2007

I'm afraid I can only agree with you on treatment of the national minorities in the Second Republic. Hardly an excuse but increased level of nationalism is typical for young independencies and sadly Poland was no exception here. --Lysy^talk 15:33, 2 January 2007 (UTC)