Talk:List of One Piece characters

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Contents 1 One Piece factions 2 Change to project page 3 Stop Everything! 4 The order in which the crew joined 5 Villians 6 Merger

[edit] One Piece factions

I suggest that several articles, such as The Three Great Powers and several pirate article get merged together into One Piece factions. The article will discuss the major powers of the One Piece world: the powerful pirate crews (Whitebeard, Straw Hats), the Three Great Powers, and other organizations (World Government, Cipher Pol, Baroque Works) that influence One Piece. This should only include the major powers, so minor powers like the cat-themed crew from early in the story don't get in and flood the page. The Skypeia characters, Franky Family, and Galley-La Company, because they don't influence the entire world of One Piece, don't get there either, and should be listed somewhere else. The ones with too much info for the page, like the Straw Hats, keep their own article and only get linked. All in all, the set up should be something like:

• Pirates
  • Blackbeard Pirates(linked to Blackbeard in Shichibukai)
  • Red Haired Pirate Crew(linked to Shanks in Yonkou)
  • Straw Hat Pirates (linked to article)
  • Whitebeard Pirates
    • Members (Whitebeard(in Yonkou) and Ace)
• The Three Great Powers
  • Yonkou
    • Members
  • Shichibukai
    • Members
  • Marine Headquarters
• Other factions
  • World Government
  • Cipher Pol
  • Baroque Works

For those that don't have a members subpage, then it means only one member is notable enough to be mentioned. Blackbeard Pirates, Blackbeard; Red Haired, Shanks; World Government, Gorosei. Cipher Pol and Baroque Works don't need to have characters mentioned, just the organizations. As for Thriller Bark, simply mention that it is the ship and crew under Moria.

So, what do you think? It does seem drastic, very much, but in the end, it is agreeable to all those with basic knowledge of how Wikipedia works. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares (talk) 00:56, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Red Haired and Whitebeard pirates should probably go under the Yonkou header, otherwise there isn't much point in even having it. I don't really see a problem with listing the characters in Cipher Pol or the pirate crews, as long as we keep the descriptions short, which I've already taken care of for the most part. I'm all for consolidating the information, as it makes it much easier to find, but cutting out all mentions of the characters or their roles in the story pretty much makes the article worthless. So, I say yes to merge, with a few tweaks as far as formatting. I doubt you'll get much more support than mine. Ark (talk) 01:41, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

And you would be correct at least with me: shortening up characters is one thing, but not even mentioning them is complete idiocy. I have "basic" knowledge of how Wikipedia works, this is just a stupid idea that is nothing but deletionism with the serial numbers filed off, just like TTN's list. I am fine, and indeed agree with merging of pages that are simply redundant is a decent idea that deserves consideration; but, getting rid of dozens of characters for no reason whatsoever, is a moronic idea. (Justyn (talk) 03:04, 11 February 2008 (UTC))

You're right for no reason whatsoever, Justyn. However, do any of those characters you want to keep really have any notability besides being a member of that crew/organization? Besides Shanks, no one in his crew has any notability whatsoever. Blackbeard's crew is in the same position. Just because they have a name and take up space doesn't mean you have to mention them (Naruto, Bleach (manga), Marchen Awakens Romance, and YuYu Hakusho, for example, don't mention every character, only the major ones). The thing is, One Piece probably has five hundred characters, but out of those five hundred, how many really play a notable role in the series besides being there? Only about 50 of them do, which is only 10% of all the characters. Why should space be wasted on a character whose only role is being there, while major characters lose room for them to be spoken about? Artist Formerly Known As Whocares (talk) 22:26, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Note: Theres about 200 is you count only the human characters... That doesn't include animals, fishmen, giants and merfolk, which add anoth 20-60. That has not importance whats so ever I know... I just felt like posting that. I have no idea why. O.o' Angel Emfrbl (talk) 22:37, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia has no upwards limit on information; therefor, we don't need to get rid of minor characters to save space for more important characters. Technically, there is absolutely no intrinsic need to mention anything on Wikipedia. And I'm not saying that we need to mention characters that get next to no mention, lines, or ones that don't even appear on screen (Dr. Blackbeard for example, should probably only be mentioned on the Wikia); but minor characters deserve as much to be mentioned on Wikipedia as George W. Bush, Adolf Hitler, Stonehenge, Tokyo, blankets, Grass: in that NOTHING has an intrinsic need to be on Wikipedia. All I'm saying is that skipping over almost every character just so that most of them can be merged into one page along with loads of information, is just as bad as what TTN proposed. I will not oppose the merging of redundant pages, as long as you split the characters from the redundant information, but just leave the character sub-pages alone, there is no need to merge them (There is also no need to keep them, I'd just rather keep than delete). (Justyn (talk) 02:48, 13 February 2008 (UTC))

Under fictional notability, however, only major characters, creatures, items, locations, etc. in stories are considered noteworthy. For example, is there any reason to mention Dr. Blackbeard? We aren't even mentioning Ace's hunt for Blackbeard miniseries under his section. Why should characters most people in the world has never even heard of on an encyclopedia of noteworthy information from an out-of-universe perspective? This not only goes for Dr. Blackbeard, but many other characters that do little besides be there (except Crocodile and Robin, most of Baroque Works isn't mentionworthy. All that comes to mind to keep anymore is Mr.'s 1, 2, 3). Artist Formerly Known As Whocares (talk) 21:11, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

A) That guideline is proposed, it's not even an actual guideline yet. I think that we should wait until it concensus is gathered and the page stablises before we attempt to adhear to it; and if it starts causing more problems than is solves, we have a very simple way to deal with that.

B) Yeah, the Wikipedia articles should have a point of minority where the character is not even mentioned beyond passing in another character's page: Dr. Blackbeard should only be mentioned in passing on Ace's page, and probably on the Wikia too; heck, most of the Cover story-only character should probably only be mentioned in the one character's page. Most of the characters on the Minor characters and Filler characters pages are fine as is (unsourcable crufty stuff can be trimmed a little, but that's not the point here). Basically: Minor character are called that for a reason, most of the chacters are rather minor, but deserve more than a passing mention. Some charaters are literally just there (Dr Blackbeard, Garp's attendant, that guy that got executed instead of Kuro), they deserve a passing mention in another chacter's page, if that. Some characters do not even deserve mentioning, there are very few of them. (Justyn (talk) 01:45, 22 February 2008 (UTC))

A) Adding content and improving Wikipedia are too different things. Do you REALLY think that adding in-universe fan cruft about character most people don't know or care about really does improve Wikipedia? I could just as easily spam up an FA-article as place in-universe stuff here, but would the spam count as improving the article just because it adds more?

B) No, they shouldn't even get mentioned. Using Naruto as an example, which, I should mention, has GA-ARTICLES!!!!!, not every character should be mentioned because they have a name. I'm sure most of the ones that were removed there, if they were in this series, would be kept by this series' task force because they have a name and do something. This not only goes for the ones that do absolutely nothing (Dr. Blackbeard), but many other characters the task force finds "notable" (most of Baroque Works, the Skypeian saga characters, all of the Cipher Pol except Lucci and Spandam, all the pirate crew members except the captains, etc.) aren't even worth mentioning. Characters should only be worth mentioning if there is absolutely no way to not mention them, which means they are also of major importance to other characters in the series (Mr. 1 to Zoro, for example). Artist Formerly Known As Whocares (talk) 17:59, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Basically, the whole motivation behind this is that these characters have no notability, so they don't even deserve a mention in an article? The rest of Cipher Pol, Skypeian Arc characters, etc. should at least have some sort of list at the end of a related article. For example, Pirate crew members don't need anything other than a name mention at the end of a Captain's article, and all the members of Cipher Pol can just be merged and mentioned in a Cipher Pol article, which is what the page currently is like. Furthermore, you seemed to have changed your mind, Artist. "I'm not going to make a merge-or-keep comment on Zoro, but I will say that the creation of any character, whether they be main or minor, deserves mentioning. This includes how Zoro came to be, fromm Buggy's crew to the Straw Hat's swordsman."

It's true that there are a lot of characters in the current selection of One Piece articles that don't do much or really aren't important, but they should at least be mentioned ifthey play an important part in a story arc. Further, rather than simply base arguments on Notability, why not create new guidelines for fictional characters and series? Otherwise, why keep entries on novels like Deltora Quest and the Hungry City Chronicles? They lack notability references as well, yet no one talks about them being relegated to being just an entry on the List of fantasy novels.

Perhaps what we need are a new set of guidelines for fictional characters, universes, stories, etc. The current guidelines are all well and good for real-world articles; the Face of Round Top doesn't have any notability and rightly doesn't deserve an article, whereas George Lucas does; but should Wikipedia simply confine itself to the real-world? If we do that, then it would be little different from Encarta or World Book. It might have more total articles, but large sections of human knowledge and achievement concerning the arts would simply be dropped, because they lack "notability." Wikipedia would basically become the domain of elitists that can say "Oh, an author interview isn't notable enough. It needs X number of reviews, X number of products for Y markets, and a doctoral thesis on it." Hyperbole, yes, but that is essentially the argument of people like TTN. I don't think TTN is being elitist on purpose; he's simply citing and following the guidelines, but those guidelines don't work for articles on fictional topics. We need a new set of guidelines.Redlar (talk) 05:46, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

When fictional things are concerned interviews, magazines and ISBN are your friends as sources and references. I keep saying; these things count, its goes for everything on wikipedia. Watch a documentry on a dinosaur? Thats counts as a source! Read an article on Steam trains, thats a source. Got a website, thats a source (only in the right context though). Angel Emfrbl (talk) 12:39, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Change to project page

Plaese change this page to a project page fror One Piece. Very few people are talking about the format of the page itself and more on the format of the other pages. The merge to this page tags are also startin to become annoying especially on the good pages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.177.164.187 (talk) 01:17, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Been there, tried to set that up... Failed. Talk:One Piece#Project proposal, I was trying to get a point across then about there were urgent mergers that had to happen and never did. Perhaps since the mergers are over and done with now (finaly) since then, someone would care to pick up where I left things? Every note I made is there to read if anyone is intereasted. Angel Emfrbl (talk) 00:13, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't try and start a project. There doesn't seem to be enough editors for that. I'm a mildly interested editor, and I keep track by having this page on my watchlist. If there are other pages that I should watch, I would be happy to add them. As far as projects go, you really need a lot of editors to justify them. I helped create a Canadian TV Shows wikiproject once, and although I thought there would be enough editors to justify it, there wasn't. We created a bunch of project pages, but all it did was take time away from editing Canadian TV show articles. We were succesful in hammering out a few issues, but we could have done it at the general TV wikiproject without all the paperwork. Sad but true. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 05:38, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

If you read the later parts, tat is why the project never took off. Only about 3 people were intereasted. Angel Emfrbl (talk) 07:44, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Stop Everything!

If I have read correctly, under a temporary decision, all article related to television series are no longer to be merged, redirected, or deleted until furhter notice. Additionally, no former articles are to be unmerged, unredirected, or undeleted as well. Just thought it should be mentioned. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares (talk) 18:52, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Doesn't that apply only to the people involved with the arbitration case? Ark (talk) 21:17, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, better safe than sorry. (Justyn (talk) 06:01, 24 February 2008 (UTC))

O.K. I re-read it and all the injunction says is "blah blah blah television episodes/characters". One Piece is a manga, so the injunction doesn't apply to our articles. Not that I would really care if it did, but this way I'm covered. Ark (talk) 13:48, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Um, not clear then, but... can we at least get assurance that Straw Hat Crew doesn't get merged, vandalized, or otherwise tampered with? Bulmabriefs144 (talk) 19:45, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

One Piece is also an anime, which fits under television. So merging is a no for now. If Naruto has to go through these rules, I see no reason why other anime and manga articles shouldn't. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares (talk) 21:24, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Okay, it's closed now, so we should be able to go about things normally. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares (talk) 19:15, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The order in which the crew joined

I think this needs to be cleared up, since there seems to be some confusion as to the order. I don't know who is responsible for the changes, but the order was wrong so I fixed them. Zoro is first, chapter 6 title. Nami is second, chapter 94 title. Usopp is third, chapter 439 title. Sanji is fourth, chapter 68 title. After that it's pretty obvious what order they come in. So just keep a heads up, because the order will no doubt get screwed up again. Ark (talk) 14:28, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Although what you say sounds as easy like saying a stone is hard, but Nami never actually joined the crew after Buggy. She stated more as a coorperation then actually being their navigator. She even left Baratie without any notice, kicked Zoro's aniki's from the ship and stated several times that she wanted them to leave. The betrayel of Arlong, feelings for her village and the warspirit of the inhabitans (she knew they would die, but couldn't stop them) made her realize that she has to trust Luffy. With her flashback's and eventually the defeat of Arlong gave her the step to move onwards and free of the shackle's of Arlong. Just my thoughts, I don't mind either way. Ge4ce (talk) 11:49, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

The crew actaully has an order, which Oda signals via a number chapter. Its why Usopp didn't get his the number "3" on top of him until he joined alongside Franky at the end of Water 7. For those that are not aware of it, the nos are:

1. Zoro
2. Nami
3. Usopp
4. Sanji
5. Chopper (yet to recieve his no.5 chapter I note)
6. Robin (likewise)
7. Franky
8. Brook

Chopper and Robin may never get their number chapters, but theres the crew no. wise. Incidently, Luffy is not counted as he created the crew - he didn't join it. Angel Emfrbl (talk) 19:06, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Villians

I was wondering if Aokiji and Smoker should be on the Villians list, i mean they just don't give off a villian feel like the other ones on the list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.180.252.83 (talk) 06:57, 27 March 2008 (UTC) Regardless of how you feel about the character, they are antagonist, against the main protagonist. Both have fought the main character,s and the later wants to capture them. Wither or not later in the series they switch to the protagonist side, or aid them, we can change their pages then. But at the moment they are the enemies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Discobird05 (talk • contribs) 16:03, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merger

There was discussion a few months ago to merge all of the One Piece character articles into the list, with proper trimming, of course. The consensus seemed to be to go for it, but then it stalled out with the injunction. After the injunction was over, though, no one got started...so, anyone want to jump in now to get it going? -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 21:53, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm unable to actually merge and redirect the articles, but I can certainly do some basic trimming and reformatting once they're here. TTN (talk) 22:01, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

From what I could tell, it was discussed and then the discussion just died because it was basically just a never ending circle between two people repeating the same things... No one else knew what was going on, no one else could have a say.

That is why it hasn't been done. Right now, no one is opposing it. I guess we're on "do what you want quickly before anyone notices!" routine. And if you guys want to do it, seriously don't leave it long, because I don't want to see another "Wikipedia rules Vs Fandom" fight again. I really hate those type of discussions, TTN knows why. I get a lot of guilt when there is a lot of fans trying to save a page and sympathy kills the wikipedian.

If there isn't any work done, tomorrow I'll help (midnight where I live), its too late for me. Angel Emfrbl (talk) 23:02, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

The consensus was to not make a single ugly list and cram every notable One Piece character onto it. It "stalled out" after the injunction because TTN was the only person pushing to delete all of the articles and condense everything, and he's not allowed to do it. At this point, I would rather see fewer articles here, if only for the fact that it would make it much easier to revert vandalism(of which there is plenty). I'm willing to contribute, but I want to know what we're working towards before I begin. Ark (talk) 20:12, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

So basically you just want to remove peoples work because you're too lazy to do more yourself? Yeah, no. Just leave it the hell alone. The pages don't need to be merged, they're fine as they are. Scratch J (talk) 15:03, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

The merger is necessary to comply with WP:FICT as most, if not all, of the One Piece characters fail all requirements for existing. Option to is sending every last one up for deletion and have nothing at all. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 14:08, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

A single character list would be appropriate, or perhaps a couple. You said there was no consensus to make one, but didn't clarify what you felt the consensus was or offer any alternatives. You also didn't mention if there were any specific characters you felt notability could be established for? TTN isn't the only one who was supporting a merge, but yes, he can't do it now. As for what we're working towards, a list that at least has a chance at being a featured character list, such as List of Naruto characters (notice, this is a comparable size series with one list, and only a few main character articles) and List of Fruits Basket characters. Both of those are being prepped for FLC and are in the peer review phase now. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 14:16, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Oppose. FICT has no consensus per its talk page as well. There is no "complying" with a failed guideline. Kyaa the Catlord (talk) 14:19, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

It is not a "failed guideline" and the lack of consensus on the wording does not nullify it. However, for the picky folks who like to throw that around as it if is some sort of salvation, the individual character articles all fail WP:N, WP:V, WP:PLOT, and WP:NOTGUIDE. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 14:23, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, cause sucking the life out of Wikipedia is apparently fashionable. Does it make you happy that you piss off the majority of editors you encounter Colle? Kyaa the Catlord (talk) 14:28, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Does it make me happy? I quite frankly don't care. Never have. Like me or not, your choice and nothing that bothers me one way or another. I'm not here to socialize. Long as people stay civil and follow the rules and guidelines, they are free to hate me if it makes it easier to blame me for problems rather than blame the problems themselves. As a note, though, while I may piss off some fans and the like who like to think of Wikipedia as their personal playground, I have plenty of others who have offered encouraging words and support. Whether you like it or not, the work I (and many others) are doing, is in-line withe guidelines and policies. If people don't like following the guidelines and policies, there are plenty of other wikis and wikias where their contributions would be welcome additions. I believe One Piece has a wikia and that it was mentioned it was sorely in need of such fan oriented content. That isn't Wikipedia's purpose. Oh, and the individual character articles also fail the Anime and manga MoS, as well as the TV MoS.-- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 14:39, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

From what I've seen of you, Colle, is that you aren't here to work collegiately, you're here to say "My way or the highway" and bash people with WP:WEAPONOFCHOICE. You make Wikipedia a battleground by simply demanding changes be made your way and when people disagree with you, you leap to attack with so called policies and guidelines born of instruction creep. Not every article must be "featured". We're not paper. We should not be dusty and lifeless like paper encyclopedias. But hey, every minute you spend here is one less you can spend ruining the few articles that WP:ANIME does have on the FA and GA lists. How many have you removed Colle? Kyaa the Catlord (talk) 14:48, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I work collectively just fine, when people aren't trying to use the "its not paper" excuse to bloat an ENCYCLOPEDIA with a bunch of fancruft. You can call it ruining if you want, your opinion and really not one that matters. How many FAs have I removed from anime? None that I can think of because we don't really have any (which really should tell you something, but, you of course don't care about featured articles anyway). For ones I've helped get in shape for coming FA runs? At least 3-4 off the top of my head. GAs? 4 or 5, because people didn't want to make the effort to fix them. Of those, at least one has since been overhauled, the issues I noted were addressed, and it is back at GA. Of course, got another half dozen working on GA runs there. And plenty of FLs done and in the wings as well. Ah, but "not everything has to be featured" so what do you care? Anyway, getting off topic and this sort of discussion has nothing to do with the article so lets end it here.-- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 14:54, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

You work collectively with your minimist pals to remove anything you opine to be "fancruft" from the encyclopedia. You claim you wish to make this featured, but in reality, you remove featured and good status from articles regularly. You canvass, such as your position taking post on WP:ANIME, for like minded faces to come to articles you label as "fancruft" and reduce the coverage of fiction from the encyclopedia. Do you wish to BUILD wikipedia or do you wish to build another dusty, unused, overly vanilla wannabe brittanica? Our coverage should be BROAD, we're not paper, do should not unnecessarily limit our coverage of topics for simply beaurocratic reasons. Kyaa the Catlord (talk) 15:28, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Ah, so the anime and manga project are my "minimalist pals" and its canvassing to follow the dispute resolution process and ask the overseeing project to come to the discussion? Interesting. Andyes, I not only wish to build Wikipedia, but I am. Sorry you think Wikipedia means fanguide instead of encyclopedia. Broad doesn't mean excessive. You want to argue the "beaurocratic" [sic] reasons, go ahead, but this isn't the talk page for it. There are lots of policies and guidelines talk pages you can try to argue at, but its been shown time and again that the vast majority, not the minority usually seen on these pages, agree that excessive fictional detail isn't desired nor part of the Wikipedia goal. 15:33, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Not really an One Piece person, but since I'm in the progress of dealing with character articles in another large series, my line is all characters that have no practical possibility of getting extra-universal notability in the near future should be merged.--Samuel di Curtisi di Salvadori 14:56, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

O.K., first off the character articles pass PLOT and NOTAGUIDE. I generally ignore VERIFIABILITY and NOTABILITY because I don't agree with most of the guidelines there and because I can. With that said, I'm all for merging the character articles, because it makes things much cleaner and easier to maintain. The number of pointless One Piece articles is amazing, and really just silly. Do the Flying Fish Riders really need an article of their own? I think not. At the most, I think the Straw Hats might get their own article, because of the amount of information we can produce, and probably Luffy as well, depending on how much more dirt I can dig up. Everyone else will be fine in the single list, with some minor format changes. I'll be clowning around with the list until we reach consensus. People are going to complain, but the OPWiki is there for a reason. Use it. Ark (talk) 03:04, 10 June 2008 (UTC)