Talk:Krishnaism
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[edit] Krishnaism
Wikidas, what do you think about duplicating sections of the Radha Krishna page for the Krishnaism page, such as the various religious traditions etc. I think that would help contextualize it. Any thoughts? Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 15:27, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
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- There should be some structure as to how it branches - RK will be a branch of Krishnaism, and the main article will be RK. However the topic of Krishnaism is a larger one but may have only a synopsis of the article on RK and Krishna, to get it boiled down of course you can cut and paste. But if you keep it as it is the original will change, but this will not and thus you will have two versions of the same thing, so taking as a starting point - yes but more as a boiled down version, almost talking about main traditions of RK worship, rather then separating each. Wikidās ॐ 17:24, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
- I agree, that is a good plan. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 19:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
- There should be some structure as to how it branches - RK will be a branch of Krishnaism, and the main article will be RK. However the topic of Krishnaism is a larger one but may have only a synopsis of the article on RK and Krishna, to get it boiled down of course you can cut and paste. But if you keep it as it is the original will change, but this will not and thus you will have two versions of the same thing, so taking as a starting point - yes but more as a boiled down version, almost talking about main traditions of RK worship, rather then separating each. Wikidās ॐ 17:24, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] scope
this page seems to be duplicating Gaudiya Vaishnavism and/or Bhakti movement in scope. Clear delineation of scope is necessary, we cannot have duplicated articles merely on grounds of variant terminology. dab (𒁳) 10:10, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
- Clearly there are many references to Krishnaism without references to Bhakti movements and Gaudiya Vaishnavism. Please see this bibliography that relates to this specific page and defines the scope, there are number of encyclopedic articles on it - for example HARDY, Friedhelm E.: Krsnaism. In: The Encyclopedia of Religion. Gaudiya Vaishnavism is not equal to Krishnaism just as the worship of Radha Krishna is not confined to Gaudiya Vaishnavism. Maybe discuss it at the project talk page WT:Krishna, that is where the proposal came from.Wikidās-ॐ 22:06, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
I am not quite convinced. "Northern Krishnaism" is equivalent to Gaudiya Vaishnavism. There appears to be some sort of "Southern Krishnaism", but this is very obscure, and the article makes no attempt to delineate it. Clearly, "Krishnaism" is a valid term, but you need to make clear why this should be a standalone article rather than a redirect to Krishna, or a disambiguation page.
- Find sources: Krishnaism — news, books, scholar
dab (𒁳) 13:47, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
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- reviewing the few dozen google books/scholar hits for the term, I find that it is universally used as synonymous with Gaudiya Vaishnavism following Caitanya. There is also the term "Hare Krishnaism" which refers to ISKCON in particular. I can see no justification for this article as separate per WP:CFORK. It appears that Krishnaism in particular is a term coined by 19th century Indology for Gaudiya Vaishnavism in view of comparing it with Christianity. dab (𒁳) 13:59, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
Dab, your search may however contain some nonacademic views and unreliable sources mixup, something you adamantly fight against in other places. You ether have to cite your references and make a case or accept the academic WP:RELIABLE references provided in the article. What you you are presenting is just one of the definitions. Standard dictionary definition is "worship of Krishna the 8th avatar of Vishnu." This is divided on to all historic references to early worship and different competing traditions, where Radha Krishna is worshiped, that are forming the scope of the WP:KRISHNA. WP:CFORK and WP:FRINGE are possibly your favorites and however one needs to carefully study the subject before labeling anything that does not fit in a set view. Lets try it again
Looking for a specialist in the field quote: An Introduction to Hinduism - Page 117 by Gavin D. Flood 1996
- Indeed, the term 'Krsnaism' has been used to describe the cults of Krsna, reserving 'Vaisnavism' for cults focusing on Visnu in which Krsna is merely an avatar.
There are number of cults of Krishna, including south indian ones. Yes in the west the main one is ISKCON, however for this article ISKCON or Gaudiya are just part of the bigger picture. As in Hinduism: Past and Present by Axel Michaels, Barbara Harshav: Krishnaism is referred as four different sects of devotionalism: Page 23
Again in A Survey of Hinduism, Page 245 Klaus K. Klostermaier
points out to it being an early traditions of a variety;
These are not just sectarian sources, these are academic authorities in the field. Lets not jump to conclusions and confine the term to as it is understood in late mediaeval Bengal.
Moreover if you take Hopkins, he will again have a completely different perspective, all points of view need to be represented in this article, thus this article is not WP:CFORK Maybe its just a matter of spelling it the way academia spells it... Check the search below:
Find sources: Krsnaism — news, books, scholar
--Wikidās-ॐ 17:53, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] What is this article about?
At the moment the article distinguishes itself from Vaishnavism but makes no attempt to clarify the difference between "Krishnaism" and "Gaudiya Vaishnavism" (if there is one). If it is referring to the general worship of Krishna across all traditions of Hinduism then it should state this more clearly. The recent creation of many Krishna-related pages have huge overlaps with each other so unless they all lose their generality, merging them would be a better option. GizzaDiscuss © 00:37, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
- Thank you for taking part in this discussion. I think we all have to agree that the article has to clarify the difference between Krishnaism and Gaudiya Vaishnavism, clearly, just as with the Swaminarayana branch and just as Vallabhacharyas line, it all should be addressed and should list the traditions more clearly. This page should provide the reference and summary to most of Krishna related pages that you are mentioning. Some of them are quite big and merging them will be quite impossible. Wikidās-ॐ 12:11, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
- I agree with Wikidas. There are many traditions that need to be included such as Swaminarayan, Vallabhacharya's sampradaya, Manipur Vaishnavas, etc. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 04:23, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
