User talk:JohnClarknew

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JohnClarknew (talk) 15:24, 18 February 2008 (UTC)== AfD Nomination: John Clark (actor/director) ==

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! We welcome and appreciate your contributions, but all Wikipedia articles must meet our criteria for inclusion (see What Wikipedia is not and Deletion policy). Since it does not seem to me that John Clark (actor/director) meets these criteria, I have started a discussion about whether this article should be kept or deleted.

Your opinion on whether this article meets the inclusion criteria is welcome. Please contribute to the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John Clark (actor/director) . Don't forget to add four tildes (<nowiki>TeckWizBot 15:42, 3 April 2007 (UTC)</nowiki>) at the end of each of your comments to sign them.

Discussions such as these usually last five days. In the meantime, you are free to edit the content of the article. Please do not remove the "articles for deletion" template (the box at the top). When the discussion has concluded, an administrator will consider all comments and decide whether or not to delete the article.

Please also see the Wikipedia article on autobiograpies --Jamoche 07:42, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 Richard Drury 2 Actors Equity 3 Players 4 Will Hay 5 Booth family 6 Silver Line (shipping company) 7 Vandalism? 8 NOT? 9 Tittell Brune 10 John Clark bio article 11 DYK 12 Jellybeans 13 License tagging for Image:Sybil Thorndike as Joan of Arc.jpg 14 Re: Tittell Brune AGAIN 15 Smiley Award 16 Stainless Stephen 17 Commercial vessel template 18 QE 19 John Wilkes Booth and citations 20 Personal observation about Where's Wiki Heading? 21 Record of content from Talk page on Dziekański Tasering incident at Vancouver airport, unedited 22 Can I use WP software for a book I want to write? 23 Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Sybil Thorndike as Joan of Arc.jpg 24 Zachary Turner 25 Stage or screen 26 Silver Line (shipping company) 27 John Clark 28 Grand Central Airport

[edit] Richard Drury

Hi John, To follow up the discussion of Treasure Island, I emailed Richard Drury (an English professor in Italy who maintains a Robert Louis Stevenson website on derivative works http://dinamico.unibg.it/rls/stage.htm ) - he would like to verify and write to you about the 1947 production but I don't know how to contact you - do you have an email address? Or you can email Richard at , thanks -- Stbalbach 21:19, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

That's fine, I'm at . Be glad to hear from him. JohnClarknew 05:03, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok thanks I let him know (I removed the emails from this page to protect from spammers). You can also add your email in the "my preferences" page (far top-right of this page) so that others can email you via the "E-mail this user" (far middle-left of this page). It's a safe way of making your email available without exposing it to the world. -- Stbalbach 13:59, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Actors Equity

This user still an active member. Was at a meeting in 1960 at The Astor Hotel where I gave a speech urging the union to drop this political statement from its constitution. Was shouted down. I don't know how Equity was any better than the other performer unions, AFTRA, SAG, etc. As a member of each, I am unaware that any members were banished for their political beliefs, even for being a communist. If I can be proved wrong, please correct me. I thought the problems related to blacklisting by potential employers. Anyway, I hate distortion. Either drop this claim from the page because its too controversial, or tell all of it. See my blog where I talk about the experience under "nostalgia" stories! JohnClarknew 23:20, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Players

I'm having a problem clearing this up (not smart - yet!). I'm trying to link to The Players (the actors' club in New York). But this won't get there. Also, if you go to the Players (club) page, which I re-wrote, there are 2 identical entries, one's a redirect, and one should be deleted. I don't want to screw something up, so can someone else do it? Also, there are far too many "club" entries, it needs to be completely reorganized JohnClarknew 08:04, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

The link is not obvious, it should really be "The Players", not "Players' Club". I have added the Spitzer press release which I just discovered. I insisted I sit on the board, but when she was away, I got voted off. It was clear that the club was in danger of collapsing, membership dwindling, and attempts to help with the finances and Lynn's income-raising ideas were not appreciated. Lynn was no figurehead, which is what they really wanted. I think the controversy has now blown over, they bit the bullet, but it has never come into the open before. If editors get flack here and prefer, I would put this on my blog. JohnClarknew 07:34, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Will Hay

Seems that the excellent Australian website which contained the only known sample of 1944's "The Will Hay Programme" broadcast from London, and old BBC interviews with Will Hay, has disappeared as of 11 October, 2006. Can any of our friends from down under shed light on this, and maybe help to get it back up? I won't delete the external link in case this is temporary. If the page holder has a problem with this, I hope he will contact me. In general, I would have thought that the exposure would be welcomed by him. JohnClarknew 19:51, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

It's reappeared, thank goodness, and I found the website is England based, in fact my home town, Watford, so no issues here. I e-mailed him to confirm.JohnClarknew 08:22, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Booth family

I've added the "{{prod}}" template to the article Booth family, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but I don't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and I've explained why in the deletion notice (see also Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not and Wikipedia:Notability). Please either work to improve the article if the topic is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia, or, if you disagree, discuss the issues raised at Talk:Booth family. If you remove the {{dated prod}} template, the article will not be deleted, but note that it may still be sent to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. IslaySolomon 07:41, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Wow, that was quick, you appeared about 3 minutes after I finished. I note that you think John Wilkes Booth is "noteworthy", while Edwin Booth, or Junius Brutus Booth and several others of the family are not noteworthy, and that this is just a piece of jangly "genealogy". The reason I have written it is that I find there is nowhere else that an overview of this remarkable family can be found, some of the individual members yes, but not as they relate to each other. This is actually the beginning of America's theatre history, and because of the notoriety brought on to the profession due to Lincoln's assassination, to this day there are reactions such as you have demonstrated. But it's time to move on, this is history, it's nearly a century and a half later, and I think people will appreciate reading about the Booths, perhaps for the first time, in some kind of context. They were under enormous pressure from several directions, causing events to take place the way they did. I will be interested in hearing from others on this subject, preferably those with some legitimate theatre knowledge. I'm sure that some corrections may need to be made, but deletion? I don't think so. JohnClarknew 08:04, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Since you seem to be disputing my proposed deletion of this article, I have nominated it for an articles for deletion debate. You can read and add to the discussion here. -- IslaySolomon | talk 14:46, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Silver Line (shipping company)

The photograph which I took has been deleted, and I don't know why, there is no note, and I released all rights. How can it be deleted without a note as to why?

• LATER: It's back. JohnClarknew 19:21, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism?

Edits I did on 'your page' WHERE NOT vandalism. All where completely valid...and did not warrant a REVERT, CLAIMING VANDALISM. Very bad taste... especially considering the nature of your page (which is 100% VANITY). You've got information in here that is non-encyclopedic in nature, and the article was in great need of being "run through the NPOV comb". This was not only my opinion, but the opinion of other editors as well (refer back to the previous AFD discussion regarding your page). Alphageekpa 16:09, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

If you don't want people to edit the article, consider moving it to your User page instead. Alphageekpa 16:15, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NOT?

Thank you for going to a talk page (yours, mine, discussion, doesn't matter.) I have this to say to you and forgive its length:

• 1. Please learn to spell correctly. To type "were" as "where" once is a typo, twice is carelessness or laziness or ignorance, none of which is appropriate.
• 2. Check the Discussion page for its history. I think your objections were already dealt with there.
• 3. It is already on my user page. Didn't you check it?
• 4. Do you have an agenda that you are not revealing? I mean, are you a lawyer (I have been accused of being anti-lawyers), or perhaps a Jehovah's Witness? Or an out-of-work actor? Or against Bloggers? Or doing this for somebody else?
• 5. You say my page is "100% vanity". It is not even 1% vanity. It is entirely fact-based, truthful, and therefore not subject to the laws of libel. I believe it is helpful to readers, and it is important to me that it remains "as is".
• 6. Is a self-written page automatically "Vanity" in your eyes? How about a notable person page written up by a fan, or a spouse, or a relative, or a friend, or a press agent, or an attorney or other paid help? Does that make it OK, and non-"Vanity" in your eyes?
• 7. If you feel it necessary to go after "Vanity" pages, aka unabashed undisguised self promotion of self and/or works, there are thousands to check out, especially those whose awards and titles are discussed at length to the exclusion of helpful encyclopedic knowledge of their work, ideas, personal life, marriages, mistresses, lovers, or outside interests, but because I do believe in right to privacy and I don't like confrontation and some are friends of mine, I resist the urge. I would rather others did it. But you probably won't be allowed to do it.
• 8. Regarding the NPOV comb, I think it is inevitable that POV creeps into pages in Wikipedia to a certain extent. For example, I was in the Merchant Navy during the Korean War, and sailed in hostile waters with Silver Line, and you will notice at the page United States Merchant Marine that I wrote a section called "Wartime Controversy". And you will notice that a certain sympathy with the plight of merchant mariners creeps in (and please give them a thought too on tomorrow's Veterans Day). Also, I wrote up a piece on Pro se's, and one might detect a certain sympathy for pro se's. Even the inclusion of an internal or external link or reference can be a form of non-NPOV. Yes, most of my contributions have a "been there done that" quality to them. When you get to my age (74), it happens. The genius of Wikipedia is that it is not your ordinary Encyclopedia, who needs another one of those? It is, instead, filling a need for people like you and me to have an opportunity to express ourselves in ways that are helpful to the worldwide community through our personal knowledge born of actual experience, so the definitions will sometimes spill out a bit beyond the frame, which is purposely left a little soft. Raw advocacy of course should certainly be kept out.
• 9. If I have anything to thank you for, it is that you have given me this opportunity to explain myself. I believe in transparency on an internet site like Wikipedia, and I am only sorry that so many users wish to hide their identities. I wish you well. JohnClarknew 00:07, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tittell Brune

Nope, I've no major qualms about the article. I just happened to come across it on Special:Newpages and had a go at tightening up the prose a bit before nominating it for featuring in Did You Know (it should appear on the Main Page later in the week.) I'm aware that my writing can be a bit dry (a nasty habit I've picked up from reading too many chemistry paper abstracts), so feel free to revert any changes I made that you feel were detrimental to the article in any way. I've no knowledge of the subject at all, so my edits should just be dotting the i's and crossing the t's. GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 17:42, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, did Ms Brune become a fully-cloistered nun within the Fransiscan order, or merely a religious sister? GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 17:47, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Good question. I think cloistered, and she and they were obviously into privacy, and so probably never reported her death publicly. But I think I will take a trip there, it's near where I live, and find out. BTW, could you do me a favour? If you click on Roy Redgrave, I've got real factual concerns about the contributor who wrote up the original (go to history). I know some of the facts, but the facts I didn't could be fanciful or maybe not. Any way to check out the I.D. which could be anybody, and is a number that is shared? JohnClarknew 18:25, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm afraid it's a shared IP, belonging to Derby city council and a number of schools thereabouts. Anyone in that area could potentially have logged on using it, so it'd be impossible to narrow it down to a specific person. Per WP:BIO, you can either just delete unsourced information outright, or add {{fact}} tags to the dubious statements and see if anyone can dig up some corroboration. GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 04:36, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, I put in a ^{[verification needed]} next to a statement, it appeared, then mysteriously disappeared next day. No record of it in history. JohnClarknew 08:52, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm trying to find out (a) whether Tittell Brune ever returned to Australia, to perform or otherwise, after she left in 1909. I can find no records. The photo I include in the article had the date "1920" written with it by the collection archiver, not by the photographer, so it's unreliable. (b) Also the date of her husband's death? Would appreciate knowing, so that it can be included. JohnClarknew 20:45, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] John Clark bio article

I made a few minor edits to your bio, mostly to add dates that I saw in your IMDB bio. Can you list any more "references" at the bottom of the page or even web links with information about your career/life? Even links to reviews would be good. That would make it easier for editors to add content and citations. Best regards, -- Ssilvers 01:39, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your interest. You should look at my pro se blog for my bio (not for my credits). Unfortunately, my past history, including scrap books from my professional childhood, were all stolen from me quite recently. And it's too long ago and perhaps too unimportant in history for even Google to list it. I'm thinking I would like to list my credits from my days of repertory, but am a bit afraid to do that as self entered material is too easiy deleted on the charge of "vanity". You might want to email me directly, or at my blog. JohnClarknew 20:31, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

On November 23, 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Tittell Brune, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

GeeJo kindly nominated this page for DYK. Feel free to self-nominate, 80%+ of our entries are self-nom.Blnguyen (bananabucket) 01:47, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

On December 7, 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Pauline Cushman, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Hello John. Thankyou for creating this quirky article. It earnt you top spot and the pictured slot on the update. Keep it up! Blnguyen (bananabucket) 00:00, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jellybeans

Here are some Jelly beans for you. I love jelly beans as they have sugar in them and most people love sugar. But on the other hand just receiving somthing from somone else just makes you happy and also just giving this to you makes me happy. I hope to spread the jelly beans all over Wikipedia, so here, you can have this lot. Please enjoy them. (I like the lime ones.)

Editors need a bit of a sugar high too.

An apple a day keeps -The Doctor- away. Or does it! ^{(talk)(contribs)} 02:20, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] License tagging for Image:Sybil Thorndike as Joan of Arc.jpg

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[edit] Re: Tittell Brune AGAIN

Slow down, I've absolutely no idea what you're talking about. If you're referring to the see also section removal, I'm not sure you understand what such a section is for. They're intended to allow readers wanting to learn more about the topic to do so by clicking on the links. Do you really believe that a link to Charisma or celebrity really adds much to a person's knowledge of Ms Brune? As for the external links, I never touched any such things. Looking at the history you only added one earlier today, and it's still there. If you're experiencing things going missing with no note in the article history, it generally means you didnt submit them. Are you sure you clicked "Save page" after previewing your additions?

If you don't believe me when I say I've not made any deletions other than the see also section, ask any other administrator to check the article history. They're able to see deleted history versions and will confirm that there've been no such removals from the article history of Tittell Brune. GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 06:47, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

OK. (1) You state "really adds much". The word much is a loaded term. If you wish to deal in qualia, then you should also accept the theory of Information entropy. You are you and I am me, and there are millions our there with their own versions. And I say that see also links to actors and celebrities are nuanced contributions to the fuller understanding of the subject. Please familiarize yourself with applied polycontexturality as it pertains to second-order cybernetics. I am going to restore the links.

(2) I have checked the history, and it appears that the entry under references The New Age, September 10, 1910, page 442 is exactly the same as the external link Cambridge Journals, and they somehow got to be duplicated. Now, if you had noticed that, I'd have called you really smart. But I forgive you. JohnClarknew 09:19, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Check out the following: Because scholarly encyclopedias tend to have longer, essay-length articles (not the quick entry style of an Encyclopedia Britannica), you must use the index volume to find all the places your topic is mentioned.

You will find that description of an Encyclopedia in What is a Scholarly Encyclopedia? (for Art, or any Subject). I believe that Wikipedia goes beyond Encyclopedia Brittanica because its articles are written in some cases by scholars and therefore gets treatment somewhat along the lines of a scholarly encyclopedia. If you don't agree with this, I think the question should be put before the authors of the Wikipedia concept. If I am wrong, I will stand corrected. JohnClarknew 17:05, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

{{WP:RFC/BIO}}

I have used a see also link which goes from the particular to the general i.e. a bio article on Tittell Brune with a link to Actor. The dispute is that I'm not allowed to do this. I maintain that Wikipedia has some of the qualities of a scholarly encyclopedia, see What is a Scholarly Encyclopedia? (for Art, or any Subject). Please give guidance. 17:28, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Smiley Award

Feel free to place this award on your user page, as a token of appreciation for your contributions. If you're willing to help spread the good cheer to others, please see the project page for the Random Smiley Award at: User:Pedia-I/SmileyAward

User:Pedia-I/SmileyAward1 Kyo cat^{¿Qué tal?•meow!} 02:28, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stainless Stephen

John, my pleasure. The nice thing about the 'fact' tag is, if you leave it there, someone keen normally comes along and fills it in for you. I couldn't find an obvious source for your quote, except buried in that blog (fair enough, but it's best to be as obvious as possible). I wouldn't say music hall is a speciality of mine, more that it found me; I began by attempting to fill in some pieces on the halls, particularly existing ones around Hackney (in London); then found some neglected people who didn't have articles; and of course for that era, many of the memories are fading fast. It was fascinating to read about Stainless, and to hear that you performed with him. I'm sure there are many more you can drag out of retirement. It was also a pleasure reading your bio. All the best. Kbthompson 10:08, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Commercial vessel template

Hello. As you may know, there are a variety of infobox templates used for ocean liners; at least one of which is ill-suited to passenger vessels. As a consequence of a discussion I had with User:Ebyabe at User_talk:Ebyabe#RMS_Queen_Mary, Ebyabe has generously agreed to create a template for passenger vessels. It appears at Template:Infobox Commercial Ship. Its creator needs assistance with the fields for the template. For example, it will need a tonnage field, but would not need a displacement field. Should beam be moulded breadth, or extreme beam? Should length be pp, or oa? Given your interest in this area, would you be willing to particpate in the project? If so, go to Template talk:Infobox Commercial Ship and weigh in. It may be that different templates are needed for passenger ships (gt), freighters (dwt, net), containerships (TEU) and that one size will not fit all. Thanks for your interest. Kablammo 21:16, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, and good luck. Kablammo 18:41, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] QE

Thanks for the note-- Unfortunately I have not yet mastered adding images. I agree that one is needed. Kablammo 19:30, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] John Wilkes Booth and citations

Takes a while to get the hang of citations and footnoting. I use the Citation Templates and put them inside ref tags. For ref tags, read through WP:FOOT. Be sure there is a reference section at the bottom with the tag "<references/>" so they show up. Fill in as much information in the template as possible. Sometimes it is tricky to get the template to do what you want - for instance, I originally filled in the wikilink to Warren Commission, but then the external link to section 7 of the report did not work. The revision was to remove the wikilink, which allowed the original url: --- link to function. That show preview button is the Key!

Anyway, looking over your talk page and user page, sounds like you have a lot to contribute, with some character to it too! Welcome aboard (assuming I predate you on the wiki, not a safe assumption). Ratagonia 07:22, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Personal observation about Where's Wiki Heading?

Nowhere else to write this, really, but I was just checking out Ricky Gervais and Extras and Larry David, and they go on and on and on with their links and become mini-books in themselves, no doubt giving away for free (by publicists?) the content of never-to-be written books on their subjects. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, they make for riveting reading (to some of us in the showbusiness arena anyway) but seem to be far from the expressed aims of the site's founders. Probably will doom the hard-copy publishing business forever.

Either admins go through many such sites with busy scissors, or the hell with it. Wiki has caught on big time and is changing as the wind is blowing. Next we'll be seeing endless video and sound downloads.

Where will it all end? I see trouble ahead. JohnClarknew 05:44, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Record of content from Talk page on Dziekański Tasering incident at Vancouver airport, unedited

[I am keeping the record of this discussion which took place on the talk page, perhaps inappropriately there, because I believe the tasering incident was not just about the police action, but was a wake-up call, a cautionary tale effecting all of the people involved. I well remember the July 4, 2002 incident at LAX when an American/Egyptian limo driver Hesham Mohamed Hadayet went on a shooting rampage at the El Al ticket counter, while the LA Times reported that his grand-daughter was in another part of the airport. He was taken down by a security guard. As I make clear below, nowadays, trained airport security police can themselves be lethal weapons when doing their jobs.]

Conclusions from Perspective and Hindsight

Viewed again with more facts, a little more time to think about it, and a chance to turn back the clock, it is clear that while there was a lot of avoidable blame to go around, the meaningful blames lie first with the mother, then with the airport authorities, and only last with the law enforcers. Those are the layers of blame. The victim should be exonerated completely, given he had been well over a day and a night left alone and waiting, waiting, perhaps devoid of food, water, and finally his ability to think straight (and who wouldn't do crazy behavior in our individual way with strangers' cameras following your every move, given his experience? But add the extra handicap of his linguistic isolation).

1. Did the mother, knowing her only child so well, his sense of trust and lack of any experience in the modern world of air travel, and his complete lack of the English language, arm him with a letter written in English to carry on his person which he could show to authorities? And a list of notes for him written in Polish on what to do in case of emergency? And, with her experience and knowledge of life in Canada, why did she leave the airport at all and accept the information that he was not at the airport?

2. Given failures on the part of the mother, then the next layer comes in, and those are the airport authorities. They had absolutely nothing in place to deal with this type of emergency, surely not rare in such a cosmopolitan city and port of entry as Vancouver. Do they not have a travelers welcoming desk, where the mother could have gone to give the information about her missing son, who could have been effectively tracked down? Their huge and final blunder was to call in the cops. Cops are a weapon these days, especially these days of terrorists which created rules and instructions. Procedures are in place to deal with perceived threats, in the form of a. disarm, b. secure (takedown and handcuff), and c. ask questions later. Which leads to

3. It should always be assumed that cops are trained law enforcers, and are not mentally equipped to think outside the box. In rare cases, very rare, there might be a cop among them capable of taking the time to think clearly, assume the best and not the worst, and with the courage to break the rules and check out whether there might be a simple explanation before using brute force. But don't, in fact never, bet on it. That the police were called was an admission and guidance on the part of the Vancouver airport authorities that they had done all they could to resolve the problem at all levels of problem solving and dispute resolution.

As an afterthought, the bystanders should not be absolved of guilt here. Why were some people taking pictures and videos starting several minutes before the entry of the police? Did anyone speak to him? Did they see a simple problem, and get involved on a human level? Certainly many were gawking at the spectacle, and today one hopes they are ashamed with themselves; only they know and will keep the memory. Yes, there is much to think about. As the priest said at the son's funeral, it came down to a matter of the lack of simple, human COMMUNICATION. A lesson for all of us. A future civil case in a court of law will thoroughly air the verifiable truth and meanwhile we already know the consequences. JohnClarknew 18:14, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Irrespective of guidelines provided at WP:TALK disallowing personal essays on articles’ talk pages, I also strongly disagree with parts of the above assessment by User: JohnClarknew, especially the implication of guilt on the part of Dziekański’s mother. The list of passengers who arrived at the airport from Poland was available to YVR personnel with a click of a button. She asked for assistance, but was misinformed and sent away with nothing. Meanwhile, her son spent hours clearing Customs and Immigration unable to communicate in English and yet he was also sent away unassisted. It takes a seasoned traveler to circumvent the apathy of airport personnel, but please spare us your sense of know-how. --Poeticbent talk 22:17, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Arriving plane's passenger manifests are not available at YVR or any other airport, and it is not possible to determine who got off a plane with a "click of a button." Ever tried calling an airline for such information, even while it's in the air? Neither is a list of people who cleared customs made available by a Federal Agency such as Customs and Immigration. There are issues of policy, security and privacy to contend with. The mother was asking impossible questions. She should have demanded a search, and not left the airport. Please read everything so far connected to this case. I did. It takes several hours of time. JohnClarknew 02:42, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Ms Dziekański was sent home with false information about her son. Her only fault was to believe an unintended lie. Perhaps the air carrier would have been able to help her, but was she directed there at all? Anyhow, this talk page is not a place for your criticism of her actions and I'd prefer to have your narrative removed, or at least stripped of bias. --Poeticbent talk 07:41, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Bias is not intended, Poeticbent, and emotions are high for the very reason that everyone knows how easily it could have been them put in the same position, not just the Polish. Perhaps the article will help serve to alert people, and good will finally come out of it. JohnClarknew 21:00, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Above comment was immediately DELETED

The following appears in the history of this page: This was done by Ckatz very quickly after I posted my comments (see the history of this page)

Reverted good faith edits by JohnClarknew; Rv. - respect your opinions, but unfortunately they have to be removed as this page is for discussion of the article, not the issue. ----Ckatz

I am appalled that Ckatz should instantly DELETE my above entry, which I certainly wrote for the purpose of improving the article for future contributions since new facts have been revealed. He, unfortunately for him, reveals his NPOV problem by writing this on his user page:

Canadian issues . . . the Vancouver project . . . I'm also proofreading, revising and updating pages as I find them, and doing the occasional bit of work on vandalism patrol.

I too am Canadian. I have put back my comments, which I believe conforms to Wiki guidelines, and will appeal for admin intervention if this sort of thing goes on. Discussion pages are meant to be just that, fairly sacrosanct, absent deliberate distortion or gibberish. Comments by others are welcome here of course, but this page should stay as is. I have asked for it to be put on the article watch list. JohnClarknew 20:53, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

As someone who has been known to ramble off-topic on talk pages, I generally agree that talk page comments should only be deleted if they are malicious or offensive to the point of being libelous. However, for some context, Ckatz also removed this, which is cause for offense much more than your comments. Taken together however, both have absolutely nothing to do with the article, and violate WP:TALK, which says (in bold font): "Article talk pages should not be used by editors as platforms for their personal views." It also says: "Irrelevant discussions are subject to removal." What you wrote is your analysis of the incident and doesn't refer to article at all. As to whether it will inform future editing of the article, you don't indicate how that might be, or even mention what the new information is that you referred to. In any case, I think you're reading more ill-intent into Ckatz's actions than they deserve. He or she has been around for a long time and hasn't shown any sign of a POV agenda in the past year or so that I've been doing this. bobanny (talk) 21:18, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I checked out your comment that was deleted, and don't you think your opinion was offered using an unnecessary expletive and there was a racist element in the last sentence? Why don't you resubmit it, and remove those bits?

I completely disagree that my comments have nothing to do with the article. Would people be happier if I stated that the police are being unfairly targeted (would you criticize a shark for attacking a herring?) and Mr. Dziekański unfairly targeted for reacting to his situation in an understandable way, and the mother coming out squeaky clean when in fact she could have better prepared her son so that none of this would have happened? And if I stated that the article might well be cleaned up and edited bearing these comments in mind? I don't think these points for future editing were obscure. The police seem at the moment to be taking the biggest hit, almost to the point of protecting the reputations of everyone else, and I tried to level the field. And new information is coming out regularly, with magazine and newspaper interviews here and abroad, and more will spill out at the future trial. This is still a topical and controversial subject. JohnClarknew 22:39, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Hi Mr. Clark. I think you are a bit confused. Bobanny was pointing out that CKatz had (appropriately) deleted an obnoxious comment. An IP address wrote it, not Bobanny. I am afraid that I too agree that your commentary is not particularly appropriate for the talkpage. Rightly or wrongly, this is not the place to discuss who is responsible, but to talk about what notable, reliably sourced and verifiable information should be included in the article. If the BC premier or other notable person had made such suggestions, then sure, it could be discussed and suggested here. But as it is, it was your analysis and didn't really seem to contribute to the article development. BTW, you can sign your edits with four little tildes ~ , which will sign your posts for you nicely. Or you can use the little signature button in the blue bar above the editing window (which is a lot easier!). --Slp1 (talk) 22:53, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

(resetting indent)John, apologies if I wasn't clear enough when removing your text. As others have pointed out, it is not a question of what you said, but where you said it. The article talk page is for discussions about the article, not the subject of the article. That is to say, you should not be offering your personal assessment of the situation. (If, however, you were describing an article that you had read which supported the same assertions, that would be fair game as it would offer new sources for expanding the article's coverage.) It is an important distinction, and the reason for it is to ensure that article talk pages do not become discussion forums about the topic. If you post your opinions, someone else then comes along and posts their opinions in response, and so on. Eventually (or quite quickly, in the case of a controversial subject) the talk page would be overwhelmed by the larger debate about the issue, making it difficult to discuss the actual article we are supposed to be writing. On a related note, I really wish you hadn't taken such a cheap shot by attempting to portray my actions as a "POV" issue. However, I'll choose to attribute it to your apparent frustration - although it would be better to ask me personally first. My decision to intervene and follow up on established Wikipedia guidelines for talk pages had nothing to do with your opinions, only with your well-intentioned yet erroneous choice to write them here rather than at a more appropriate forum for discussion. I hope that this eases your concerns, and helps you to better understand the situation. --Ckatz^chat_spy 00:07, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I find your explanation baffling. This is not a finished article, so how do you separate an article from its subject when it's still developing, and some rewriting might be in order? The logic escapes me. And where is a "more appropriate forum"? But I am relieved to find that your deletion was not a POV issue. When such sweeping action is taken without discussion, suspicions tend to get aroused. Bobanny, I apologize for attributing the bad stuff to you, your comment was confusing, I now see it referred to an anonymous IP address. Slp1, I always do do 4 tildes. I'll do it now, there. JohnClarknew 01:45, 9 December 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by JohnClarknew (talk • contribs)

Well, if that's not clear, all I can do is suggest that you read through Wikipedia's talk page guidelines, which state:

"Keep on topic: Talk pages are for discussing the article, not for general conversation about the article's subject (much less other subjects). Keep discussions on the topic of how to improve the associated article. Irrelevant discussions are subject to removal."

and

"Stay objective: Talk pages are not a forum for editors to argue their own different points of view about controversial issues. They are a forum to discuss how the different points of view obtained from secondary sources should be included in the article, so that the end result is neutral and objective (which may mean including conflicting viewpoints). The best way to present a case is to find properly referenced material (for an alternative forum for personal opinions, see the Wikibate proposal)."

Hopefully, you'll find what you need in there. --Ckatz^chat_spy 07:42, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

My dear Ckatz, you withheld in your above remarks the following which also appears in the Talkpage Guidelines:

" ... However, it is not set in stone and should be treated with common sense and the occasional exception. ... When in doubt, discuss first on the talk page."

I think that applies here. I think that the article should be tagged as a developing story. And a better and fuller introduction could serve as a reminder that there is much still to be told in this developing story, it's not just about the "tazer incident". The role of the mother seems to be dealt with only in interviews she has given on television. Of course there is great sympathy for her. I am waiting to find some written record of how she prepped her son for his arrival, if at all, to be cited. Then the role of the police in what they may have thought was an escalating terrorist situation will probably not be revealed until time of trial. A lot of people are not talking, and may not until/unless subpoena time. BTW, fear not an overlong discussion page. Have you noticed the number and length of archived talkpages elsewhere? Wiki servers must be enormous. JohnClarknew (talk • contribs)

If some Freudian analysis blaming Dziekański's mother gets published in a non-fringe source, we can discuss it here. Until then, it's not our job to develop one. I suggest we all stop this discussion. If you want to expand the article John, it would give some focus and relevance to subsequent talk page discussions. bobanny (talk) 23:05, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. --Ckatz^chat_spy 23:15, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Freudian???--JohnClarknew (talk) 22:28, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Can I use WP software for a book I want to write?

Not frequently asked but yes its is all open source. The only barriers are you own ability to run the right kind of server etc but "Wikia" may do this for you if the project meets some criteria. --BozMo talk 07:11, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

FROM THE HELP DESK: I'd like to use Wikipedia software and tools to organize material for a book I like the way it works. The idea of writing drafts, editing, making notes, creating and using "See also" and "External links" (never using the WP site) would be very helpful in the early research stage. Of course, the final draft would be copied to my word processing software for a last edit and to print it out. If so, can I use it for free? (I'd be happy to make a contribution.) If it's copyrighted, I'd be prepared to pay a license fee. Can this be done, and if so, where and how? --JohnClarknew (talk) 07:02, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

The software used by Wikipedia is called MediaWiki. It's free software and it is available to download. See the MediaWiki home page for information and download links. Raven4x4x (talk) 07:53, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

You might want to have a look to Comparison of wiki farms, if you wish to create your own wiki. I personally tried http://www.editthis.info/ (using mediawiki) and http://wikispaces.com/ (not using mediawiki) and found them quite nice. Note that Wikipedia (the website) is not a webhost and can't therefore be used to host your drafts. -- lucasbfr talk 11:26, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Also see: b:Wiki Science/How to start a wiki mw:Manual:Wiki on a stick - how to set up your own (free) personal wiki with MediaWiki. Creating your own wiki to work on a one-off book project may be a bit of overkill, particularly if you lack the skills of a system administrator; you might also look for existing public wikis you might use. Privacy would be a concern with many public wikis, so carefully check the type of access control a public wiki would give you. You might also look at the MoinMoin wiki software. It's somewhat different than the MediaWiki software which powers Wikipedia. The Linux Documentation Project uses MoinMoin to enable their volunteer writers to edit DocBook documents (namely, the Linux manuals). DocBook is a markup language for generating books. If you used MoinMoin plus DocBook, you could do all your editing in a wiki, and get straight to printable output. That "fixes" one of the limitations of MediaWiki, that MediaWiki was never intended for writing books. --Teratornis (talk) 21:20, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, guys, for all your help and suggestions --JohnClarknew (talk) 18:13, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Sybil Thorndike as Joan of Arc.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Sybil Thorndike as Joan of Arc.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Wikipedia:Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot (talk) 08:49, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I have replaced it with a link to the museum which owns the print. JohnClarknew (talk) 15:24, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Zachary Turner

I came across this story at Slamdance and became fascinated with it, because the lives of the concerned people seem to parallel my own, which thank God didn't include murder and suicide (so far I might add.) So I wrote it up as best I could under Zachary Turner, surprised that it hadn't already been covered.JohnClarknew (talk) 15:24, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Stage or screen

Your recent edits to the Actors' Equity Association article have emphasized that the union deals with stage and not screen. I don't think there was a lack of clarity in that regard, since the last sentence of the first paragraph delineates that the union is for stage actors and managers. It also tends to describe what the union is not, which isn't necessary. Later references to actors within the text can be assumed to deal with the stage since the union deals with stage personnel. You could certainly fix the text box to refer to stage actors instead of simply actors, an oversight on someone's part and maybe your initial reason for concern. I also would recommend against suggesting that the union has jurisdiction over things. Purview might be a better choice. --Pat (talk) 03:55, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi Pat, I added stage in the text box, thanks for your suggestion. The 3 performer unions are often at loggerheads, with sometimes jurisdictional overlaps, so I took pains to emphasize the fact that their purview is the theatre only. Many of us actors have to pay dues to all three, unlike the UK which only has one union which covers everything, including directors. JohnClarknew (talk) 00:21, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

I started my Wikipedia hobby by editing stage articles for some reason. I have no particular expertise. I took on the challenge of adding sources to the Julie Andrews article for a while. I found she had received the SAG Life Achievement Award and there was no page for the award, so that got me looking at other actors and other awards. I eventually wandered in other directions, but I continue to have a soft spot for the stage topic within Wiki because of those early days. I wish you well with your editing. --Pat (talk) 21:29, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Silver Line (shipping company)

The present image size is good. Your edit makes the image too large. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 23:14, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

• Pleased to be of assistance, I saw your 'discussion' with User:Otolemur crassicaudatus and agreed with you completely! Paste (talk) 21:12, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] John Clark

Hello. Long time no see. Check out Signor Brocolini, real name John Clark.  :) -- Ssilvers (talk) 18:20, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Grand Central Airport

Perhaps it's time to split Grand Central Airport into an article of its own. It's beginning to overwhelm the Glendale article, and it certainly deserves an article by itself. Would you be interested in doing that? ·:· Will Beback ·:· 20:30, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Sure, I'll have a go. I'm waiting delivery of a book for further source material. JohnClarknew (talk) 07:34, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Nice work. I wrote the original material on the airport in the Glendale article. I learned about it as I researched it. I'm glad to see the topic get the attention it deserves. I have a question about the title of the article that is best addressed at Talk:Grand Central Terminal (Glendale). ·:· Will Beback ·:· 07:53, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. You are right about changing the name. I don't know whether to delete it and copy to the new name, or some other way. It is already on Google and needs a redirect from Terminal. Could you do this? JohnClarknew (talk) 14:23, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Decided to learn how to do it myself without screwing up, and did it the some other way, including the double redirects. I think it's fine now. JohnClarknew (talk) 17:58, 19 May 2008 (UTC)