Talk:International Hockey League (2007–)

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Contents 1 Table of champions 2 Detroit Falcons 3 Rockford Icehogs 4 Fair use rationale for Image:Uhlnew.jpg 5 Alleged "National Hockey League" experience. 6 (2007-) 7 Merger betweem IHL (1945-2007) and IHL (2007-) 8 New Record 9 Low level or Mid level minor league 9.1 Third opinion

[edit] Table of champions

I am making tables for the Champions of particular leagues and I have a question. Is it ok to put a championship table for the Rockford IceHogs that includes the championships that the Thunder Bay Senators and the Thunder Bay Thunder Cats won. It shows under defunct teams that all three of these teams are the same team just that they moved around or renamed their team? Thank you. John R G 18:12, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

It's not generally the case for minor league teams, no. The Peoria Rivermen page doesn't display the Springfield Indians Calder Cups, for one. RGTraynor 21:07, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Detroit Falcons

The Detroit Falcons became the Port Huron Border Cats in 1996

[edit] Rockford Icehogs

The Rockford Icehogs are not actually moving to the AHL, rather, the Rockford MetroCentre will purchase the rights to the name and logo, and transfer them to the previously defunct Cincinnati AHL team, which the MetroCentre is purchasing. How should this be written on the front page? Bigsnake 19 23:49, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Probably just as gone defunct.  RGTraynor  13:37, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

The article Rockford to join AHL in 2007-08, gives more details that might be helpful.--Ando por Fe 23:29, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Uhlnew.jpg

Image:Uhlnew.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:17, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Alleged "National Hockey League" experience.

Of the 199 players who suited up for UHL Eastern Division teams last season, exactly ten of those had played in so much as a single NHL game, and only three had played in more than ten NHL games. (No doubt the percentages hold true in the Western Division as well, but there are only so many hockeydb.com entries my eyes will take) Five percent does not constitute "Many of the current IHL players have ... National Hockey League ... experience" under any circumstances whatsoever. I strongly suggest that any other speculative assertions come with verified sources to avoid their swift removal.  RGTraynor  20:54, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] (2007-)

Instead of "(2007-)" maybe we should put something like "(current)". To me, it sounds better, looks better, and makes more sense. Anyone agree/disagree? Bsroiaadn^Talk 18:04, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

How about just make it "International Hockey League" and have this...

For previous hockey leagues of the same name, see International Hockey League (disambiguation). Salisbury Steak (complaint dept. - contribs) 02:36, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. If anything, the IHL that shouldn't have dates is the 1945-1996 version, which lasted a great deal longer and had a great deal more prominence than the rebranded UHL will likely have.  RGTraynor  12:40, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merger betweem IHL (1945-2007) and IHL (2007-)

Out of curiosity, why was there remove my most recent edit? According to the IHL website, they have not only changed the league name, but now award the old IHL trophies. The link I provided discusses states "The combination of the old and new league will leave open the possibility of naming other awards after people who have made a significant impact in the International Hockey League" and it appears the league it trying to combine the old and new league (hense term merge). If what I wrote was confusing, somewhat inaccurate, poorly strcutreed, etc. that is fine. But I am wondering why there was a flat out removal. Nothing was un-true and a cite was placed on the mereger talks and trophy absorbtion. I am not trying to be nasty (sorry it comes across this way), but I am curious as to why there was a flat out removed merger material that has not only been cited, but produced by the leauge itself? —Preceding unsigned comment added by RonSigPi (talk • contribs) 19:05, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

How can they "merge" with something that no longer exists? They bought a name. That's all. In particular, your hypothesis that "it appears the league is attempting to merge with the IHL" has no place in the article. Write facts, not your thoughts on those facts. ccwaters 19:53, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

I quote from the official website again "The combination of the old and new league..." (FACT)

From "http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/merger" Merger = any combination of two or more business enterprises into a single enterprise. (FACT)

Because the league no longer plays does not mean it no longer exists. If the intellectual property rights are still held by an organizaiton, an organization retains rights in a business structure, etc., then it can merge. I dont know the situation, but language used by the league suggest a merger.

I do not belive I added 'opinion' and stand by my assertion. Language from the league suggests merger (see above). If you changed what I had, then I undertand. However, completely deleting FACT seems questionable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RonSigPi (talk • contribs) 21:10, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Again, "it appears the league is attempting to merge with the IHL" is your own extrapolation of the situation. The rest of your edit seemed to be a continuation of the same thought. Don't be confused by the language of a press release. ccwaters 13:06, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New Record

The Fort Wayne Komets set the all time North American home win streak on March 28, 2008 with 23 against the Kalamazoo Wings. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.245.201.188 (talk) 03:25, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Low level or Mid level minor league

The current introduction of this article states "It was originally formed in 1991 as the Colonial Hockey League, a low-level minor league." We need to review this league's status as mid or low level, or completely rewrite to say that, the IHL is a low level minor pro league. If you look at the history of Template:Professional Hockey you can see many editors feel the league should be higher up. We need some conclusive wording in this article. Flibirigit (talk) 16:08, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't think we should list as Low-Mid-High at all. But if we are going to do so it is most definately a low level league as some of its teams are farm teams for ECHL teams. -Djsasso (talk) 00:35, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Should we reword the introduction to say it "is" a low-level minor league, as opposed to it was founded as a low-level league? Flibirigit (talk) 01:41, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

It would make a great deal more sense to say that it is one than it was "founded" as one, granted; the latter implies intent by the founders we shouldn't impugn. As far as whether it is one or not, yes, it's obvious that the concept ticks off the UHL/IHL fans who want to believe that the league is a major player in the minors, but their opinion doesn't trump the numerous cited reliable sources to the contrary.  RGTraynor  04:49, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

• Based on comments by Djsasso and RGTraynor, I have rearranged the introduction. Flibirigit (talk) 05:01, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Djsasso, what teams in the IHL are "farm teams" for the ECHL? I don't know of a single IHL team which has an afiliation agreement with an ECHL team. Port Huron and Flint have agreements with Grand Rapids of the AHL, but no team has an affiliation with an ECHL team. RGTraynor, where are these sources you are talking about? Source #1 on the main page is a dead link, source #2 says nothing about the IHL being a lower league than the ECHL, only lower than the AHL, source #3 is a dead link, source #4 refers to the UHL as "Low Double A" which implies (in my reading,) that they are still above the SPHL and other single A leagues, source #5 makes no mention of the UHL/IHL being above or below any of the other AA leagues and source #6 says the UHL was under the ECHL in 2000, not now, in 2000.

The IHL has a $13,000 weekly salary cap where the ECHL only has a $11,200/week cap, as there are no "Letter Grades (AA, AAA)" given to leagues officialy and these teams don't play against eachother, I think players salaries are the only way to determine high, mid and low level in minor league hockey. Acronjsmith (talk) 21:29, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

I realize you like the premise no more than the UHL/IHL fans ever have, but ... first off, the point of the sources was not to compare and contrast whether the UHL was "higher" or "lower" than any other league, but to highlight whether it was generally regarded in the hockey world as a "low-level" league, which it is. Whether its quality of play, the salaries it pays its players or any other such consideration actually justifies the appellation isn't at all the point, because we have no authority to set a standard for deciding; Wikipedia is about verifiability. Feel free to remove any dead links, but if a half-dozen in-line citations don't suffice, I'm happy to make it a round dozen.  RGTraynor  22:00, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't feel that I'm being biased toward the IHL, I just feel that what wiki is stating is incorrect. What I was saying is that the sources provided were either horribly outdated for putting a class on this league or said nothing about the league's ranking in any way. The reasoning I am following is listed here on Wikipedia [1].

IHL players do not get promoted to the ECHL or the CHL, if they are getting promoted they go to the AHL.  : [2] If we are going to have a ranking system then it needs to be similar to established ranking systems out there.

[3] - Intotheboards.net lumps the ECHL, CHL and IHL in to Low Minor League teams (AA as it lists the SPHL as "lowest minors") Acronjsmith (talk) 20:51, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Third opinion

Given the lack of official rankings, as there is in baseball, and that there is some disagreement, it may be best to avoid mentioning the level at all. I realize that makes it hard to properly contextualize the level of play, but we might have to resort to using more words rather than trying to encapsulate the intricacies as just "low-mid-high".

Note the ambiguity that the phrasing quoted above ("a low-level minor league") causes: the AHL, for example, is a mid-level hockey league but a high-level (highest, actually) minor league. The current wording leaves out "minor" but I think that might be a good replacement for "low-level". Something like: "The International Hockey League is a minor-league professional ice hockey league...". The details of where it falls relative to the AHL and other minor leagues can be clarified later in the article.

I hope this helps clarify the dispute.

-- Powers ^T 15:28, 13 May 2008 (UTC)