Talk:House music
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
| This article is within the scope of the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
 |
House music was a good article, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. Delisted version: October 23, 2005 |
Whatever you call it...house is disco. It's roots, it's beat, it's distinctive vocal rythms are all disco. Yes, house has spread far beyond its original seminal home in the gay and black clubs of New York to (first) Chicago, then to other parts of the U.S. and eventually Europe. But the heart and soul of disco is still there, no matter how much they drop the synth and amp up the bass and delete the vocals. My concept of house is Larry and Frankie pushing disco to a better place, a better day. Both are New Yorkers. Chicago owes us here in NYC a debt of gratitude that Larry passed on dj'ing at the Warehouse and sent his unemployed best friend instead. Frankie could have turned them down had he not needed the job.
Frankie and Larry continued to influence each other and the direction of house together. Frankie would come here and Levan would go to Chicago often. They were both gay djs who dj'ed at gay clubs. And the fact that the gay community has never received much credit for the ceation of house is incredible. The Paradise Garage and the Warehouse were nothing if not gay clubs. It was the reaction of the queens on the dancefloor that decided what they would play and what worked and what didn't work. One day, when all is said and done, there should be a documentary that starts with the Stonewall riots (yes, disco was playing as the faggots beat the NYPD) and continues on to the shores of Ibiza, London and Italy.
[edit] Australia
Why the hell is this article on house music talking specifically about Australia and Sydney and Melbourne in the first paragraph ?? This seems irrelevent. Maybe a list of countries where house music is popular would make more sense.
[edit] Jomanda
In the external links there is a 'Jomanda'. She is not a DJ. See this link (it points to this link as well) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jomanda This is possible vandalism. (There may be a house musician/DJ with a name like that or a name which looks like that, but i am unaware of that) Thoms E. Boms. may 13, 2006
- Some of the external links, especially WMPH and possible the others that start with an unnecessary hyphen, appear to be spam. A user has been adding them to numerous dance artists's pages. I would suggest removing them, but given that this article receives more monitoring than the other articles I am removing them from, would like to leave this decision to someone more familiar with the article, as it is possible they are helpful and encyclopic and such. : ) --Roombalogin 04:58, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
I can confirm your assumption that this Jomanda-reference was a case of link-spamming. Though Jomanda is a famous person in the Netherlands she has nothing to do with House music at all. There are some other names though that come to my mind who seem to be missing in the article: Brian Eno and Robert Fripp (known from the so called Frippertronics or Discotronics). I am not an expert in the music field but I remember their sound loops very well. This may be linked to minimal music. I leave it to the experts to work this out. Simon de Danser 23:05, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Jomanda released a regional hit record in 1991 produced by Chicago house legend Steve "Silk" Hurley. This record was release in the USA on Big Beat/Atlantic records and was a major club hit. You can garner more info here: http://www.discogs.com/release/58696 71.119.247.184 05:31, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Sexy House
'Sexy House' is substandard and isn't the catagorization that most DJs, music forums, or record stores use. The type of music you're describing is usually classified as Deep House and features everything described in the lame duck 'Sexy House' category. For a better reference, use Ishkur's Guide to Electronic Dance Music where he branches Deep House (nee 'Sexy House') as a subgenre of House and then applies it as a supergenre to Funky House, Disco House, and French House. Wikipedia would do well to follow that lead.
kidcorporeal Friday, January 28 2005.
As a person who doesn't visit a dance club, this article is too crytic. The author assumes everyone knows what he is talking about and went into details without a proper introduction. Correct me if I am wrong. I assume the term "House Music" means the music played and choosen by the DJ in a dance club and is characteristic to a given establishment. Similar to "House Salad" in a restaurant.
- The article is a little cryptic. House music is a particular, relatively early genre of electronic dance music. It's not like the "house style" o, say, a winery or restaurant (though there are of course dance clubs which do specialise in house music). I'm going to give this article a serious edit to make it less confusing for the uninitiated. --Robert Merkel
Some dates and names would be nice as well. HJH
See House music/History of House Music.
- The link above is outdated. The history section has been incorporated into the main article House music. --Lexor 07:35, 5 Oct 2003 (UTC)
[edit] Happy House
I removed this:
-
- Happy House: Similar to ultra house, but with female vocals typically singing the virtures of being happy and in love. Happy House started in 1984-1985 in east Los Angeles as the girlfriends of gangsters wanted to listen to pretty music about love and romance and happyness instead of rap, violence, and the criminal lifestyle. By late 1987 Canada was also heavily producing this type of music. Now a big part of "rave music".
paragraph, because I'm not sure of it's accuracy, I've always associated "happy house" with happy hardcore which is more UK phenomenon than a LA one, and it's relationship to rave also seems a little off. Also, the "gangsters & girlfriends" section is very dubious to me needs NPOV-ing at the very least. Anybody want to take a stab? --Lexor 07:41, 3 Sep 2003 (UTC)
[edit] Happy House
I am glad you removed that. That is the most ridiculous speculative nonsense I have ever heard. Happy sounding house music was a natural evolution as DJs play what the crowd reacts well to, and house music crowds in the 90s wanted happy music. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Epic.group (talk • contribs) 09:22, 8 April 2007 (UTC).
[edit] Terribly U.K.-centric
It's hard to take any article on house music that devotes less than a sentence to Larry Levan or Shep Pettibone remotely seriously. There's not even a mention of David Cole, David Morales, Jellybean Benitez, Danny Tenaglia, Louie Vega, just to mention a few of the many glaring omissions. I find it ironic that an article that at one point comments on UK clubs refusal to hire black DJs then proceeds to nonchalantly whitewash the history of a music genre with long and abiding roots in black, latino and gay urban US communities. Maybe it would be worthwhile to separate this page into US house and European house; since as an hispanic New Yorker who has spun house since 1993 and danced to it since the days of the Garage and later Sound Factory, I can't say I recognize the music and culture I've loved for almost 20 years in the text of this article. -J.T. 66.30.27.69 17:55, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
- Thats because your lookin in the wrong article for Jellybean... go look at Freestyle house. As for the rest they are mentioned in other sub-genre articles. ALKIVAR™
02:47, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
- I think he is referring to the "Ministry of Sound" kind of House, Ibiza style, the one we get here in Europe and that is very spread, played in all the clubs. My vision of house music is very far from the one I see in the article, and I am all for dividing the article in European House and U.S. House, two genres that, I believe, have totally diverged. Andrea G.
- Well again when you say Euro vs US theres multiple different styles... Ibiza style = mostly Trance/Tech Trance ... MoS style is mostly Hard House/Speed Garage ... Then theres late 90s-Modern Euro (think stuff like Captain Hollywood Project)... This is why we have things like List of electronic music genres hell in the House subcategory I see 23 subgenres!!! Theres just too damn many subgenres to mention every freakin major dj in this article. Some people are just going to have to be disappointed that their favorite DJ isnt listed. ALKIVAR™ 20:03, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
- I totally disagree that the Ibiza style is different from the MoS style. Most of the clubs in Ibiza and Formentera, as well as in Italy (Milan and Rimini, Riccione), as well as in Greece (Mykonos, Santorini) play the music that you find in the MoS Ibiza compilations, and they call it house. It is different than Trance/Techno, that you can still find in Ibiza and in Italy, but it is not to be confused with House. It's different, perhaps your view of the matter is influenced by your experience in the USA, or wherever you live. --Andrea G.
- Well again when you say Euro vs US theres multiple different styles... Ibiza style = mostly Trance/Tech Trance ... MoS style is mostly Hard House/Speed Garage ... Then theres late 90s-Modern Euro (think stuff like Captain Hollywood Project)... This is why we have things like List of electronic music genres hell in the House subcategory I see 23 subgenres!!! Theres just too damn many subgenres to mention every freakin major dj in this article. Some people are just going to have to be disappointed that their favorite DJ isnt listed. ALKIVAR™
- I think he is referring to the "Ministry of Sound" kind of House, Ibiza style, the one we get here in Europe and that is very spread, played in all the clubs. My vision of house music is very far from the one I see in the article, and I am all for dividing the article in European House and U.S. House, two genres that, I believe, have totally diverged. Andrea G.
- Also, being a Dutchman myself, I can't believe there's no mention at all of the Dutch rise in dance/house music, which by the mid 90's was one of the most influential in Europe, and globally for that matter, and still is today. Where's Jaydee, Speedy J, and all the others? Anglosaxon-centric imho. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.56.88.144 (talk) 18:56, 25 January 2007 (UTC).
[edit] Seems like an excellent article to me
But then Im Brisith and I'm a DJ. I think it went into a decent amount of detail if your in any way into house music. I agree for total beginners it was maybe a little ambitious. Certainly filled in some of the blanks for me.
- If you're referring to the section at the top of the page which begins:
-
- As a person who doesn't visit a dance club, this article is too crytic.
- then it's actually a comment about the version of the article as of 3 Oct 2001!! The article has progressed quite considerably since then (see the edit history) and is considerably less cryptic (I hope). This is why everybody should always sign their Talk: comments with four tildes: ~~~~, otherwise you have to look at the edit history with a fine toothcomb to figure out when somebody said what. --Lexor 07:35, 5 Oct 2003 (UTC)
I removed this:
- *Progressive house:The mixing of rap rhythms with the speed of house, usually made by taking slow instrumental rap beats records and playing them at 45 speed, to achieve the intense rhythms and bass but at the higher speed usually 145 to 180 beats per minute. Also done with speed or pitch shifting computer programs.
and replaced with a modified section out of progressive music as I don't think that modified "rap rhythms" is normally thought of as the defining aspect of progressive house, usually it refers to more trance-like and epic qualities of artists such as Leftfield and BT. I think the author was referring to some of the hip-hop elements in progressive music (such as Leftfield's "Song of Life") but the way it is written seems to overemphasize this aspect. --Lexor 05:55, 7 Dec 2003 (UTC)
West Coast house should get a mention in this section. Great house dj's like Doc Martin and Jason Blakemore pioneered a soulful funky style in LA and producers HippE and Halo, who produced tracks with DJ Dan, Lance Disardi, and Wally Calerio, still release great tracks. The key record lables are Pacific Coast House, Life records, Moody and others
'Hard House' should not redirect to this main 'House' thread. 'Hard House' is more of a commercial derivative of Techno than house. If it does direct here then there should be an explanation of the difference between the various spin-off sub-genres: tech house, hard house, speed garage.
There is also a whole article called 'hard house' (non-caps) that is different from the redirect from 'Hard House' (caps first letters).
--Wonky Techno 20:55, 28 Mar 2006 (GMT)
not that you likely care but HippE and Halo came from Boston originally. --- There's no mention in the article of the Warehouse club in Chicago , where DJ Frankie Knuckles play an eclectic mix of fast American disco and European electronic music. It's from this club's name that the word "house" music comes from.
Jesse Saunder's "On and On" was released 1983 and was here before "Your Love". Check Discogs.com for proof.
UK Garage developed later, growing in the underground club scene from drum and bass ideas. Aimed more for dancing than listening, it produced distinctive tunes like "Double 99" from Ripgroove in 1997. Gaining popularity amongst clubbers in Ibiza, it was re-imported to the UK and in a softened form had chart success: soon it was being applied to mainstream acts like Daniel Bedingfield and Victoria Beckham.
In the above part I changed Daniel Bedingfield to another relevant example (Liberty X). This is because garage was not applied to an already commercial Bedingfield, but Bedingfield actually gained fame because of the underground success of "Gotta Get Thru This".
DJ Skippy
[edit] Moog Correction
I don't know the best way to correct this but it's listed that the Moog was a Sampler and it wasn't - it was just a synthesizer
Any Suggestions? Lochok 13:25, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
- You seem to be making a couple of mistakes here... 1) there is no such thing as "The Moog" ... Moog manufactured over 100 different products over the years (since all are hand assembled there are even variations among similar models) 2) Moog DID MAKE SAMPLERS! However Moog is best known for its Analog synths. In my opinion I see nothing in need of correction. ALKIVAR™ 20:07, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
[edit] House music in Italy and Europe
I find this article too much US centric and pessimistic. I'm Italian and I can say that here, the best clubs are House clubs, and generally House is the most danced genre. It is indeed even in expansion thanks too DJs like Tommy Vee, T&F Moltosugo, Alex Neri, Claudio Coccoluto, etc... Almost every radio channel has a weekly House chart, and there are many radio stations airing exclusively House Music (like RadioStudioPiù) and they are very popular especially in Norther and Central Italy, with the big party towns, with the big clubs, being mostly on the Adriatic Riviera and around the lakes area. Most danced House genres are Funky House, Happy House, Commercial House, Techno House, Tribal House.
I think that the House phenomenon has been imported and relaunched in all Europe. It's the next big thing, very popular; it's not going to die anytime soon, that's why I think the article is misleading. Thanks, Andrea G.
[edit] Delisted GA
There are no images. slambo 17:34, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
- I'm confused about this comment/reason. Was this article about a musical form was removed from the Good Articles list because it doesn't have any images? What kind of images would have to be included and what kind of images would even represent House Music? Sorry if this is obvious and I'm clueless about it. Locker 10:07, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] House Music Declassing
I think that the main reason for the declassing of the House Music article from the Good Article List is the divergence in our point of views. I think that House Music has a different meaning for an European (including British) and for an American. I think we should do something about this... Let's start discussing! --giandrea
I agree with this point entirely. The problem seems to be that Americans think of mostly "Chicago House' and assume the genre is dead. In reality the genre has swept the world and Grown so much that it cannot be identified without a vast historical perspective. Trying to define House is like trying to define Rock and Roll: it's a lot easier in theory than in practice. I think a strong distinction of Chicago House is essential, as that genre is more easily identified and is the basis for all else.--Tednor 22:44, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] History Of House
As mentioned from a couple of others, I think the article glosses over the early history of house music, the importance of vocal stylings, and its origins from disco a bit too much. Much more information needs to be added about the influences of Larry Levan and other NYC DJs from the 1970s. One of the most common misconceptions about house music is that it and disco music are like 'night' and 'day' and that couldn't be further from the truth. Also, I think a bit more info about the U.S. DJs and about commercial house. You can't tell me there wasn't a single influential house track to come out of the U.S. between 1992 and 2000 - I can hardly believe that!
The information about the decline of the industry after 2000 is right on the mark. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. Something is causing it to decline and that reasoning is the best I've seen so far. Higher prices, no innovation in the music (when DJs had always been innovating in the past), and a younger generation that seems less interested.
-- Matt M., 08:50, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] 'Classic (genre-defining/-representing) house records' section
Someone seems to have added a lot of seemingly random house records into this section. They should either be given a description saying exactly why they're 'classic (genre defining/-representing)', or removed. BillyH 09:04, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Eurodance?
I was thinking of a facelift for Eurodance], a template for Eurodance acts etc, when I noticed a lot of artists are classified as House and Eurodance too. Now, my definition of Eurodance is more like I know if it's Eurodance if listen to it, or from Digitally Imported broadcasts; I also noticed that artists like Nana or Leila K are clasified as Eurodance, though I can't see why, as they don't sound like 2 Brothers on the 4th Floor. The artists who ruled the East European clubs of my teen years and who AFAIK ruled the charts in The Netherlands, Germany, Sweden, Denmark between 1992 and 1997, all of them defining Eurodance personalities, are not included on the House page, but only on the expanded list.
I wonder what is Eurodance and accordingly what should be its Wikipedia future. Should it be listed as a derivative or subset of House? (still Leila K does not belong there). Should it be promoted to independent genre? (Then a lot of the House list goes away) Should it be considered a category under a different classification?
It felt as a forced categorization when we put together Dr Alban, Pandora, Maxx, Mr. President, 2 Unlimited, Ace of Base, and even Modern Talking under the same Eurodance label. But House seems even more inclusive. Madonna? --Luci_Sandor (talk, contribs) 
10:18, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] The Warehouse
The location given for The Warehouse club in Chicago says Jefferson Street. But I believe it was specifically 738 W. Randolph (near Halstead). I saw this address on old school flyers on the website www.deephousepage.com. So if it's okay I'll change it. - Milk 09:39, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] It wasn't Chip E!
Frankie Knuckles may not have produced the first house tracks but the genre got its name from the venue he played at. People would go to The Warehouse to dance to his music, and eventually people would refer to it as the House, and when they went to cd stores to buy the music he was playing they began to ask for House music, as in music that Knuckles would spin at the Warehouse. And then as Ron Hardy joined the scene and tracks began to be produced that started to form House as we know it the name carried on. - Bajeda
- I thought it was Knuckles or someone else asking a venue owner/manager what the music was called...or the word developed from other DJs. -- max rspct leave a message 01:53, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
--- I heard of Knuckles asking a store manager what House music was since it advertised having it, and then finding it meant music played at his venue. I got my information from "Last Night A DJ Saved My Life: The History of the Disc Jockey" in the House chapter. They have interviews with alot of House DJs including Knuckles and Chip E so thats where I got the idea. - Bajeda
- Can you please quote from the book? We can put it in article then. I will trawl though the books I have here. Cheers -- max rspct leave a message 23:49, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Music for nightclubs
Yes, the broadest common term for music in nightclubs is Club Music. It encompasses every form of dance music that gets airplay in nightclubs.
[edit] Music for nightclubs
Please, make me a favour. before reverting my hard work, take a moment to read the texts that I linked from my user page. I'm not putting my personal opinion here, because i don't have any. Some of you really seem to be unaware of the most important issue in an encyclopedia: articles must be logically interconnected and not inconsistent. Now, we have dozens of well written articles on popular music genres and subgenres, but they just miss a bit of logic in definition. I'm trying to fix it. Please do not forget that slang is a bit different from official language. You cant come here and say prink-prank-dumb-whazzup-m8. Does that get into your brains? I'm only trying to make all these articles suitable for the next WP CD. Being an eclectic, that means that I love all music, I can give a neutral contribution. I can change my mind at any moment, but please let me begin my work. Do you have a better term that includes all the music genres that are played in nightclubs? This term may even be House, Techno, or whatever is reached here by consensus, I don't really care. For now I'm working on club music, it seems a good idea. Brian W 01:12, 5 June 2006 (UTC
- They ARE logically connected and consistent right now. You, however, want to link them together under a neologism you appear to have pulled from the air and can't provide any back up for, other than your friends apparently using it. Attacking what you see as informal language when attempting to promote a non-existant "genre" to replace tens of others is hyprocisy of the highest order.
- Additionally, you don't actually appear to know what music is played in nightclubs, because EDM is not it.
- As goes your references - two texts by the same author, one 7, one 26 years old, do not provide a remit to invent a new genre because you want, in your eyes, a more "logical connection". --Kiand 01:19, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Again , you need to study some Logic and Linguistics, I'm not inventing anything, the term Club music is being used DJs in all Europe since 20 years ago. Any CD or vinyl record with remixed version of pop and dance songs is a proof.
Cant you understand that? Where are you from, really? Do you live in a castle outside the world or maybe you are italian? Im realizing that you either 1)are not reading at all my texts or 2) you aren't able to understand them. So, please kid, go to bed.Brian W 01:47, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- No, they said "club mix" - occasionally at that. Having a collection of vinyl from that era to this day, the usually say "dance mix". The DJs themselves have never used the term.
-
- Me too, I have a collection, I began in 1978, you werent born yet, likely. They are reported as "Club edits" on covers. Do not lie here, a lot of people willrealize that what you dsay is falseBrian W 02:46, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- In what languages, and on what record labels?. Does your collection continue anywhere close to the modern day? Considering your repeated call to use "logic", you appear to be abusing logic by trying to bridge the idea of a "club mix" of non-EDM to "Club music" == EDM. And please, use indents dammit. --Kiand 02:51, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- Me too, I have a collection, I began in 1978, you werent born yet, likely. They are reported as "Club edits" on covers. Do not lie here, a lot of people willrealize that what you dsay is falseBrian W 02:46, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- And no, I'm Irish, which is exactly what my user page says. I'm neither a Nazi nor an Italian (I'm not sure how you think thats an insult, though). --Kiand 01:50, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
I see you pretend you cant understand english. It's a typical fascist-eurocentric attitude trying to rewrite the history and hide the contribute of Americans to House and modern dance music. Kraftwerk didnt invent the House and the Techno, dont you understand that? I bought "the man machine" almost 30 years ago, and I can proof with any logical mean that it has nothing to do with house. If we want to talk about the history of synthesizers and recording methods, then it's another story, and actually some techniques of german electronic music can be found in modern dance music, not the spirit or the content. you are deliberately misunderstanding every single word I say. Brian W 02:48, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- Repost from my talk page, again I see. Post once, not twice. --Kiand 02:51, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
You two need to take a Wikibreak before an administrator gives you both involuntary ones. Please note WP:NPA and WP:3RR. — ceejayoz talk 19:16, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Logical inconsistency: House is reported both as a "subgenre" of Disco (see template), and of Electronic Music (see template). Some "guys" need to keep calm their exagerate ego. Brian W 03:45, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
- Oddly enough, you tried to claim that all those genres were "subgenres" of "Club Music", so I can't see how you were able to comprehend the possibility that something might be connected to two things at once then, and now can't. --Kiand 11:17, 19 June 2006 UTC
- Electronic Music is an idiomatic expression that may mean, depending on the context, either the genre of academic and experimental electronic music' or the technique of performing music by mean of electronic devices; the latter, this technique, is used in any music genre. This "disambiguation" applies to many european languages such as English, German, French, Spanish, Italian. Brian W 12:41, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Lime
The bit about Lime seems a little bit subjective. It sounds like the author REALLY likes Lime. Perhaps someone might want to have a look at this. Also, there is plenty of colloquial language, especially in this bit: "It's impossible to nail down a moment in time when Lime started sounding like a kissing cousin of House Mix. Most would agree that by the time 1984's "Angel Eyes" single had hit the clubs, they had one foot in the house." I'm not sure about any of this and recommend it for advanced editing.
[edit] Daft Punk
i'm not an expert about house by any means, yet i was surprised to find no reference to Daft Punk in the current section. are not they the most popular house act of all time?
[edit] Daft Punk
Thats a tough one- because there are so many contribuitors to house. There are the DJs, the Remixers, the artists whose music gets remixed.... and the artists who get remixed can range from Dolly Parton to Smashing Pumpkins to Gloria Estefan. So to say anyone is the most popular act is tricky- because there are so many kinds of artists and roles for them, and they all overlap, increasing their significance. It's really tough to say —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Epic.group (talk • contribs) 09:33, 8 April 2007 (UTC).
But aren't they at the forefront of Filter House? Hell I've even heard it called French House. Their influence can already be heard in newer smaller acts. Digitalism comes to mind. (129.97.253.186 (talk) 05:34, 26 May 2008 (UTC))
[edit] Madonna?
I was surprised to see her in the list of essential house songs. I don't really remember her song Vogue, but does it really fall under House? I would think pop would be a more accurate label, even if it has some House influences. I dunno...
(At the time of the record's release, it was heralded as House entering the mainstream by a USA Today article. Shep Pettibone was interviewed and he cut to the chase by defining house this way: "It's really Disco, but no one's calling it that". The Four on the floor bass drum, the bass line, snare drum sequencing, and the sampled horn stabs that sound VERY much like a certain MFSB recording are all of the house ilk. Prior to Vogue, I had heard an early Junior Vasquez track on what I think was a Warlock records compilation and it sounded very close to what would make Vogue stand out with the use of the Synth and disco-orchestral samples. Junior is credited in the singles "Thank You"s, but no specification of what he offered is given). If you could hear the Junior track and then the Madonna, it would wipe out all doubts I assure you--Tednor 21:50, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
Also, "pop" is a catch all label for any music that is popular (I'm assuming from your usage of the word). So if a House record becomes popular, does it cease to be house? (In reality "Pop" refers to the Pop vocal tradition of Sinatra, Streisand, etc.)
[edit] Madonna?
I think the list of essential house songs just needs to be bigger and more comprehensive. Vogue was house. And it really did a lot to open radio airwaves to the house sound. Vogue was huge for Shep Pettibone, and in fact, it boosted Junior Vasquez' profile as well (he's thanked in the credits on the single). So yes, Vogue does belong there. But it belongs there with about 30 or 40 more key songs. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Epic.group (talk • contribs) 09:28, 8 April 2007 (UTC).
[edit] Citation needed
What statements in the article need to be cited? Hyacinth 17:08, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
Someone may want to consider removing the link to "www.house-mania.com" as a resource site. The site is an ad page and has very little information about House.
Re: Producers using sampled drum sounds. At the advent of Chicago House music, digital samplers were yer to become affordable to the class of producer making the records. It is obvious from listening that drum machines were used for this purpose and not sampling. Regarding "filling" out the spectrum: this was acheived (by the few who sought to do so) by carefully synching the bass notes over the kick drum, just as live disco rhythm sections had done in Disco Music. One famous record not mentioned here: Frankie Goes to Hollywood's "Relax",on which Trevor Horn used a low G from the bass right on top of the kick. Everyone assumed he had some magical drum sound but that's all it was: a G. If someone wants to put that record in I do believe it's more influential than some of the ones noted. --Tednor 22:15, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Frankie Knuckles and Larry Leven
The opening of this is way off. The fact is Frankie Knuckles was the resident dj spining at the Warehouse. Then the writer includes Larry Heard, aka "Mr. Fingers" as saying House got its name because DJs were creating music in their house using simple equipment such as synthesizers and drum machines. I have heard a lot of BS but this is one of the best! I have also heard about the labeling of records, "as heard at the Warehouse". That one may hold water, but the Knuckles was spinning the stuff!
Leven should be mentioned more. He was the first choice for the Warehouse but didn't want to leave NYC. Thus he he was spinning at the Garage. And like knuckles House, Leven's became, Garage. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 146.130.73.112 (talk) 17:28, 7 February 2007 (UTC).
[edit] Name Change To House (music)?
It would make more sense.......? Any comments in response on my talk page would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!100110100 13:36, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] MY Definition of House Music
Can we just change the article to read "House Music is a universal language"? Gatesofawesome! 00:30, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
- No. Andy Mabbett 09:23, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Seriously this article needs help
It seems from the article that the writer is either bicoastal (London-NY) or from London. It also seems they're from the "old guard" of people who were around for the birth of house, and now they're unhappy that the music and scene has changed. House is not dead. It has been resilient while many other forms of dance music have come and gone as trends. I've never heard half the terms this guy uses and for some of the early stuff maybe Ill take the word of someone who was there. But it does seem this guy took the article too far in turning it into a partial biogrpahy of his own life as a music fan.
There is almost nothing on Junior Vasquez, Shep Pettibone, Clivilles & Cole - three of the most important contributors to the evolution of modern house. I wasnt there from the beginning so I can't comment on who the most important of those people were but from Shep onward i know a lot, and no discussion of house in the 90s should be devoting any less than a paragraph to each of those three names.
There is way too much emphasis on the pre-90s stuff, which is nice to know about since it is the origins, but let's be honest with ourselves. The genre changed dramatically in the course of the 90s, and eventually reached a point where as a genre things leveled off and stabilized (what some may call a "decline" in the music, is really just a genre reaching a point where all the creative extremes have been tried, and from there what drives the genre is the artists and producers and talent instead of wild shifts in the genre overall. Many of the more enduring genres in popular music have gone through that and they are all vital and huge industries unto themselves. So the author's bias against the newer house sound may be part of why they ignore such huge parts of house music's history. Clearly they have some sort of grudge about the major label house music of the 1990s and later, but those releases are and were House Music, many of them immensely influential, and deserve to have that explained. Not only were many DJs and remixers important but so were recording artists. Ce Ce Peniston was important. Mariah Carey has been a HUGE contibutor to house music working with David Morales and getting him grammy recognition, she was working with Clivilles & Cole on her ALBUMS not just singles when very few artists were willing to take such a risk. What about Snap! and Black Box - contributions from Germany and Italy respectively. They were important too. Then there were other unsung pioneers like Reba McIntyre and Dolly Parton opening the door for country artists to do house remixes with Love To Infinity and Junior Vasquez- that CERTAINLY made an impact- getting country artists to do house! If they hadn't done that, Leann Rimes probably wouldnt have released a full fledged remix ALBUM a few years ago- but she did because others paved the foundation for her. That is the kind of stuff you need to say when you are talking about a genres' evolution!
As far as the changing club scene at the end of the 90s, there are cultural factors and some of those do belong in the article. But many of the things in this author's article appear to be speculative at best. One GLARING omission is any mention of Rudy Giuliani's 'war on nightlife' in the late 90s that put so many great clubs out of business and the impact that had on the scene in NY.
The author focuses instead on over-commercialization as some sort of reason the music wasnt as cutting edge any more, but fails to recognize that every genere of significance goes through cycles of that, such as alternative rock, jazz, pop, R&B and even Hip Hop.... which negates the notion that commercialization destroys genres or renders them less appealing. Truth be told, Freestyle would still be huge if they had kept it on the radio. They stopped playing it in clubs because there was no radio platform for it any more. You have to have mainstream to sustain the underground and vice versa. They're mutually dependent. House music is still a giant part of the music industry. They still play it in clubs. The scene has definitely changed. But its still there and it does appeal to people of any age.
- "Seriously this article needs help" - help it, then. Andy Mabbett 09:23, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Chicago and House Music
The Chicago section should definately include WBMX, the Hot Mix Five, Steve Hurley, Larry Heard, Marshall Jefferson and Adonis, these institutions and individuals gave this music its foundation and platform to become what it has.
Whomever edited this out before either has no idea of the significance that Chicago played in this genre of music, or has a grudge. To do a short blurb about Chicago and House Music would be akin to NOT mentioning the Bronx when discussing Hip Hop User:DJ Black Adam
--BENJI ESPINOZA 08:47, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] "Other meanings"
The short paragraph about front of house doesn't belong in this article, Wikipedia articles are meant to be on single topics... but I'm undecided about where to move it to. Either start a new article (although this would be little more than a dicdef) or move it to Front of house somehow... or just remove it altogether? It's unreferenced, after all. - Zeibura (Talk) 18:57, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Once Again someone has butchered Chicago
No mention of the influence of Italo Disco on the genre in Chicago, and Larry Heards music was "House", "Deep House" refered to the music played by Ron Hardy, Gene Hunt and Lil Louis (etc) in the more underground clubs which included disco, disco remixes and rawer music than played on Chicago Radio. Again, whomever keeps doing this biased and uninformed edits better try researching Chicago. Further, Detroit Techno gets no mention, that needs to be rectifed and will be. User:DJ Black Adam
[edit] Neuterd Chicago and minimized Detroit techno
Again, some Eurocentric British hyperbole has been injected, and further, Detroit Techno gets reduced to "proto techno"? I will get back to this as soon as possibleUser:DJ Black Adam
[edit] Factually disputable final paragraph in this article "2000s"
The first sentence of the final paragraph of this article:
"House music declined in popularity during the 2000s, due to a combination of factors."
and the overall tone of this final paragraph is factually disputable and should be re-phrased. There are no documented facts or statistics presented to confirm the validity of this paragraph. In its current state, it reads like pure opinion.
An alternative approach would be to provide documentation as to the actual popularity of the various electronic dance music styles. However, that is obviously difficult to quantify, in terms of statistical evidence. If that evidence is available it should be found. However, if it cannot, the final paragraph of the article needs to be more generic in nature, perhaps similarly as follows:
"Whereas House music has garnered increasing competition from additional electronic dance genres, like hip-hop, the overall evolution and popularity of House music has seemed to continue to this day. House music is still esteemed by many in the electronic music profession to be the most popular style of dance music, and it can still be heard in a large majority of club venues worldwide in all of its evolved forms."
It would be nice to be able to quantify the popularity of the genre, but I think that would be difficult, if not impossible at this time. As a professional House musician I have not seen a significant decline in the popularity of House music in any of the major cities worldwide. Rather, all styles of electronic dance music seem to have increased in popularity, the result of this seeming to be a change in the overall percentage representation of the various genres as opposed to a strict numerical decline in one genre over another. Furthermore, the number of House DJs continues to proliferate in ever increasing numbers.
In terms of released dance tracks, House still seems to be at the top of its game, and on any given Billboard or BBC dance chart, the majority of tracks are still House-based. The problem with trying to "pigeonhole" the popularity of House music lies in the fact that House music tends to absorb the musical styles of the other genres around it. It is an ever-evolving style of music and because of this it cannot be said to be "in decline" in any specific terms. Rather, it would be best to follow a more balanced approach to portray what is going on in the world of House music today. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tpleiman (talk • contribs) 21:48, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm sorry but what you have written there is just as opinionated as the current page. I agree with you though that this section should be re-written. This section could maybe be used to document the shift in house music to the more "electro" sound that we hear today (fedde le grande, eric prydz for example) that seems to dominate the dance charts in Europe. I would say that the popularity in house music has not declined and is, in fact, having some what of a resurgence with this new wave of electro music that is being played in clubs around the country. Dave clark86 (talk) 20:23, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Chicago Needs More Representation
There are numerous points pertaining to Chicago and House music missing from the article. Not only was House a staple of every Chicagoan on a Fiday and Saturday night, blasting from car radios on 102.7 BMX, or 107.5 WGCI, and even later on 96.3 "B"96, the word is synonomous with Chicago during the 80's and 90's, and crossed all cultural and racial boundaries.
I see no mention of Mike "Hitman" Wilson, Frankie "Hollywood" Rodriquez, Tim "Spinning" Schomer, Mario "Smoking" Diaz, Julian "Jumpin'" Perez, and Bad Boy Bill. These men should all get credit, though not part of the original Hot Mix 5 lineup, they were gifted and talented DJ's, who were on the tips of every teenagers tongues during the era.
All modern dance music, from acid to trance to rave to techno originated with the basic House beat. Going to begin adding more information about the Chicago scene as soon as time permits. peace 69.209.225.253 (talk) 21:41, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Self Promotion
Deleted references to "This dance club owned by me was modeled after such-and-such." It's a MUSIC article, not a club promo! -Jack
