Talk:Guzheng

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[edit] External links

Please see: Wikipedia:External_links and Wikipedia:Spam for wikipedia policy on External links.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:External_links

1.3 What should not be linked to:

1.3.3. Links that are added to promote a site, by the site operator or its affiliates. See External link spamming.

1.3.4. Sites that primarily exist to sell products or services.

LDHan 14:21, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fingering/Technique/Method of play

An anonymous user has added the following (hopefully somebody can decide if it is worth including in the article, and fix it if so):

The many ways are playing the guzheng are...

Gou Tuo Mou Tuo: The first 4 fingers of the right hand are used to pluck the strings.

Da Cuo, Xiaocuo: Da Cuo is the pluck 2 similar strings of different octaves with your thumb and middle finger, Xiaocuo is to use your 2nd finger and thumb, this is more commonly used when you want to pluck string from the same octave.

Pi: Pi stands for to cut, with your thumb, you make an outward movement with your thumb.

Tuo: When you Tuo, you use either your thumb or 2nd finger to glide over a few strings simultaneously.

Gua, Huazhi, Luanzhi: These 3 words are classified under glissandos which is used to represent wind,waterfalls or such.

Yao Zhi: When you yaozhi, your 2nd finger and thumb interlock together to form an "ok" sign and you lift your pinky over the string's side and shake your finger to repeat the note over and over again.

Sao Yao: Same as yaozhi, just that you omit the pinky part and shake normally.

I think it will do well if it was formatted into a table form, with Chinese. So far, it is rather messy. --Charlie Huang【正矗昊】 17:48, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Too many commerical and promtional edits and links

This article is full of commerical and promtional edits and links, most of them by User:petrm concerning Zou Lunlun and her commercial website. All wiki edits by User:petrm [[1]] relate to guzheng, Zou Lunlun, and Hong Kong, so I suspect User:petrm to be either Zou Lunlun herself or more probably a business partner. LDHan 23:01, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

I have made some edits to reduce commerical and promtional content and to improve NPOV. LDHan 14:53, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

then thet shack thier ass and boggy to the music.¥{{}}ČɴÃ

While this article does provide some minimal information to the main topic 'guzheng', most of the content seems to be written to directly promote Zou Lunlun, a local private guzheng teacher of Hong Kong and indirectly Peter Kahl, Zou Lunlun's husband. Both has claimed association with promoting Xu Zhen Gao and Wang Chuan Yuan. While there are many photographs of guzheng composer Wang Chuan Yuan, her article at Wikipedia is taken with Zou Lunlun. [User: Clearlens]

I don't really think the main content of the article at the moment is promotional or POV. But there are still some external spam links to commercial websites, I think they should be removed, I wonder what others think? LDHan 20:24, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

There has been an issue with the www.masterxu.com link. Please see: http://starvoid.proboards30.com/index.cgi?board=Guzheng&action=display&thread=1116774637 for full discussion. --Charlie Huang 【正矗昊】 17:46, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this up. There have been attempts to reduce commerical and promtional content and links in this article, but anon users (all with Hong Kong IP addresses) have repeatedly re-inserted the same links to a related group of commerical websites. LDHan 18:48, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

The links for each zheng player are good; the problem is that an anon keeps deleting other links, putting their own links above all others, misidentifying personal sites as "guzheng knowledge" sites, etc. Badagnani 18:52, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

WHOAH! Just read the thread at the Da Zheng forum. That's bad news! Badagnani 19:13, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Tut tut! Believe you me, my forumship probably initiated the whole affair! I find it slightly dodgy for using articles to promote oneself. Even I'm not that daring to promote myself for the guqin one, just a picture of myself to illustrate the topic (avoiding asking my peers for their photos/copyright issues)... We should think about putting one of those tags that blocks those who are not registered from modifying it. It is considered spam/vandalism, is it not? Charlie Huang 【正矗昊】 on a work computer. --212.115.41.39 14:41, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I think that such a tag might be a good idea, although I’m not sure if it’ll stop the spam/vandalism. At first I thought he/she just didn’t know about wiki’s policy on this but now that he/she is doing it repeatedly unsigned, he/she must be aware of what they are doing and is just blatantly disregarding the good faith of all wiki users. One has to wonder about the intregity of businesses who use this sort of tactic to promote themselves. Don’t they realise it just makes them seem to be disreputable?

I think in the long term these methods of marketing and promotion, including the use of commercial websites which appear to be information websites, are counterproductive. LDHan 14:28, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Hmph! They reverted the masterxu.com link yet again. Really, are they deaf/blind? I don't care what happens, just put the tag up and bar this unregistered user from reverting it. Then after, say, a month, take the tag off. They'd have pissed off by then (hopefully)... --Charlie Huang 【正矗昊】 18:59, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of pictures and edits by user:203.218.217.54 00:34, 6 February 2006

Is there a good reason why the 2 pictures were removed? LDHan 01:24, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I have reverted the edits and removal of pictures made by user:203.218.217.54 LDHan 10:25, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I guess Lunlun Zou and co. decided to remove their 'courtesy' after being found out... Charlie Huang 【正矗昊】 on work computer. --212.115.41.39 14:48, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

It was me who removed the advertising from the pictures. I have just put one the pictures back in the article, don't know how long it'll stay there though... LDHan 15:50, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, I'm going to try removing the masterxu.com link again and see what happens... --Charlie Huang 【正矗昊】 20:55, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Guzheng players

If anyone knows anything about notable Guzheng players, please add to the list, ideally with some information about each player. LDHan 20:47, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

I've added Wang Fei as she does play guzheng herself.--Charlie Huang【正矗昊】 17:44, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Master Xu

Regarding the recent edits of the "Master Xu" guzheng company link, are the guzhengs advertised as being made by Master Xu actually made by him or not? The letter written by Xu states that they are not made by him or his sons. Badagnani 07:18, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, they are not made by him, according to the declaration made by him. --Charlie Huang 【正矗昊】 19:42, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

The most recent edit (early today) made by the anon from Hong Kong alludes to a condition of slavery that the Dunhuang company is purported to keep Master Xu under. Might this imply that, if indeed he is afraid of repercussions from the company with which he's formally associated, he has written the letters stating that he has no relationship with the "Master Xu" guzheng company, whereas he is actually making guzhengs "under the table" and does not want them to find out? Just want to explore all the possibilities, as in Rashomon, the story isn't always cut and dried. Badagnani 19:46, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

I think all this speculation can be avoided simlpy by sticking to wiki policies and remove all commercial links from the article. The problem is the anon Hong Kong user(s) and the Hong Kong group of companies and websites keeps on spamming/advertising/vandalising time and time again. LDHan 20:26, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

That's one solution, but many of the websites that are both commercial and informational have really good information about the instrument (especially the performer pages). Badagnani 20:38, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

The translated declaration is here: [2]. I'm not sure whether Master Xu has been pulled into an unnecessary frenzy, but as far as I'm concerned with the legal complications, although this Master Xu website has some useful info, things can been seen as misleading or contradictory if we put both things together. This anon user is definately ignoring everything we throw at them, not even discussing the legitimacy of their constant spamming. So much so for 光明正大. Very soon, I think we'll all abandon the article in favour for more 'purer' articles... --Charlie Huang 【正矗昊】 10:52, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

These commercial websites may have some information, but the "information" is biased and very POV, as they exist to sell products and services. After all this spamming/advertising/vandalising can you really trust what they say? The article should have facts, it's not a place for busineses to advertise or to push their side of whatever dispute that might be going on. So my solution is: no commercial links what so ever. LDHan 14:55, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Also, I think the fact that wiki doesn't have advertising is very important, let's keep it that way! LDHan 17:24, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

The performer websites are good, though, as they give information about guzheng players (even if the performers are "selling" themselves and/or their CDs there). Badagnani 18:52, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I'm very suspicious of sites that advertise and promote certain things. Also, if you find people calling themselves 'master' this and 'master' that, you'd be forgiven for raising a few eye-brows. See: Talk:Contemporary Guqin players for my critique on overuse of the term 'master'. Also, don't think people should be called 'master' unless they are internationally recognised as one / are famous and dead. --Charlie Huang 【正矗昊】 22:27, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] User templates for guzheng players

I've created a set of user templates for guzheng players for them to use on their userpages, here: Category:Wikipedian guzheng players. --Charlie Huang 【正矗昊】 19:02, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wang Fei

OK, why was Wang Fei removed without good explanation? She is a known guzheng player. --Charlie Huang 【正矗昊】 17:09, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Review

There still seems to be spam and inappropriate edits to this article. Someone needs to commit themselves to completely reworking the article like I did to the guqin one. --Charlie Huang 【正矗昊】 01:48, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wood

Were guzheng always made from Firmiana platanifolia wood, or was Paulownia (Paulownia tomentosa) once used, as it still is in the koto or gayageum? Badagnani (talk) 20:31, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I honestly don't know. All the modern instruments use wu tong/firmiana platanifolia (I got the species name from New Grove). But I expect they would have once used Paulownia? Perhaps a look into the Shosoin might help... STS 08:22, 4 May 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Drummerdaemon (talk • contribs)

[edit] New instruments

To add:

[edit] 轉調箏

Add 轉調箏 (as seen at YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=%E8%BD%89%E8%AA%BF%E7%AE%8F&search_type= )

[edit] 蝴蝶筝

Add 蝴蝶筝 (as seen at http://you.video.sina.com.cn/b/5282881-1239512600.html ). Badagnani (talk) 21:52, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

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